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[Forum] Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OSANN.lu
Posted on 30-Jul-2001 10:09 GMT by Ben Yoris/Hyperion322 comments
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Ben Hermans expresses Hyperion's official position about Amithlon.
Please read below (details section).
Regards,
Ben Yoris
PR Hyperion Entertainment Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS

Following the recent article in AmigActive and the announcement of the «Amithlon» product at Amiwest, we received quite a number of e-mails of people asking us our opinion about the desirability of a x86 AmigaOS as opposed to a PPC native OS.

Would we support it? What would be the consequences of a native x86 for Amiga developers?

In one word: disastrous. A native x86 Amiga OS would spell the end of all serious commercial development for Amiga OS.

Before we argue our point, let’s get a number of things out of the way here first:

The fact that Hyperion specialises in porting software for Windows has no bearing on our position because the Amiga market is only of marginal economic importance to us.

We moreover do not wish to be drawn into a debate about the respective merits of the PPC versus x86 architectures. Both CPU families deliver the goods in terms of performance and have their respective strengths and weaknesses. Unparalleled multimedia performance (Altivec), low power consumption and a clear 64 bit upgrade path for the PPC family and rapid development, raw horse-power and low price-point for the x86 family.

We also do not want to belittle the technical feats accomplished by VMC: their Amithlon product is technically impressive and very fast.

It also holds the danger of ending all serious commercial development for Amiga.

Why?

Because as soon as a x86 enters the picture, along tags Windows. In essence, the temptation for x86 users to have Windows installed in parallel to a native Amiga OS x86 will be irresistible and we will be seeing «dual boot» systems as we saw on Beos and now Linux x86.

Both Beos and Linux serve as a stern warning about what happens if you try to compete with Windows on the same hardware: you become relegated to a Windows add-on product without any native software to speak of.

Beos, despite being a very impressive OS, failed to get any marketshare, never had any serious applications and Hyperion has more game licenses than there were ever games for Beos.

Take a look at the Linux situation which we experienced first hand. How many native apps and games does Linux have? Despite the very large installed base, Linux only has one serious game developer (Loki) and the number of serious (non-server related) native apps can be counted on one hand.

The reason is simple: why would a software company invest money in porting its software to another x86 OS when it knows people can also boot into Windows or run an «emulator» like Wine or VMWare which allows you to run Windows software under Linux x86 at near native speeds? The costs could never be recuperated through sales.

The result is clear: nobody is buying any product for Linux. A major, brand-new game-title can at best expect to sell a few thousand copies on Linux and several tens of thousands on Mac. Plus on Linux x86 you need to keep your pricing in line with the Windows version (without having the benefits of the economies of scale that the Windows market offers) otherwise you will provide even more incentive for people to buy Windows products.

Linux x86 is currently relegated to the status of a Windows add-on with a lot of software (like the Corel products and media-players) just working on Linux x86 because it uses Windows code in some way or another.

Linux has carved out a very nice niche in the server and embedded systems markets but the desktop market is a joke with all major Linux companies closing down or shedding jobs because nobody was making any money with desktop Linux.

So when somebody asks you: who has the bigger market-share on the desktop, Red Hat Linux or Apple Mac, the answer is: who cares? The real question is: who is making (more) money on the desktop and what desk-top platform has a wider range of native applications and games.

Mac OS X could be brought to x86 relatively easily. The core of Mac OS X already runs on x86 but there isn’t a hair on Steve Jobs’ head that thinks about giving up his nicely insulated niche-market in favor of head to head competition with Windows on the same hardware. Apple wants its developers to stay in business so they can keep Apple’s users happy by providing them with software not available on other platforms.

The resources that large commercial developers on Windows can command and the price-point they can reach by the sheer number of sales cannot be matched by developers on a niche-platform who can only survive in their niche-market if that platform is insulated from the Windows market.

People advocating a native x86 Amiga OS should look beyond the cheap hardware and understand they are condemning the Amiga desktop platform to become an emulation platform for old software with no new native software available.

Nobody but a handful of fanatics will pay more money to run a slower (partially emulated) version of the same or similar software on Windows when they can instead buy a cheaper, faster, native Windows-version which can run on the same hardware.

What good is cheap hardware when you have no software to run on your native x86 OS and you are forced to boot into Windows all the time? How long would it take before the development of such an OS would fall by the wayside because of low sales, which is exactly what happened to Beos?

Ben Hermans Managing partner Hyperion Entertainment
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 1 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Gareth Knight on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
I don't think the AmiThlon is intended to compete with OS4PPC. In the MP3 speech,Bill McEwan presents it as a method of diverifying their product range - a method of running 68k software on x86 CPUs. PPC emulation and AmigaOS4 support is highly questionable at current clock speeds.
It is the equivalent of saying that the Draco will steal sales from the A4000. (my estimates the compatibility rate will be roughly equivalent to the Draco - 10% of the current Amiga 68k software base.)
The only people that should be worried are existing PPC manufacturers - x86 AmigaOS has the ability to outperform Phase 5 boards (compare the Quake tests on the unnamed x86 emulator in Amiga Active).
I predict there will be three groups of people buying the x86 version:
1) Existing 68k/PPC owners who will buy AmigaONE and x86 AmigaOS.
2) Existing 68k/PPC owners who had no intention of buying the AmigaONE
3) Former 68k owners/UAE fans who want to get a taster of OS3.9
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 2 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Claus on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
AmigaInc's announcement took me by surprise as most others. A lot of rumours spread during the weekend (as usual), so I'm not sure if I got this correctly:
Amithlon is some kind of hyper-fast UAE derivate, which offers support for upto OS3.9 to PC-owning ex-Amigans. Amithlon doesn't offer promised things for OS4.0 PPC (like Ami3D, ...).
This is no show killer for OS4.0 PPC. And I doubt it will sell in masses. What it will do is generate media interest in Amiga and it my even give some kind of second wind to old Amiga apps.
I don't think any company will write apps for Amithlon. It's much more intelligent and secure to support OS4.0.
I share the vision of Hyperion, that going x86 with OS4.0 is a deadend. And I strongly hope AmigaInc isn't going down that road, as this will waste money and I doubt AmigaInc has money to waste.
But, as far as I understood, Amithlon is NOT AmigaOS4.0 (x86). It's just a fast 'Classic Amiga' emulation, to make people have a look at Amiga, go to relevant websites and realize what AmigaInc is really upto (apart from world domination ;-)).
That's how I see this whole situation. I wish AmigaInc listens to this warning from Hyperion and takes it seriously, and that Hyperion focuses on what they do best: port games to the official AmigaOS (and not some emu, however fast it may be).
One more thing: Hyperion, don't waste ressources on Amithlon. AmigaOne, bPlans Pegasus, Merlancias Tsunami and all those PDA's and stuff are Amiga's future! By the end of the year I will have some kind of zico-machine. I'll buy PaybackPPC, Shogo, SiN and Real3D and have fun(tm).
Regards,
Claus
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 3 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Frodo on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Gareth Knight):
You forgot one:
1') Existing 68k/PPC owners who will buy x86 AmigaOS INSTEAD of AmigaOne.
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 4 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by A. Vallinotto on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Gareth Knight):
What really matters here is not the real performance of native PPC VS emulated X86, but rather the marketing impact.
AmigaOne sales will likely drop and the few AmigaOS developers remaining will quit.
AmigaOS will become a "Toy OS" to be used in emulators. No commercial developer will do anything for such a platform.
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 5 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Claus on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (A. Vallinotto):
Amithlon _not_AmigaOS4.0 x86 (there is no such thing as AmigaOS x86)
Amithlon is 'just' a Classic Amiga emulator.
Regards,
Claus
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 6 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Claus):
Listen to the MP3 file from Amiwest again, and you will hear talk about OS 4 on x86.
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 7 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Gareth Knight on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Frodo):
Amithlon may exaggerate existing feelings that AmigaOne will be a disappointment, but it will not be the root cause. If anyone is serious about buying AmigaOne/AmigaOS4 they will not accept a UAE-on-steroids. If they do reconsider their purchase, it is unlikely that they needed the functionality provided by AmigaOS4 anyway.
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 8 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
> What good is cheap hardware when you have no
> software to run on your native x86 OS and you
> are forced to boot into Windows all the time?
> How long would it take before the development
> of such an OS would fall by the wayside because
> of low sales, which is exactly what happened
> to Beos?
Then I'd say developers better get their butts in gear
and start WRITING software. Obviously, people can't buy
it if it doesn't exist. If I have a descent office
package available on AmigaOS I won't NEED to boot into
Windows and use Microsoft Office. Everybody better get
used to the idea that you're going to have to compete
with Windows at some level. It makes no difference if
your running on the same hardware or not. Developers
need to provide the tools that people require to make
the machine useful. I'll aim this one right at Amiga Inc.,
This new "wonder machine" had better have clients that
allow it to login to NetWare, Linux and 2000 networks.
Like it or not, that's what the rest of the world is
currently running. You'd better be able to talk to it.
If Amiga Inc. and their developers can't provide basic
functionality to the Amiga platform, don't be surprised
when it flops.
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 9 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Amiga Informers Soothsayer on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Frodo):
I don't think so, people who buy the AmigaOne want it so they can get a fast PowerPC Amiga OS 4.0. They would not buy Amithlon instead of the AmigaOne because it would give them less than they already have (A1200 running Amiga OS 3.9). If Amithlon is not expensive they might buy it as well to support Amiga Inc. Lets have a look at these two different but cool products.
1. Amithlon= AmigaOs 3.9 Classic Fast 68X, not all Amiga apps run but if it runs under Amiga OS 3.9 it should run fast.
2. AmigaOne= Fully Amiga compatible because of A1200 & brand new PowerPC native Amiga OS 4.0, AGP, G4 etc.
So you see we are talking about two different products here, buy both of them!
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 10 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Gareth Knight on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Anonymous):
The AmiWest MP3s state that the version number will be abandoned. If Amiga Inc. are reading, please sell the x86 version as Amithlon or some other name, it is obvious that AmigaOS x86 is causing confusion.
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 11 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Tinman on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Anonymous):
Any developer targetting 68k or Amithlon for anything serious would have to be pretty nuts. Too small a userbase to pay the wages of 1 full time guy, never mind however many you'd need to write (taking your example) an Office Suite. And no doubt the office suite would have to have all the features and be compatible with MS Office. And given that you almost always get that bundled with Windows, you're not going to go and buy one for Amithlon. Which leaves you the 68k owners, and that's just not enough.
OS4 should definately have something like an office suite for it. It's pretty much the first software people come into contact with with their new computer (since it's normally included in the bundle). And it's probably one of the most used pieces of software on computers (apart from maybe net apps).
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 12 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Sinan Gurjkan on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
I hope AmigaOne or Pegasos is finished and sold to customers on time (Q4 2001). I am sure PPC native AmigaOS or MorphOS running G3/G4 will change the way that people look at PPC & Amiga...
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 13 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Anthony Becker on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
Hypoerion is not saying anything that was not already taught by Commodore's 128 long ago. The 128 came out with a full Commodore 64 built in to maintain 100% (or as close as possible) compatibility with that platform to make use of all the existing hardware and software that might have kept away buyers of the new machine.
What did that do to software development? Most software came out for the Commodore 64, especially games. Even though the 128 with more memory and a faster CPU would have made for far better games, developers decided to go for the marketshare. They are businesses who are there to try to make a profit so they can't exactly be faulted for this. Games written for the 128 would only be bought by 128 owners while games written for the 64 would be bought by both 64 and 128 owners. It's a no brainer to decide what to write your game for.
While some might say they would not bother with Windows if they could get the software they need for the Amiga x86, Amithlon, whatever. The fact remains that big developers are unlikely to want to write software for the Amiga on an x86 when x86 owners can also install Windows. That means writing software for Windows gives you both the Amiga x86 market and Windows market as potential buyers as opposed to Amiga x86 software which would be available only to Amiga owners.
I think this x86 makes an awesome emulator, but it should not be the focus. Anything to make UAE faster, and Amithlon uses UAE code, is a good thing for the emulation of classic Amigas. Good emulation means the Amiga itself can move forward without being as worried about compatibility with 1.3 software. Too much backward compatability is not a good thing and can ruin an operating system by making it too large and costly and the added complexity can only cause more problems as is makes more hiding places for bugs.
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 14 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by mark on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
I would just say this, I Ieft the Amiga some time ago but in my optimistic moments i still hope for a new Amiga which could shake up the market again. I have no problem with PPC other than price for me the above story somes it up niceley. x86 is much cheaper, ppc doesnt come close. To ask people to try a new OS is one thing to ask them to change there whole system is asking for a huge of leap of faith. I run linux on a dual boot system and i very rarely boot up windows. Linux does most of what i need although i miss the Amiga ease of use and feal.
If i understand the argument it comes down to saying people may by a more expensive platform on which to run just one os but they would not by an os and apps for existing cheaper hardware, this makes no sense to me at all.
Did not Amiga say origonally there new system would run anywhere, this was its big selling point. Now it seems to say run on a home server or a subset of the apps on mobile phones pda's and set top boxes
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 15 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Tinman on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (mark):
No, the new OS (AmigaOS 4) is for desktop computers only. The AmigaDE is the part which will run everywhere (by sitting on top of a host OS). AmigaOS 5 is supposed to see AmigaDE becoming a fully integrated part of the desktop Amiga OS, although the DE will still also be available separately (to sit on top of other OSes). Something like that anyway :)
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 16 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Brecht on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
Hi,
Almost *everyone* commenting to the article seem to be forgetting one very important fact: amithlon is MORE then just an emulator, it will allow the creation (and execution of course) or native x86 AmigaOS programs! Compare it to what MorphOS does for a PPC Amiga.
Bit by bit, the AmigaOS will be ported to x86 (amigaos components re-built for x86, thus running even faster), this is the same what os 4.x does for PPC Amigas. (It IS already working, 'context' switches are FAST, there are no big/little endian problems)
Now, I only hope that Amiga Inc will provide an API for Amithlon and OS4 for PPC that allows for source-compatibility across these platforms (I've already mailed Amiga Inc and Bernie about this to make sure). If this is possible (I'm pretty sure it is), I don't see any splitting of the Amiga community, simple as that!
Now will you all just stop panicing and enjoy these wonderful times!
Brecht
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 17 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Brecht):
Yes, enjoy the wonderful times without software and running Windows!
Ever heard of endian conflicts BTW?
Re-read my statement about Beos and Linux and stop putting your head in the sand.
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 18 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Gareth Knight on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Brecht):
<amithlon is MORE then just an emulator, it will allow the creation (and execution of course) or native x86 AmigaOS programs!>
The issue of x86 native Amiga apps has already been raised when Amiga Forever was launched. For a time, the authors of MUI and Personal Paint were considering the development of x86 plugins. I'm not sure if they developed anything though.
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 19 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Brecht on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
> Yes, enjoy the wonderful times without software and running Windows!
There's plenty of stuff out there that can be ported... everything else still runs under a nice fast emulation (faster then on 060, what more do you want?) and what software does the PPC amiga have? 5-year old software-3d games noone gives a sh*t about?
> Ever heard of endian conflicts BTW?
I'm pretty sure I mentioned the endian stuff... Bernie doesn't even mention it in the FAQ, so I'm guessing there are no problems! He already has small demos (benchmarks and the likes) that run natively on x86.
> Re-read my statement about Beos and Linux and stop putting your head in the sand
Linux is crap for anything but a server-use. BeOS is a nice os, but marketed into the ground.
Amiga has alot of users that have stopped using it (because there was nu future), but are interested in this new progress, they WILL try Amithlon (read the comments on /.)
Please, at least give it a chance!
Brecht
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 20 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Brecht on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Oops, forgot this in my reply:
>Yes, enjoy the wonderful times without software and running Windows!
So you are saying Amiga users will buy a PC to run Amithlon and then get persuaded to run Windows too? Well, 99% of current Amiga users own a PC already, in order to play those new games and MS/Open-Office, because we don't have that on our beloved Amiga.
And if people like you, who have the power to port games to amithlon, don't take any action, we will have to use Windows! It's all in your hands.
Now, you can just wine about this being not in the 'Amiga-spirit' or you can help make this great so that we can attract some new users for a change!
Brecht
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 21 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
First of all, repeated several times throughout this "official opinion" is the phrase "the end of all serious commercial development for Amiga OS."
First of all, when I finish laughing, I would like to point out the fact that THERE IS NO "SERIOUS COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT" for Amiga, or AmigaOS... I can understand why Amiga Inc's constant waffling and changing of direction would piss off a lot of people including developers, but get real here. There is no serious development for the Amiga, AmigaOS, AmigaOne, or any other "Amiga Related" device yet.
For anyone who thinks the Amiga isn't dead, please allow me to suggest the following reading material: http://www.davearnott.com/6signs.html
-- Me
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 22 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Mekanix on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
> Both Beos and Linux serve as a stern
> warning about what happens if you try
> to compete with Windows on the same
> hardware: you become relegated to a
> Windows add-on product without any
> native software to speak of.
Oh dear, not this nonsense again. Both BeOS and Linux are actually both successes.
Be's shift to x86 gave a huge boost of users and software at a time when there hardly weren't sold any BeBox'es? How can this be a failure?
The trouble started when Be abandonned BeOS for BeIA. Who will commit to a niche OS when the plug have been pulled? Look at what happened to the Amiga when Commodore went belly up. Almost all commercial products vanished "overnight". And this in spite of being a non-x86-platform. Gee, how can that be?
As for Linux, it's a huge success and the userbase is almost all x86-based. And the availability of software? Take a small peak a Freshmeat. An abundance of software. And as an everyday *nix-user (FreeBSD) there is really few things that I really miss. I must be blind 'cause I can't spot any failures.
But what you fail to recognise about Linux is:
- Linux is still young. It still have ways to go in userfriendlyness before it's ready for Joe Average. So Linux is still only attracting a certain type of users.
- Current Linux users generally do not want to pay for software, especially when there are a free (and often better) alternatives.
- Current Linux users aren't as game-oriented as users generally. Linux is a workplace.
> number of serious (non-server related) native
> apps can be counted on one hand.
And there all your fine arguments crash in burning flames...
> The reason is simple: why would a software
> company invest money in porting its software
> to another x86 OS when it knows people can also
> boot into Windows or run an «emulator» like Wine
> or VMWare which allows you to run Windows software
> under Linux x86 at near native speeds? The costs
> could never be recuperated through sales.
Right! And this ofcourse has absolutely *nothing* to with the release-cycle of ported games. People really doesn't mind joining a party (eg. online game-cummunity) 6-24 month *after* the party is over. *And* paying full entrance fee.
Neither has the hassle with incompatible distros, X-version, different glibs and whatnot nothing to do with the lack of sale of Linux-games.
What really annoys me about this x86-slashing is that it's all from a developers point of view. Don't give the user a choice. Isolate the users from other markets. Create small niece markets with higher prices (and thus higher profits).
This sound as a pure DVDism. Region-coding thats creates smaller markets, higher prices and bigger profits.
No, the question you really ought to ask yourself: If Joe Average on releasedate could wander down to his local shop buy a games choosing between the BeOS, Linux, Windows and AmigaOS. All for the same HW. All with the same pricetag. All with the same features.
Would Joe Average still be buying the Windowsversion if he had one or more of the other OS's installed?
Another thing that makes your arguement really flawed is that most Amiga-users already got a x86-machine with windows. Whether or not they will install AmigaOS x86 doesn't change anything. They'd still be buying and completed any game on Windows way before any port is finished.
And turning this 180 degress. How many ordinary users have deskspace for 2 or more computers? Few, correct. Now if the ordinary should choose between Windows or AmigaPPC which one would prevail? Now, if we add dualbooting Windows/AmigaOS x86 into the picture, which one would be the choice now?
I'm sorry. I don't really grasp this fear. I only see good things coming of this.
Bjarne
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 23 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Francisco on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
ARE ALL THE PEOPLE IDIOT OR ALL HAS BEEN MAD!!!!
AMITHLON IS AN EMULATOR, NOT A PORT OF THE OS.IS A FAST EMULATOR THAT BOOT
DIRECTLY WITHOUT ANY OTHER OPERATING SYSTEM.
SO THERE IS NO PROBLEM.IS ONLY AN OPTION TO UAE, VERY FAST AND CAN BOOT DIRECTLY
WITHOUT BOOT ANY OTHER OS(WELL A FEW LIBS, AND CODE OF LINUX) BUT INVISIBLE FOR
YOU.IS THE BEST THINK TO RUN aMIGAOS ON PC UNTIL AMIGAOS 5 HIT THE STREET.I THINK THAT THIS IS ONLY TARGERED TO UAE USERS THAT WANT A BETTER EMULATION; AND
THIS WILL BE PERMIT AMIGA INC PLAY WITH X86 AND AMIGAOS TO VIEW THE PROBLEMS THAT CAN BE PRESENTED ON AMIGAOS 5 AND EXPERIMENT WITH THIS.
this is that i wait for long since uae was released.and amiga emulator that only emulates the 68k and all other bits are running on the emulated 68k, that can boot whitout run any OS previously.now i hope that a pci library will be released (may be compatible with mediator or prometheus)that permit at the emulated 68k acces to directly to the pci cards and driven by amigaos instead of being driven by the emulation(x86 prog) and use the current pci drivers of the amiga.And what stop to plug a PPC on a PCI card on your PC and run AmigaOS4 when relesed--->you boot amithlon your pc is an amiga now---> this boot the bootstrap that make the PowerPC take contol over the system---->run the amigaos4
well this how is supposed to run amigaos4 on the mediator and the prometheus you boot the amiga and a program makes the powerpc to take control over the system, so if you run a pci library that acces to the pci on the PC and is compatible with mediator or prometheus then wohoo!!! AmigaOS4 on your PC.well
may be is difficult to make but not imposible
PS:sorry for my english.I hope that all undestand me
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 24 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Mekanix):
Beos a success?
Name any famous games ported to Beos before the very recent BEIA?
Name any famous apps ported to Beos before BEIA?
About the porting process: so you admit that people will use Windows because games/software are available earlier.
Pray tell how this can be avoided when you have to produce a native version for Amiga OS?
Finally, you know nothing about the Linux market. Linux is "young"! Linux has more installed seats than MacOS, that's how "young" it is.
Even Linux Torvals admits that Linux can take on Windows yet in the desktop area.
But I'm sure you know better.
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 25 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Chris on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
> Take a look at the Linux situation which we experienced first hand. How
> many native apps and games does Linux have?
I have over 2Gb of "native" apps and games installed, and I've got nowhere near all of the available games and applications installed, probably not even a quarter of them.
You obviously haven't been looking in the right places, here's some help:
http://www.sourceforge.net (only 24,265 of these non-existent native apps)
http://www.linuxapps.com (ok, so there's some repeats in there...)
http://www.freezer-burn.org/
http://freshmeat.net/
> Despite the very large
> installed base, Linux only has one serious game developer (Loki) and the
> number of serious (non-server related) native apps can be counted on one hand.
What utter, complete, total and unmitigated FUD-mongering garbage. So you're saying that to be serious a project has to be commercial? Perhaps you're labouring under a fundamental misconception of how Linux works?
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 26 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by szutoman on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
It’s about choice. Get it? Understand. Options! New life for Image FX graphic Artist. New life for Aladdin 4d Users and many older applications that now will show how useful they can be running 500 times faster. It's about creating interest that will benefit you when someone hits a page curious about this development and see Hyperons Name and click the link. It is about Saturation Marketing Protocols, which many apparently do not understand.
This is indeed a great day for the Amiga Community
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 27 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Brecht):
> 5-year old software-3d games noone gives a sh*t about?
Thank you. Who needs a 68k emulator that noone gives a sh*t about? If you want to behave like an insulting idiot, go take that to a ghetto.
> Please, at least give it a chance!
By the time we know it deserved the chance or not we're dead in the water. We are a commercial developer, and we're surely not bet our live on that.
Best regards, Hans-Joerg.
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 28 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Brecht):
> Well, 99% of current Amiga users own a PC already.
I bet I know who told you that. It's not true BTW.
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 29 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (szutoman):
It's about competition. Get it? Do you think anyone will buy an Amiga browser when there's plenty of free alternatives that run on the same platform? Do you think that anyone is interested in an AmigaOS completely devoid of any serious application? Do you think that there is a market for that?
This is a sad day for developers.
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 30 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by damocles on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Claus):
Oh how wonderful. Here is a method that not only generates cash for "The Name" Inc, but draws upon cheap and powerful hardware most of us already own, and we get this crap. I never have bought any products from Hyperion, and I'll be damned if I ever will with this type of attitude.
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 31 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Brecht on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Francisco):
>ARE ALL THE PEOPLE IDIOT OR ALL HAS BEEN MAD!!!!
>AMITHLON IS AN EMULATOR, NOT A PORT OF THE OS.IS A FAST EMULATOR THAT BOOT
>DIRECTLY WITHOUT ANY O....A BETTER EMULATION; AND
>THIS WILL BE PERMIT AMIGA INC PLAY WITH X86 AND AMIGAOS TO VIEW THE PROBLEMS >THAT CAN BE PRESENTED ON AMIGAOS 5 AND EXPERIMENT WITH THIS.
were the caps really necessary?
Anyways, you are poster #51037 that forgets that Amithlon can run NATIVE x86 AmigaOS code! This will also allow for a gradual port of the OS to x86.
>this is that i wait for long since uae was released.and amiga emulator that >only emulates the 68k and all other bits are running on the emulated 68k, that >can boot whitout run any OS previously.now i hope that a pci library will be >released (may be compatible with mediator or prometheus)that permit at the >emulated 68k acces to directly to the pci cards and driven by amigaos instead >of being driven by the emulation(x86 prog) and use the current pci drivers of >the amiga.And what stop to plug a PPC on a PCI card on your PC and run >AmigaOS4 when relesed--->you boot amithlon your pc is an amiga now---> this >boot the bootstrap that make the PowerPC take contol over the system---->run >the amigaos4
>well this how is supposed to run amigaos4 on the mediator and the prometheus >you boot the amiga and a program makes the powerpc to take control over the >system, so if you run a pci library that acces to the pci on the PC and is >compatible with mediator or prometheus then wohoo!!! AmigaOS4 on your PC.well
>may be is difficult to make but not imposible
Actually, from within Amithlon, you do have direct access to the pc hardware!
UAE JIT already had a pci.library (S3 virge was the only supported card though).
So these aren't just future plans, it's there, partly.
>PS:sorry for my english.I hope that all undestand me
That's ok, the caps were annoying though
Brecht
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 32 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Brecht on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
>> 5-year old software-3d games noone gives a sh*t about?
>
>Thank you. Who needs a 68k emulator that noone gives a sh*t about? If you want >to behave like an insulting idiot, go take that to a ghetto.
Ok, I didn't want to insult anyone, my apoligies. I was trying to say that there's no chance of keeping up with Windows-software. Amiga has had it's alternatives, which do get the job done too, some better, some worse.
But we DO need a decent office suite. It would be nice if we got some new users thanks to amithlon and maybe some of them even can port OpenOffice to BOTH Amithlon and AmigaOS PPC (it works both ways!). Games, I'm not sure, but it couldn't hurt, computers are all about 3D nowadays, so :)
Who needs an 68k emulator? AmigaOS PPC needs an 68k emu, we need backwards compatibility!
>> Please, at least give it a chance!
>
>By the time we know it deserved the chance or not we're dead in the water. We >are a commercial developer, and we're surely not bet our live on that.
Of course not, but that's why I think *SOURCE-COMPATIBILITY* across the various hw-platforms (2, on november 1 :) is so important. If not there would certainly be forking of the community (something we don't need!).
But Ben was saying he would not support amithlon, just like that. I don't think that's a good attitude! We can make this work, *if* we give it a chance and maybe even some support.
Ciao,
Brecht
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 33 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Chris):
You can't escape the fact that ALL games need to be commercial and that on Linux all games are produced by one single company barely surviving.
If this company folds, that's it for Linux gaming.
Furthermore, do you really think this "free software" attitude will get you "native" apps that will attract people?
Where's the port of Mozilla for the Amiga OS? We could port it in 3 months and somebody needs to pay us because otherwise we go out of business.
Problem is that some companies in the past have viewed Linux as a trendy DESKTOP operation system with a great future and have invested in it.
They are rapidly moving away from that notion and then indeed, you will be running your free software.
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 34 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Kelly Samel on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
Hi, the only worries I have about an x86 system
is ports. I do NOT want to buy an "AmigaOS" system
and then run ports of all the terrible software from
win/linux. There needs to be original Amiga based
software development with Amiga style interfaces and
usability. x86 will make programmers very lazy and we
will see a glut of poorly constructed freeware ports
from unix/win sources. We need COMMERCIAL software
development, especially for professional uses. I
beleive that a PPC based custom Amiga setup will
never really be replaced by x86 unless everyone is
willing to settle for less... It might be ok for the
user that barely uses his Amiga or thinks UAE is an
adequate replacement OS. However for individuals like
myself that use their Amiga EVERY day and do not even
care one bit about the apps/garbage for win/linux it
is going to be a sad event if x86 gets a market share.
I also want to be able to move forward and going down to
PC technology is taking a step in the wrong direction...
When UAE was released many people thought that all the
new users of AmigaOS would increase software sales,
just the opposite occured. x86 could be helpful to Amiga
if it is launched and presented correctly, however if it
turns into another UAE it will deter from the market and
we will have to work even harder to get the Amiga system
WE want and make it respectable in the "industry" marketplace.
From what I have seen Amiga Inc. have the right idea and I
think they can make it work. I wish them luck and will
fully support all Amiga products that are Amiga like. I
really enjoy this system and want to see it prosper.
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 35 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Brecht):
Brecht: x86 and PPC are different endian architectures: source-code compatibility is near impossible.
And no, we won't support it. Why would we? Go out and buy a Wintel machine and run the latest games on that.
Cheaper and you get them faster.
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 36 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Brecht on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
>> Well, 99% of current Amiga users own a PC already.
>
>I bet I know who told you that. It's not true BTW
no, who?
I think it's safe to assume it's over 60% of amiga users.
Brecht
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 37 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by david on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Chris):
> Take a look at the Linux situation which we experienced first hand. How
> many native apps and games does Linux have?
I have over 2Gb of "native" apps and games installed, and I've got nowhere near all of the available games and applications installed, probably not even a quarter of them.
You obviously haven't been looking in the right places, here's some help:
http://www.sourceforge.net (only 24,265 of these non-existent native apps)
http://www.linuxapps.com (ok, so there's some repeats in there...)
http://www.freezer-burn.org/
http://freshmeat.net/
> Despite the very large
> installed base, Linux only has one serious game developer (Loki) and the
> number of serious (non-server related) native apps can be counted on one hand.
What utter, complete, total and unmitigated FUD-mongering garbage. So you're saying that to be serious a project has to be commercial? Perhaps you're labouring under a fundamental misconception of how Linux works?
You Linux freaks just don't get it. When I, along with the other 99% of the x86-buying public go out to buy a new system, does it come with Linux? No. Will it come with AOSx86? No. What an utterly inane mindset you must have if you think we're going to go to a couple of urls everytime we want a new game or some productivity apps. I shop at Babbages, EB, Frye's and that's pretty much it. I am not willing to jump through hoops anymore to buy some damn program, and I'm sure as $#!+ not going to "just do a simple recompile" if it doesn't fit my "distro." Until Dell, Compaq, Gateway, etc stop automatically bundling Windoze with every x86 system, any OS that tries to compete on the same h/w is dead out of the starting gates. It sucks, but that's life. Deal with it.
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 38 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Brecht on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
>It's about competition. Get it? Do you think anyone will buy an Amiga browser >when there's plenty of free alternatives that run on the same platform? Do you >think that anyone is interested in an AmigaOS completely devoid of any serious >application? Do you think that there is a market for that?
>
>This is a sad day for developers.
How about **choice** again?
I know many people who think PC browsers are bloated and unstable, and prefer to use their amiga for browsing, while they run windows too.
IMHO I think you are completely wrong in seeing windows as a new competitor... Amigans have been using Windows alongside AmigaOS now, because they HAD to, and even because they wanted to.
*Maybe* if mozilla would get ported to Amithlon, it might be a real threat... but I personally think mozilla is one piece of bloated crap.
Amithlon is the thing that will put some life into AmigaOS again, it was high time!
Brecht
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 39 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Mekanix on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
> Beos a success?
> Name any famous games ported to Beos before the very recent BEIA?
> Name any famous apps ported to Beos before BEIA?
How do you define "success"? It almost sound as if an OS only can achieve "success" when it have absolute worlddomination? And BeIA ... recent? It's a couple of years old... at least.
And what's wrong with *native* non-ported apps and games?
Anyway, I'm not really into BeOS so if you're really interested try ask in a BeOS-forum. But from the top of my head I can name Opera, Mozilla, AbiWord, VideoLan and I even think there is a konqueror in the works. And looking at BeBits you can find almost anything I need (mail, browser, newsreader, irc, icq, cd-burner etc. etc.).
As for games, there is not many. But that ofcourse is the fault of Windows/x86 and have absolutely nothing to do with the lack of videodrivers and the absence of OpenGL or any other 3D-driver.
> About the porting process: so you admit
> that people will use Windows because
> games/software are available earlier.
Well... I don't think it's a secret for anyone...
> Pray tell how this can be avoided when you have
> to produce a native version for Amiga OS?
How do you avoid it today? That's right, you *don't*! The only thing you can and *should* do is to get releasedate and pricetag to be as close as possible to the Windows-version.
> Finally, you know nothing about the Linux market.
> Linux is "young"! Linux has more installed seats
> than MacOS, that's how "young" it is.
Mac-users are loaded americans. Linux-users are mostly students on a budget. Often Linux is installed on an old dusty pentium or something.
> Even Linux Torvals admits that Linux can take on
> Windows yet in the desktop area.
There you are again with your definition of success: worlddomination.
No, Linux can't take on Windows... not anytime soon.
But it sure makes a great alternative if you're willing to put a little effort to get it running. I do everything I need to do with FreeBSD. I only use Windows for the occasional games. Now, in my book, *that's* a success.
> But I'm sure you know better
Apparently I am. Which is very scary since I no mangaging director/partner/whatever in some bigshot gamescompany.
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 40 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Brecht):
You can escape the historical facts: Beos is dead.
That OS was in many ways better than the Amiga OS ever was.
Yet it died because it ran on the same hardware as Windows.
The fact that many people now already own a Wintel machine, changes nothing.
So do all Hyperion developers. The question: for what system do you buy software?
What platform do you support? Do you want native software or do you want to run Windows and use the Amiga to run old software?
It's like those Linux users that keep mailing us for "free binaries" because they bought the Windows version.
It simply doesn't work that way.
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 41 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Brecht on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
>Brecht: x86 and PPC are different endian architectures: source-code >compatibility is near impossible.
the big/little endian problem was thought to be a huge problem too... looks like that turned out quite nicely anyways.
I think i'll wait for what Bernie has to say about this.
>And no, we won't support it. Why would we? Go out and buy a Wintel machine and >run the latest games on that.
I already got a wintel machine, like most Amiga users, and we *are* using it to run games.
Games don't really have high priority, you don't need a fast multitasking os to run them, look at windows. Using an OS in a productive way, or just for fun (browsing, music, animation, ...) does benefit from a fast multitasking OS.
>Cheaper and you get them faster.
I already said that in a previous post BTW
Ports of games on the x86 os would be a (very) nice extra though. But hey, if you don't want to do it, i'm not forcing you. But don't expect the rest of us not to support amithlon.
Brecht
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 42 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Elwood on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
Ben, I don't get you here.<BR>
As Amithlon is an emulator, all stuff coded for OS3.9 will run on it. So Amithlon opens a new market for stuff coded for AmigaOS. Obviously in order to make it possible, Amiga and Amithlon must run the same version of the OS (P96, Warp3D...). So the market will get bigger so it's good for software developers.<BR>
Now, about the "Amithlon will hurt A1" idea: it's exactly like A1 vs SharkPPC. The "most interesting" will be the most sold. That's all... And here everyone seems to say that AmigaOS running in Amithlon will go faster than AmigaOS on the AmigaOne. I can't believe this. I am talking here about two things that can be compared OK ? So please compare with a 1,x Ghz x86 processor and a G4 at 733 Mhz (processors we see today)...
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 43 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Toner on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Brecht):
People who don't already have a PC will probably not buy a PC just
to run 68K-only Amiga software. We're more likely to buy the AmigaOne,
and also be able to run PPC software, which Amithlon cannot do.
People who already have a PC are very likely to have a lot of Windows
stuff. Amithlon might be a neat curiosity item, but would mostly be a
faster replacement to UAE, which cannot run simultaneously alongside
Windows apps like Word or Excel. Now, what the Hyperion folks are saying
is that if yuo have a PC with Windows and Amithlon both, and you decide
you want to buy commercial Quake (first version as in what Clickboom
ported to Amiga), are you going to buy Clickboom's Amiga 68K version, or
are you going to buy the Windows version? As good as Amithlon is compared
to an 060 Amiga, the native Windows version will still probably do even
better running under Windows. If you're into 3d, are you going to use
Lightwave for Amiga 68K, or are you going to run the Windows x86 version?
Are you going to buy Soldier of Fortune today, or wait and see if Hyperion
decide they can make a playyable port for 68K Amigas and then emulate that?
Your PC probably already came with Word and Excel for 95% of PC users in
the world today. Are you going to use that or buy AmigaWriter to run under
emulation?
Most people faced with such questions are going to buy Quake for Windows,
Lightwave for Windows, Soldier of Fortune for Windows, and keep using the
"free" copy of Word that came with their machine and not pay extra to emulate
an Amiga word processor that does the same thing.
The Commodore 64/128 thing is a valid issue. It also is something the Linux
crowd should be concerned with if Wine ever gets "too good". If Wine gets so
good that there are no bugs and Windows software works flawlessly, there is then
no real reason (ie. financial incentive to support duplicate development
efforts) to write two versions of software for Windows and Linux anymore. Thus
only Windows software will be written. Our situation is somewhat different in that
AmigaOS 68K isn't Windows compatible via a Wine-alike API, but with Windows sitting
on the same hard drive, with the same software running faster as x86-native,
available sooner than Amiga 68K ports, and probably cost less than Amiga 68K
software, what do you think the majority of people will do, buy Windows software,
or wait and pay more for slower and less features Amiga software under emulation?
This is Hyperion's concern. I can understand it. I own a PC, but can't stand using
it, but most PC users think I'm insane because of that. I'll be buying an AmigaOne
for real computer use to sit beside my 4000T. I may buy Amithlon as well, if I ever
get the PC to work right as a multiboot machine, to increase the number of people
that could play net quake or whatever, but I wouldn't have much use for it beyond
that type of thing.
Oh, and how happily can this Amithlon dualboot with a full Linux install? Would the
two installs conflict over the root "/" partitions??? I would want to keep Linux
and Amihtlon on completely seperate partitions, but with it being based on Linux I'm
curious to know if such seperate partitions might be problematic...
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 44 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Brecht):
Okay, let's turn to productivity then?
Amithlon runs at the speed of 300 Mhz 68060 on a 1.2 Ghz Athlon.
It essence, it runs at 25% of the native speed which is very fast FOR EMULATION.
Please explain to me how you can even hope to do image manipulation or rendering as fast on a 300 Mhz 68060 as on a 1.2 Ghz Athlon?
It's a huge waste of performance. Apps should be coded natively otherwise you are dealing with something which is ridiculous from a performance/price-point and is just useful for nostalgia freaks.
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 45 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Mekanix on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
> And no, we won't support it. Why would we?
Why do you do it now then?
> Go out and buy a Wintel machine and run the
> latest games on that.
> Cheaper and you get them faster
This apply for today as well... why would AmigaOS x86 change any of this? Apart from many users will *not* get the option of choosing an Amiga-version over a Windows because "someone" believes in ghosts....
But what *I* fear is that your company with your attitude will prohibit *others* of doing a port since you sit on the Amiga-licenses...
One can only hope that AmigaOS x86 will expand the userbase enough for some more openminded developers to snatch future licenses before you get a hold on them. Ahh... the beaty of competition...
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 46 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Mekanix):
Oh come on, what an idiot you are.
We have maybe 7 licenses and there's tons of games being released on Wintel every month.
Like we are stopping anybody from porting stuff.
We have no serious competition because nobody is crazy enough to invest money in the Amiga market for really high-end games.
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 47 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
All these arguments stem from the fear that people will buy Windows stuff over Amiga stuff. Too right we will! It would be available earlier, and cheaper then the Amiga version and we would be mad not to. But, this is what you get if all you do is port other apps/games. When I was a lad, the Amiga was an Inovator in all fields of software. Some of the greatest games and genre setters started out life on the platform, often for a fraction of the cost of the same software on a different platform. If a future Amiga OS ends up on x86, then a software company will have to start Inovating instead of Porting to survive, simple as that. What we need is the same as what Doom did for the PC, Sonic for the Megadrive & the Mario bro's for the Nintendo. People didn't buy Doom for their PC, they bought a PC so they could buy Doom.
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 48 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Brecht on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
>You can escape the historical facts: Beos is dead.
>That OS was in many ways better than the Amiga OS ever was.
I'm sure BeOS has more users then AmigaOS right now.
>Yet it died because it ran on the same hardware as Windows.
No it didn't! It's got alot more users since the x86 port.
> The fact that many people now already own a Wintel machine, changes nothing.
Well, nothing except that it totally obliterates half of your arguments :p
>What platform do you support? Do you want native software or do you want to >run Windows and use the Amiga to run old software?
In the case of games, if your amithlon port of a certain game would be released about a month later then the pc version, and the price would be about the same, I would opt for the Amithlon version.
A month is very short of course, but good communication with the company that is doing the windows version, I think this should be possible.
>It's like those Linux users that keep mailing us for "free binaries" because >they bought the Windows version.
>
>It simply doesn't work that way.
Of course not... but it's the reality, we can't change it.
Brecht
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 49 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by david on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Mekanix):
Now you're being insulting. Hyperion "snatches" up licenses, eh? So we've got all these Amigans sitting around and bitching because the can't play the newest/latest/greatest game that the PC has and they think that porting is a snap and can be done in about 5 minutes. Then Hyperion comes along, finds out what games these guys want, go through hell to get the license, and do their best to port it for you. And when they're done, the charge the same price as the PC original, even though they won't sell even a fraction as many copies as the orginal.
OK, pal, what was the last bit of commercial s/w, heck, *any* s/w that you ported, or just wrote yourself? That's what I thought.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, criticize.
Hyperion Entertainment blasts idea of x86 Amiga OS : Comment 50 of 322ANN.lu
Posted by Elwood on 29-Jul-2001 22:00 GMT
Please everyone read http://byron.csse.monash.edu.au/amithlon.html to learn about it before sending questions !
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