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[News] What a PPC linux kernel hacker thinks about the ArticiaANN.lu
Posted on 14-Jun-2004 23:52 GMT by JohnV68 comments
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Here's what Benjamin Herrenschmidt, a respectable linuxPPC kernel hacker thinks about the Articia. <A HREF="http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2004/06/msg00430.html">Here is some interesting thread about the Articia. Note that Benjamin Herrenschmidt is a clued linuxPPC kernel hacker with lot of experience. Here's what he thinks about the Articia "features":

It's basically incompetent northbridge design.

No, that means the HW is a Piece Of Shit !

Cache coherency is a basic feature of anything claiming to be used as a desktop machine.

What a PPC linux kernel hacker thinks about the Articia : Comment 51 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Neko on 16-Jun-2004 08:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (Anonymous):
People who hold high opinion of the AmigaOne but bought a Pegasos.. hmm.. let
me see..

Michal Bergseth? Paul Rezendes?

http://www.amigaworld.org

I could reel off more names than I have fingers of people who "jumped ship",
but those two are the most "prominent" and luckily share a URL ;)

There's no shame in having both boards, really. I'd have an AmigaOne if I
thought it'd be useful to me. The prospect of an ITX board kinda rocks. I
always loved those Morex Cubid 3677 cases. It's not really in my best interests
to get one though, it'd just be another machine in my already brimming row of
machines. Besides, I don't have any ports left on my KVM :)

Neko
What a PPC linux kernel hacker thinks about the Articia : Comment 52 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jun-2004 08:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (Thomas Frieden):
IIRC this is reason why DMA coherency cant be mainained in AmigaOne and Linux. LinuxPPC is optimized to use this feature but you can't control individual cache pages.

Different flavour of LinuxPPC is needed for AmigaOne, not common PPC version. Fixing this issue is matter of recompile.

For this reason Benh was laughing for Ole-Egil. Ole suggested keeping cache coherency is not possible on Linux, but he didnt know it is possible if right version of Linux is used.
What a PPC linux kernel hacker thinks about the Articia : Comment 53 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 16-Jun-2004 09:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (Anonymous):
"laughing for"?

I know how one laughs _at_ and _with_, but laughing for me was a new one. And it isn't just a matter of recompiling.
What a PPC linux kernel hacker thinks about the Articia : Comment 54 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jun-2004 09:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Olegil):
Nevertheless there never was a bug in Linux. Someone misread ArticiaP documentation and tock wrong Linux flavour.
What a PPC linux kernel hacker thinks about the Articia : Comment 55 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Wilse on 16-Jun-2004 12:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (Neko):
"There's no shame in having both boards, really."

Oh good. I can show my face without being embarrassed. :-)
What a PPC linux kernel hacker thinks about the Articia : Comment 56 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 16-Jun-2004 12:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (Anonymous):
"Took wrong linux flavour"?

What on earth are you on about now?
What a PPC linux kernel hacker thinks about the Articia : Comment 57 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 16-Jun-2004 18:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (Wilse):
>> "There's no shame in having both boards, really."
>
> Oh good. I can show my face without being embarrassed. :-)

:-)

Actually, I have an A1 board here now too! :-O

It's not mine though (not yet at least), but I am very curious to see what all this "fuss" about OS4 is about.
;-)

Stay tuned ...
What a PPC linux kernel hacker thinks about the Articia : Comment 58 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 17-Jun-2004 04:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (steve-o^):
beer influenced post?
What a PPC linux kernel hacker thinks about the Articia : Comment 59 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 17-Jun-2004 06:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (takemehomegrandma):
"Actually, I have an A1 board here now too! :-O"

How's that spelled... "Lucky bastard"? :)
What a PPC linux kernel hacker thinks about the Articia : Comment 60 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 17-Jun-2004 09:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (Emeric SH):
"just bastard"?

"unlucky bastard?"
What a PPC linux kernel hacker thinks about the Articia : Comment 61 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Gregg on 17-Jun-2004 12:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (hooligan/dcs):
"Poor bastard", shurely?

Gregg
What a PPC linux kernel hacker thinks about the Articia : Comment 62 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 17-Jun-2004 13:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 61 (Gregg):
I agree. An AmigaOne is not going to change the fact that he has a Pegasos. "Poor bastard" it is... ;-)
What a PPC linux kernel hacker thinks about the Articia : Comment 63 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by amino acid on 17-Jun-2004 18:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (Sammy Nordström):
come now spamface, anyone with a Pegasos is less poor than anyone with an Amigaone as the Pegasos is half the price...

Or is numeracy like logic for you, just out of reach.
What a PPC linux kernel hacker thinks about the Articia : Comment 64 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Lasse Bodilsen on 17-Jun-2004 19:39 GMT
So basicly what this Benjamin Herrenschmidt is saying, Is that the ArticaS is NOT a buggy chip?

It might be a poor design, a shit component compared to similar Apple parts. But it´s not Buggy?.

Neat, it seems someone was right all along then!

regards
Lasse Bodilsen
What a PPC linux kernel hacker thinks about the Articia : Comment 65 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Nicolas Sallin on 17-Jun-2004 20:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Lasse Bodilsen):
You can also say than when some software deadlocks, it's not buggy but simply badly designed.
What a PPC linux kernel hacker thinks about the Articia : Comment 66 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by minator on 18-Jun-2004 12:43 GMT
I think the problem is they never updated the chip.
All electronic components of this complexity have bugs, most companies have no problem admitting it.

i.e. this is from a quick google:

The Pentium 4 processor may contain design defects or errors known as errata which may cause the product to deviate from published specifications.
This section documents product errata for AMD Opteron processors
PowerPC 750GX Microprocessor. Errata Notice
Revision A Chip Errata, MOTOROLA

They fix these with revisions called "steppings" so over time the bugs get removed.
Sometimes they'll issue a workaround in software (revisions can be very expensive).

MAI for some strange reason seem to consider themselves immune to this and and instead of doing what the rest of the IC industry does, have not done multiple revisions. Quite why this is is something of a mystery but you can see the effects and it's certainly not doing their business any good.


In case you're wondering yes, Marvell do admit and fix their bugs.
What a PPC linux kernel hacker thinks about the Articia : Comment 67 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 19-Jun-2004 07:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 66 (minator):
"They fix these with revisions called "steppings" so over time the bugs get removed.
Sometimes they'll issue a workaround in software (revisions can be very expensive).

MAI for some strange reason seem to consider themselves immune to this and and instead of doing what the rest of the IC industry does, have not done multiple revisions."

What makes you say that? I understood there had been revisions of the Articia chip. Bear in mind that it has only been produced in small quantities.
What a PPC linux kernel hacker thinks about the Articia : Comment 68 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 19-Jun-2004 10:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (Don Cox):
Only 2 revisions, the second being released only after the issue got messy, in
public.
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