27-Apr-2024 17:48 GMT.		 UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Anonymous, there are 115 items in your selection (but only 15 shown due to limitation) [1 - 50] [51 - 100] [101 - 115]
[Events] Nice Essen ReportANN.lu
Posted on 04-Jun-2004 13:09 GMT by Alkis Tsapanidis (Edited on 2004-06-04 19:56:11 GMT by Christophe Decanini)115 comments
View flat
View list
Here you can find a very nice and informative report of the Essen AmigaOS4 Event.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 101 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Andreas Wolf on 05-Jun-2004 10:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 98 (Sammy Nordström):
It was posted as one or several forum post(s) at the very end of a thread which was then already some days old, so maybe nobody except me recognized it.
End of last year or beginning of this one. Unfortunately I don't remember more :-(
Nice Essen Report : Comment 102 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 05-Jun-2004 11:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 100 (Andrea Maniero):
Well, AFAIK the issues involved never was as clear as black on white and more parties than just MAI were involved because they had to sort out other issues that seemed to be related, the VIA 686B and the Linux drivers for it beeing one example.

I think there is a very long and complicated story behind all this that we as bystanders could never really comprehend. From what we know, we can just conclude that Genesi decided that it was not feasible to continue cooperating and switched chipset providers while Eyetech and Hyperion decided to continue cooperating and in the end they managed to find a solution. There are drawbacks and benefits from both lines of action and which is better than the other depends entirely on the situation at hand and the circumstances involved. I really don't see the point in discussing this any further.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 103 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 05-Jun-2004 11:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 102 (Sammy Nordström):
"while Eyetech and Hyperion decided to continue cooperating and in the end they managed to find a solution"

Well, obviously bPlan doesn't even need to cooperate with MAI to fix their (MAI) chip: I think, we at least, all agree that Pegasos I with April works well.

But, bPlan did cooperate with MAI and fixed part of the problem (Teron XE users should thanks bPlan for that). However, the DMA fix is for Pegasos April users only.

Bye
Nice Essen Report : Comment 104 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 05-Jun-2004 12:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 103 (Anonymous):
>Well, obviously bPlan doesn't even need to cooperate with MAI to fix their
>(MAI) chip

Fix, workaround, hardware modification, whatever you decide to call it is highly subjective...
Nice Essen Report : Comment 105 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 05-Jun-2004 12:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 104 (Sammy Nordström):
>Fix, workaround, hardware modification, whatever you decide to call it is highly subjective...

Well, named it like you want, however, the April doesn't modify the ArticiaS hardware...
But let's forget that...

So, you agree that the Pegasos with April works ?
And then you agree that bPlan success to release a working computer based on the ArticiaS ?
And then they can't be totaly wrong about the ArticiaS "behaviour" ?
And then, you may even agree that this solution is better (faster if we look at the IDE performance) ?

Bye
Nice Essen Report : Comment 106 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 05-Jun-2004 12:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 105 (Anonymous):
>So, you agree that the Pegasos with April works ?

I don't know. According to posts made on ANN.lu by people owning such boards, it works.

>And then you agree that bPlan success to release a working computer based on
>the ArticiaS ?

I believe they switched chipset provider because the April was not a feasable solution in the long run.

>And then they can't be totaly wrong about the ArticiaS "behaviour" ?

Again, I don't know what kind of claims they have or have not made about the "behaviour" of the ArticiaS which makes it impossible for me to pass any such judgement.

>And then, you may even agree that this solution is better (faster if we look
>at the IDE performance) ?

The AmigaOS4 IDE driver has been stated to not be optimized yet and so far all tests I've seen has been made with benchmark programs running on the 68k emulator of AmigaOS4 which makes any kind of speed comparisons with the Pegasos and MorphOS rather pointless.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 107 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 05-Jun-2004 12:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (greenboy):
This isn't spin, or anything, this is what Petro told me, in person, at Essen.
This has fuck all to do with Bill Buck, infact, someone said that 'Petro & Alan agree that Bill Buck is metal & evil", i merely corrected that from a personal conversation i had (in other words, he didn't say Bill Buck is mental or evil, but he said he wasn't happy with the whole mess & doesn't want anything to do with Bill Buck) perhaps in the past they were friends, and perhaps they still are, but there's no bloody way in hell he'll do business with BBRV.

If you think this has anything to do with my issue's with BBRV then you are mistaken.

Besides, if i wanted to repeat every negative thing i've picked up about BBRV i'd be typing for hours, i don't see the point in spreading more rumors.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 108 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 05-Jun-2004 13:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (Andreas Wolf):
"It was posted as one or several forum post(s) at the very end of a thread which was then already some days old, so maybe nobody except me recognized it."

I remember it well. It was remarkably undiplomatic.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 109 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 05-Jun-2004 13:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 106 (Sammy Nordström):
"The AmigaOS4 IDE driver has been stated to not be optimized yet and so far all tests I've seen has been made with benchmark programs running on the 68k emulator of AmigaOS4 which makes any kind of speed comparisons with the Pegasos and MorphOS rather pointless."

Well, I was not speaking about the OS4 again. I think it's better to compare these 2 machines on Linux, so they use both the same software.
Therefore, under Linux, the Pegasos I seems to a better value than the AOne with the IDE workaround.
(I'm not even speaking about unpatched Linux IDE driver for AOne, even it it would reach 2Gb/s, it would be pointless has it trashes the data...).

By the way, I got 55/60 Mb/s on that test with My Pegasos II G3 with 8/10% of CPU usage.

bye
Nice Essen Report : Comment 110 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 05-Jun-2004 13:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 100 (Andrea Maniero):
"Saying something doesn't work because it uses a non standard approach is not allowed: in that case you have to give the proof it's actually working. In this case MAI should have done it by providing a fully working Linux kernel with DMA enabled."

I fully agree that they _should_ have made it work 100% with Linux, but expert coders of this type are not common, and my guess is they either didn't have one, or if they did he was not as skilled as he should have been. Either way, a very expensive mistake.

What is noticeable is the long delay in releasing further Articia chips.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 111 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 05-Jun-2004 13:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 106 (Sammy Nordström):
"The AmigaOS4 IDE driver has been stated to not be optimized yet and so far all tests I've seen has been made with benchmark programs running on the 68k emulator of AmigaOS4 which makes any kind of speed comparisons with the Pegasos and MorphOS rather pointless." 68k emulation has no impact to this particular speed test. Same 68k benchmark program was tried on MorphOS with and without JIT.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 112 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by JKD on 05-Jun-2004 13:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 90 (Sammy Nordström):
That's OK Sammy...I got it now! You just don't want to play my deduction game. I figured you were interested in the subject matter nad the result and had read as much as has been posted inpublic over the year(s)...possibly you haven't.

I like facts, I like nice simple explanations too...sometimes we have to be disappointed!
Nice Essen Report : Comment 113 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 05-Jun-2004 13:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (Anonymous):
You can't compare the Linux DMA speed on April "patched" Pegasos boards with AmigaOne boards since there still seems to be some problems with the Linux IDE drivers for the AmigaOne. Hyperion has created a working IDE driver and even if it's not yet optimized and it's difficult to tell how fast it's going to be once it's final, it's a proof of concept. They "fixed" the problem using nothing but software which seems to me like a much more feasable solution in comparison to a hardware "patch". Your insinuations that bPlan's hardware modifications would be a faster solution remains to be seen, either when someone has created a working Linux driver (Hyperion has their own OS to take care of, maybe Eyetech or MAI can come up with a working Linux driver) or when we have the final release of AmigaOS4.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 114 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by ehaines on 05-Jun-2004 13:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 97 (Don Cox):
> However, you have not run a stress test.

'Cause I don't have this computer on to stress test it; I have it on to use it. 1+ year of nearly daily use with no corrupted files and no random crashing etc. is stress test enough for me, thanks.

> As somebody pointed out, a day may come when some crucial file gets corrupted.

That's true of virtually any computer, anyway, for all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with the Articia. That's what data redundancy is for. Would I try to sell the G3SE as a server (even if they were still made)? No. For home use it's fine (not useless as the claim was), and so far has been reliable as any other computer I've used.

And BTW, I'm not trying to claim the ArticiaS is flawless or anything. Merely pointing out my actual experience, while also pointing out that those that yell most about how awful it is haven't actually used it. The more time goes by the less impressed I am with Mai, for various reasons, but nonetheless my AmigaOne doesn't behave as the trolls like to claim.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 115 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Jun-2004 07:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 110 (Don Cox):
>I fully agree that they _should_ have made it work 100% with Linux, but expert >coders of this type are not common, and my guess is they either didn't have >one, or if they did he was not as skilled as he should have been. Either way, a >very expensive mistake.

That is silly.
Ok, developers of that skillset might be rare, but they are very very easy to come by and find. Very easy.

The email address of the most knowledged linux ide device driver developers can be found by just browsing the source code. Heck, why not email directly to linus himself?

If they REALLY wanted the problem solved and they REALLY belived the hw-bug could be resolved in SW and if the REALLY thought it was important to show that yes indeed their chipset could use DMA without corrupting data then:
(assuming they understood that no DMA == dead chipset which one would assume they understood very well. How expensive is the now missing "DMA support" in their docs? How expensive is chipset==dead?)

If it is important to proove that the chipset indeed can be made to work with DMA:
Send email to the most experienced linux ide chipset drived developer there is or Linus offering :
"please help get Linux not corrupt data when DMA is used. Here is big bag of money for your efforts. No strings attached".


So it would have been very easy indeed if it was possible/desired/wanted to solve the problem.
Anonymous, there are 115 items in your selection (but only 15 shown due to limitation) [1 - 50] [51 - 100] [101 - 115]
Back to Top