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[News] Interview with FleecyANN.lu
Posted on 03-May-2002 22:18 GMT by Vidar Langberget236 comments
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I've just published an interview with Fleecy Moss.
You can find the normal version here.
And for those using Amiga browsers, use this link.
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 101 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Casper on 05-May-2002 07:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 100 (Turrican):
I still wonder exactly what you base your statements on? What is it exactly that you know that all the rest of us don't know? Because as far as I can see nothing said here or anywhere else would support these statements.
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 102 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 05-May-2002 08:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 97 (Glames):
Hello Glames,
"You can like MorphOS, You can like AmigaOS, you can like both. But you have to respect work."
Yes I agree TOTALLY!!! And in the last past weeks I've feeling some people not respecting MorphOS too. Just reestablish the reality. Yes there are some people not respecting AmigaOS 4 work (shame on them) but also people like Samface who have not respected the MorphOS work in some not so far in the past flames about it (Shame on them too).
So my dear Glames, I understand perfectly your feeling but don't just point out MorphOS fans. There are also not respecting AmigaOS 4 fans. Here is the full reality ;-)
Anyway personally I respect totally the work on AmigaOS 4 even if I don't like Ben Hermans a lot because he has spreaded in the past some "lies" on release date (February, now May and it seems that May will not be the date so maybe June or Jully? and after September? or October?). The fact is it's not possible to give a good estimation of AmigaOS 4 release and telling wrong non realistic date does not help. So I respect the Hyperion and others AmigaOS 4 developers and I'll be happy to be able to see and try AmigaOS 4 when it'll come out even if I don't like Ben Hermans very much ;-)
Regards
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 103 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 05-May-2002 08:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 102 (Frodon):
>Anyway personally I respect totally the work on AmigaOS 4 even if I don't like >Ben Hermans a lot because he has spreaded in the past some "lies" on release >date
It seems to me your indignation is rather selective.
How many times was the Pegasos and MorphOS combo delayed?
We're talking about years. I have magazines here which announced the Pegasos for late 2000.
I have seen announcements that bPlan would come to the Cologne show in November 2001 with tens of boards to sell.
Let's take a look at this year alone: first it was March, then April, then May, now June.
But ofcourse when this happens to the Pegasos and MorphOS, there are legitimate reasons.
When it happens to OS 4 or the AmigaOne, it's because we lie or are incompetent.
Yes, OS 4 was delayed compared to the original schedule announced in November 2001.
This is due to various reasons as I've pointed out before: integration of most 4.2 features in 4.0, problems with access to the 3.9 source-code, change in the AmigaOne design which no longer has chipset access etc.
When we took over in November 2001, we did not realise how much could be accomplished in a relatively short timeframe.
We originally had no plans to overhaul Intuition, to replace layers.library, to rewrite DOS library, to tackle the datatype system or AREXX.
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 104 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 05-May-2002 08:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 103 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Hello,
The Pegasos wasn't announced to be released befor Cologne 2001. The magazine you got saying that it'll be released in 2000 are simply spreading lies ;-)
The official date announced was Mars 2002, anyway it is late and will be out normally this summer or fall to be really realistic as this is not an exact science ;-)
The Pegasos could have been out in March but in that case it'd not have been fully tested and MorphOS would have still be AmigaOS dependent and Mr Hermans would have played with the MorphOS Team by sueing them for "parasitic competition". That's why for good beta tests and legal reasons it couldn't be out in March. But contrary to AmigaOS 4 we have seen a working Pegasos on MorphOS. AmigaOS 4 don't run on AmigaOne actually and not even on PPC cards as the ExecSG is not ready.
That's the facts.
Regards
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 105 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 05-May-2002 08:56 GMT
Hello again,
"
Let's take a look at this year alone: first it was March, then April, then May, now June."
What? Don't say wrong stuff. It was announced for March YES but never for April and May. Maybe on some Websites and magazines by people that "supposed" the dates. But not officially. Yes June was announced by Thendic-France let see if it's true.
"But ofcourse when this happens to the Pegasos and MorphOS, there are legitimate reasons."
Yes as i've said in the previous post.
"When it happens to OS 4 or the AmigaOne, it's because we lie or are incompetent."
I never said that. I just said that contrary to the Pegasos Team that had good reasons to expect a March release, Mr Hermans gave release date that are not realistic at all and he knew that perfectly and he knew that the date he said wasn't realistic when he said them (or if he don't he is himself not realistic because he got all the elements to realize that the dates were not realistic). When he announced the May release date in was in April and the ExecSG and some other key parts of AmigaOS weren't ready at all even some weren't started at all (my source about that is in direct connection with Hyperion).
"Yes, OS 4 was delayed compared to the original schedule announced in November 2001."
I didn't talk about this delay! This delay was perfectly logical and even the announced date of November when it was done was realistic.
I denouncing that Mr Hermans announce unrealistic realize date since November 2001 and he know perfectly that this is unrealistic even when he announce them.
So I reproach him to announce unrealistic dates knowing that it's unrealistic.
"This is due to various reasons as I've pointed out before: integration of most 4.2 features in 4.0, problems with access to the 3.9 source-code, change in the AmigaOne design which no longer has chipset access etc."
Yes perfectly true and logical for the November 2001 delay. But as I said I never reproached this delay.
Regards
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 106 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 05-May-2002 08:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 104 (Frodon):
>The Pegasos wasn't announced to be released befor Cologne 2001. The magazine you >got saying that it'll be released in 2000 are simply spreading lies ;-)
That's a bit easy isn't? Shifting the blame to the people behind the German magazines? Where do you think they got their information?
Besides, you are plain wrong. There are interviews with Ralph Schmidt where he also made claims about release dates of MorphOS.
I guess the journalists made up this interview?
Sorry, you are simply not being objective and selectively disregard information because it doesn't fit in your world-view.
>The official date announced was Mars 2002, anyway it is late and will be out >normally this summer or fall to be really realistic as this is not an exact >science ;-)
Really? So why do you accuse me of lieing because the OS 4 timeline slipped?
So when I announced something and it is delayed, I'm a liar but if bPlan does it, it's not an exact science and they can't be blamed.
You can't expect me to take you seriously with this type of slanted logic.
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 107 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 05-May-2002 09:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 105 (Frodon):
>When he announced the May release date in was in April and the
>ExecSG and some other key parts of AmigaOS weren't ready at all even some >weren't started at all (my source about that is in direct connection with >Hyperion).
This is complete nonsense.
In fact, only 4 people in Hyperion know the status of the kernel and nobody else barring myself.
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 108 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 05-May-2002 09:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 104 (Frodon):
>The Pegasos could have been out in March but in that case it'd not have been >fully tested
What a joke. bPlan did not even have the parts to build them at that time, in fact they still don't have those parts as we speak.
Unless they used a StarTrek duplication technology to duplicate PPC's and Northbridges without actually ordering them.
That's the problem isn't it: who makes Northbridges for the PPC that do AGPx2?
Who makes PPC's?
It's very easy to verify these facts with the manufacturers.
It's time to face reality: this is difficult work and time lines are at best a guestimate.
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 109 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 05-May-2002 09:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 103 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
>We're talking about years. I have magazines here which announced the Pegasos
>for late 2000.
Ehm, the Pegasos wasn't even officially announced at that time.
Maybe you thought of the AmigaOne that was first announced for Christmas 2000,
then later was said dev boards at the end of 2000 and consumer version in 2001/Q1...
>Yes, OS 4 was delayed compared to the original schedule announced in November
>2001.
OS4 was originally announced for summer 2001. Then delayed to November although
Mr McEwen said in August that it is nearly finished and Mr Redhouse said in
October that it will not be a November release but very likely a November
release. Then in November you took over development and said that it is very
likely to have initial release of OS4 in Feburary, because you just have to put
the things together. Making a concept for a kernel and emulation environment
and starting writing the kernel is a bit more than putting existing things
together I would say. Then earlier this year, in March, A. Redhouse announced a
new AmigaOne, your developer Mr. Haeuser said that he didn't know about that,
and A. Redhouse that that OS4beta will be available in May for the AmigaOne. I
asked you one month later if this date is still valid, the answer you gave me
was "Alan said probably". Now in May you make several public statements that
DCE is so evil because they don't want to give you developer information. Ben,
you know that this is just normal business. You didn't develop the hardware so
you can't expect to get any information. You don't write official announcements
to blame NVidia or other companies because of not supporting you're operating
system, do you? On the other hand you learned many things from the past. You
don't give exact delivery dates anymore ("when it's finished") which is of
course a good thing, especially if you have not the required hardware or the
documentation about it. On the other hand some people are still thinking that
they can get OS4 for AmigaOne in a very short period of time. IMHO selling the
developer boards in unlimited quantities was a bad idea from Eyetech. If I
follow all the threads here, on amiga.org, on the A1 ML I get the impression
that the majority of people that ordered the AmigaOne were not developers but
normal users. You can't give users a less stable product to beta test because
they will heavily complain, they want stable beta tested products and not for
examples just parts of the OS or something like that. Sure you can always say
the users will also complain if they aren't able to buy the AmigaOne. However
it is IMHO better to sell the AmigaOne dev boards really just to developers, so
you could always say: "Yes we have developers with the board, testing our
software, writing their software and you will be able to buy the end user
version of the board in ...". But that's just my opinion and I guess you and
Alan had various reasons to follow the other way.
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 110 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 05-May-2002 09:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 107 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
>In fact, only 4 people in Hyperion know the status of the kernel and nobody
>else barring myself
Then ask one of these four why the HAL is delayed.
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 111 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 05-May-2002 09:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 108 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
>Unless they used a StarTrek duplication technology to duplicate PPC's and
>Northbridges without actually ordering them.
At least I'm confident they would also have the money to order and pay the
manufactures.
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 112 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 05-May-2002 09:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (David Scheibler):
David, you simply don't know what you are going on about.
Eyetech did everything they could to refrain normal users from buying the first batch of AmigaOne's.
In fact, they even went as far as restricting the number of boards to two per dealer!
They always made it clear this would be a limited run targeted at developers and not intended for end-users.
All in all most users understood this message. Some were so enthusiastic that they absolutely had to have one knowing full well about the fact that it would initially ship with Linux.
But all in all, this is a minority.
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 113 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 05-May-2002 09:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 111 (David Scheibler):
So does Eyetech.
I know that's the latest theory in the MorphOS camp.
You guys should really snap out of that fantasy world.
"Did you know that when you press a certain key-combination on the AmigaOne, you see "bPlan" on the screen because bPlan wrote MAI's Openfirmware ROM?"
"Did you know that bPlan produced MAI's Northbridge?"
etc. etc.
This are all things that were taken for fact at one point or another by MorphOS followers.
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 114 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Neko on 05-May-2002 09:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 113 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
What twisted newsgroup or irc channel did you pluck those beauties out of?
Nobody can think of any time when anyone related or otherwise to anything to
do with bPlan or MorphOS, developer or blind-following-retard alike, who said
any such things, ever..
You must hang out in the wierdest places. Shouldn't you be coding an operating
system instead of chatting to these retards?
Oh.. or maybe "SimplePPC" told you.. and you believed him? I can fully believe
the places he hangs around in would attract comments of that nature, but I
seriously thought better of you to take in such tripe :)
Matt
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 115 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 05-May-2002 09:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 112 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
>In fact, they even went as far as restricting the number of boards to two per
>dealer!
Intesting.
Open question to anyone:
Who did order from KDH? Who from Computer City? :)
--
>So does Eyetech.
I'm sure they can. Even if not Amiga or Hyperion would pay them because it
should be more or less certain that they get the money back from the customers
afterwards.
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 116 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Neko on 05-May-2002 09:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 112 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
And what's wrong with Linux? :)
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 117 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Alkemyst on 05-May-2002 10:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (Neko):
he didnt say anything was wrong with linux.
so once again someone taking a small part of text out of context & turning it into a question.
we could all keep doing that for ever & start hitting the 10,000's threads.
but logic to me seems that ppl who are used to amigaOs would have a hard time with linux & thats all.
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 118 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Glames on 05-May-2002 10:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 102 (Frodon):
Hi Frodon,
Sorry but I desagree.
What do I see for several months on ann.lu forum ?
Most of time, a thread begins with a subject related to "Amiga official" (with or without Ben Hermans):AOne, AOS4 developer update, AOS4 screenshot, Fleecy interview, etc. Then, quickly, we see David and Nicolas sending VERY ironical posts. For me, it's simply provocation to make Ben irritated. Ben answers. So, for me, it is clear that it's a -settle of scores-, provocated by "pro-MorphOS team".
You says to me that I should be more impartial (or something equivalent) by mentionning not only the MorphOS men attitude. But, then (comments 100 to 112), you says MorphOS delay is normal and not AmigaOS 4.0 one. Are you so impartial?No. Simply no.
Ok, you want an example of Nicolas/David post but applicated to MorphOS? Subject:Thendic France. "Thendic France, ah yes! Bill Buck, the man of Viscorp who says every where that he was the owner of Amiga ? ;) ;)".
This is just an example of their kind of posts..
that's all
Tchao, tchao
Glames
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 119 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by dirigent on 05-May-2002 10:39 GMT
Hi there!
From a programmer's perspective, I find the explanation given by Mr Hermans very good and plausible. They realised that they could do more than they originally planned, and they saw that it was a good idea to do more. I am looking forward to buy my AmigaOne in the hopefully not too distant future.
Greetings,
dirigent
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 120 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by wouter on 05-May-2002 11:31 GMT
I do wonder what people like David and Kronos are trying to achieve. If you think that by constantly attacking Hyperion, OS4.0 and AmigaOne, you will bring more people to Morphos and pegasos, then please think again. I for one was interested in a pegasos board with OS4.0, but reading these constant attacks, lies and bullshit, i'm beginning to get a really bad feeling about the complete morphos/pegasos.
So if you want to attract people from the amiga platform, please do it another way. It seems to me that you have so little to tell about morphos and pegasos (the good points), that you need to attack the other party.
Or it just means you don't have a life and you have nothing better to do.
This is in no way meant to be offending. Just saying that if you try to make publicity for Morphos/pegasos, then you're not doing it the right way.
And to those people, i also want to say that we are no kiddies anymore. I have an Amiga since 1986 so i think i can make up my own mind on those matters.
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 121 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 05-May-2002 11:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 120 (wouter):
Then, why don't you say the same about Samface, corpse etc?
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 122 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by wouter on 05-May-2002 12:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 121 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
I don't know all the names and i don't care. Just saying that if you want to make publicity for a product, why not talk about the good points of your own product instead of attacking the opposition.
It doesn't work for me and i'm not sure that they have done a good thing for their platform in general.
That's all. The funny part is that people have been practically killing each other (so to speak) for two products that aren't out yet.
What's the use of attacking Hyperion or Eyetech or bplan? Let them all do their work and have some respect for each other.
Only when both products are released, then we will be able to tell who's the best. Now, it's just plain guessing, lies,...
Time will tell :)
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 123 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 05-May-2002 12:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 120 (wouter):
>...lies and bullshit...
Now lets see:
AmiTroll claims he saw PPC-based screenshots.
I (and others) tell him that they where obviously
taken on a 68k-based system.
Bens reply to this is: "C can be ported!"
For me that still translates into:
"Intuition isn't running on a PPC atm but we are
working on it."
I don't see any lies and BS here.
My other post are always replies when Ben (or AInc-fans)
have spread false information or rumours about MorphOS.
This is how i see the Amiga-world:
I don't like Ben (for a good reason btw).
I don't like AInc because they had over 2 years and still
haven't delieverd anything significant (for AmigaOS).
I don't like Eyetech because they held everything back
with their failed A1.0.
I don't like the current A1.5 because of its soldered CPU
and its bad "bangs4bugs" ratio.
I don't like H&P (and AInc.) for the mess they made around
Amithlon.
I don't like bPlan/MorphOS because their late.
I do like Amithlon as it gives me right now what others
only promise (a fast legacy-free Amiga).
I do like the Hyperion-team for the SW they delieverd.
I MIGHT buy a Pegasos/MorphOS if they can deliever some-
thing superior to Amithlon (native apps and so on)
I MIGHT by a A2/AOS4.x if they can deliever something
so much superior to Amithlon that i can put my personal
problems with Ben aside.
So that my pointofview ! You don't have to like it, but
don't even think you could change it ;0)
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 124 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by MIKE on 05-May-2002 12:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 120 (wouter):
You see it from your own point of view, I see it from mine. The problem is the lack of professionalism left among these amiga manufacturers, Ben Hermans needs to take a sabbatical. He needs to realize how bad these accusations, insults to prospective customers, and nonsensical statements to appease some users, hurt the image of his company as a whole. Ralph Schmidt seems to have heeded this advice, and is not playing these games anymore, Ben Hermans should do so also, just shut up and deliver product, that's the best response.
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 125 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by darklite on 05-May-2002 12:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Kronos):
add to that list the fact that mr Hermans always completely ignores questions relating to the progress of 'execsg'...
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 126 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by darklite on 05-May-2002 12:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Anonymous):
>Fleecy seems to be very cautious with his words and does IMHO not sound as
>optimistic as some months ago, does he?
You're confusing him with Bill "Exciting" McEwen.
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 127 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 05-May-2002 12:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 93 (Frodon):
>I personally also think that the announced release date for May isn't realistic at least if we want AmigaOS 4 to be a quality product. This is not flaming at all about AmigaOS 4, this is a respectable opinion of a realistic guy IMHO.
Hello Frodon (you're not a hobbit are you ;)
You're opinion may or may not be quite correct. However, I don't believe you are privie to all the facts. In fact no one in this forum is. Maybe beta testing has been going on longer than you think. So, it might be an idea for everyone (AOS & MOS fans alike) to refrain from commenting on what they know little about. Here's a novel idea....lets wait till there are products before we judge them.
Peace man.
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 128 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 05-May-2002 12:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 127 (KenH):
>Maybe beta testing has been going on longer than you think.
Depends how you define beta testing :)
Mr Hermans said that there are currently no external OS4 beta testers...
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 129 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 05-May-2002 12:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 120 (wouter):
>If you think that by constantly attacking Hyperion, OS4.0 and AmigaOne, you
>will bring more people to Morphos and pegasos, then please think again. I for
>one was interested in a pegasos board with OS4.0, but reading these constant
>attacks, lies and bullshit, i'm beginning to get a really bad feeling about
>the complete morphos/pegasos.
I was seriously interested in the Pegasos, then Ralph Schmidt himself told me that he didn't consider me a potential customer, which according to him gave him the right to say any kind of bullshit on my regard. At this point I rather buy any (or none) kind of junk than put money in his pocket.
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 130 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 05-May-2002 12:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 123 (Kronos):
>I don't like Ben (for a good reason btw).
>I don't like AInc because they had over 2 years and still
>haven't delieverd anything significant (for AmigaOS).
>I don't like Eyetech because they held everything back
>with their failed A1.0.
>I don't like bPlan/MorphOS because their late.
You know, Kronos, either you should live on top of a mountain or you do already, because from here you clearly have absolutely no idea of how the world works. Have you ever had a job in a company that designs and manufactures produucts?
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 131 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 05-May-2002 12:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 123 (Kronos):
>I MIGHT by a A2/AOS4.x if they can deliever something so much superior to >Amithlon that i can put my personal problems with Ben aside.
Right, you accused me in public of having something to do with Amithlon's legal problems whilst a simple e-mail to Bernie Meyer would have cleared this issue up.
If anything, I should have a legal problem with you.
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 132 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 05-May-2002 12:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 131 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Sorry, I meant "personal" problem.
With respect to beta-testing of OS 4, our approach is currently to do extensive internal beta-testing on individual OS modules like the CD filesystem, Roadshow, Intuition etc.
In fact, most developers are using the new modules on their system for daily use and this has already allowed us to identify and correct several bugs.
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 133 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by cheesegrate on 05-May-2002 13:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 122 (wouter):
>I don't know all the names and i don't care. Just saying that if you want to >.make publicity for a product, why not talk about the good points of your own >.product instead of attacking the opposition.
you missed alkis irony my friend...
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 134 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by cheesegrate on 05-May-2002 13:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 132 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
>Sorry, I meant "personal" problem.
sure you did .. ;)
>With respect to beta-testing of OS 4, our approach is currently to do extensive >internal beta- testing on individual OS modules like the CD filesystem, >.Roadshow, Intuition etc.
oh so if os4 is in beta testing then u can give us an release date give or take a 1.5 months?
>>In fact, most developers are using the new modules on their system for daily >>.use and this has already allowed us to identify and correct several bugs.
yes but what about the progress of the ppc exec SG?
nice work on steeling fleecy buzz phrase ('second generation' btw) ;)
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 135 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 05-May-2002 13:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 130 (amigammc):
As i said this MY view of the "Amiga-world"
In this picture it is very clear that almost
all of the "leading" Amiga-related companies
have made some big mistakes in the last two
years.
I don't care why they failed, i only care if
(or if not) they learned their lesson from
it.
I don't like being fooled by false announcments
and FUD-campaigns, but i'm still willing to
invest if someone produces real value in the
near future.
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 136 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 05-May-2002 16:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 118 (Glames):
Hello Glames,
"Sorry but I desagree."
I've read your post and I think you misunderstood what I said. Anyway I'll try to explain by commenting your remarks.
"What do I see for several months on ann.lu forum ?
Most of time, a thread begins with a subject related to "Amiga official" (with or without Ben Hermans):AOne, AOS4 developer update, AOS4 screenshot, Fleecy interview, etc. Then, quickly, we see David and Nicolas sending VERY ironical posts. For me, it's simply provocation to make Ben irritated. Ben answers. So, for me, it is clear that it's a -settle of scores-, provocated by "pro-MorphOS team"."
Yes Nicolas play with Ben Hermans but anyway I didn't caution what Nicolas say. Why are you insisting about them? I don't like seeing people criticising AmigaOS 4 as I don't like seeing people criticising MorphOS. Both exists don't blind your face. Their are AmigaOS 4 flamers but there are also MorphOS flamers. Here is the reality and that's why I ask to stop focusing only on AmigaOS 4 flamers because you are more irritated by them.
"You says to me that I should be more impartial (or something equivalent) by mentionning not only the MorphOS men attitude. But, then (comments 100 to 112), you says MorphOS delay is normal and not AmigaOS 4.0 one. Are you so impartial?No. Simply no."
Yes I was impartial but you misunderstood me. Explanation below:
I've never said that the MorphOS delay is normal, this is a misunderstanding. I said that knowing the status of AmigaOS 4 project it was not rational for Ben Hermans to announce a release date for February in November 2001. And I said that knowing the status of the Pegasos, the March release date was quite rational. That's my opinion knowing the situation. I had already predicted in November that AmigaOS 4 would not be out in February because of the actual status of AmigaOS 4 in that date and the short period of time between November and February, and I was right. I was also a little skeptical for the March release date of the Pegasos but it was more difficult to make a good prediction if it would be out in March because it was pretty much ready. MorphOS ran on it. The hardware design was ready. But unfortunately it seems for some legal and a longer test period it wasn't ready.
So what I said is that the announced date in november for AmigaOS 4 wasn't realistic and Ben Hermans knew that it wasn't realistic himself at this date and it announced it anyway. The Pegasos release date was more realistic. I never said that the Pegasos delay is normal nor that the AmigaOS 4 delay is abnormal. In fact they are both normal knowing the situations ;-) Do you understand what I want to say.
About the actual announced date, knowing the AmigaOS 4 status for a very sure source (that I know you know him too ;) ) I don't think it'll be possible to see AmigaOS 4 in May but rather in August, September or end of the year. It's just an opinion anyway!
"Ok, you want an example of Nicolas/David post but applicated to MorphOS? Subject:Thendic France. "Thendic France, ah yes! Bill Buck, the man of Viscorp who says every where that he was the owner of Amiga ? ;) ;)".
This is just an example of their kind of posts.."
I respect Bill Buck and I don't like this kind of comments. Anyway for Nicolas it's an ironic and funny way of commenting. It's how he is and again a little piece of philosophy, it's the diversity of humanity. But when people read that they should not take it seriously, it's ironic and humoristic not serious. Read the "AFUA visited Thendic-France" thread here and the other 500+ comments thread and see how many flames Samface and some others did on MorphOS and you'll see that there are also MorphOS flamers.
What I want is that people realize the full reality and not just focus on AmigaOS 4 flamers or MorphOS flamers. Both exists and nobody can say there are more AmigaOS 4 flamers than MorphOS flamers or the contrary this is completely subjective. The only thing that can be told is that there are both MorphOS and AmigaOS 4 flamers.
So here a little summary:
- I blame Ben Hermans to give release date knowing that this is not a realistic date.
- I blame AmigaOS 4 and MorphOS flamers. It's useless and stupid to flame.
- I want people to stop saying that there are more X flamers than Y flamers or the contrary. It's stupid and a child attitude like "Mum X is bad he insult me" (or Y).
So stop flaming and have your own opinion less influenced by anyone as possible.
Regards
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 137 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 05-May-2002 16:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 106 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Hello Ben,
"Besides, you are plain wrong. There are interviews with Ralph Schmidt where he also made claims about release dates of MorphOS."
Can people stop to interpret badly what is said???
I didn't talk about MorphOS but Pegasos. Anyway MorphOS was released in 2000 in beta form. I don't read german magazines but in France and on the Internet I just saw release dates of the Beta at this period. But of course it's AFAIK so I may be wrong like anybody else because I'm a hobbit and hobbits are not better than human and make mistakes too ;-)
"Sorry, you are simply not being objective and selectively disregard information because it doesn't fit in your world-view."
As anybody here. Nobody can claim to know everything even yourself. That's why nobody can be fully objective. I'm trying to be as most objective as possible with what I know.
"Really? So why do you accuse me of lieing because the OS 4 timeline slipped?"
Because you don't make realistic estimation and more important you knew that what you announce is unrealistic. If you didn't I personally don't understand. I've tried to be realistic, may be a little pessimistic, with my estimation contrary to you. And for me a realistic release date for AmigaOS 4 for PPC cards is this fall or winter and first part of 2003 for the AmigaOne. It may be pessimistic but I prefer pessimistic estimations than optimistic ones because they don't give bad surprises.
"So when I announced something and it is delayed, I'm a liar but if bPlan does it, it's not an exact science and they can't be blamed."
I never said that. Don't try to interpret what I said please. I said that what announced BPlan was not too much unrealistic and what you have announced was very unrealistic. It's my opinion and it has been proven true. As you said the big problem of BPlan is more to try to get the necessary pieces but your problem is that the product is not finished in term of development.
I would prefer that people do quite pessimistic estimation, I think it's a better way to don't make bad surprises to the potential customers. That apply to both you and BPlan.
So to resume, what i blame about you is that you give estimation that you know (or have all the elements to know) that it's unrealistic. You didn't have good reasons to announce AmigaOS 4 for February in November 2001. BPlan had a lot more good reasons to announce the March release date.
"You can't expect me to take you seriously with this type of slanted logic."
Just read what I commented just here and you'll see that it's perfectly logical but anyway you are not well placed to say that because as I said your announced release dates weren't logical and you knew that (or you had all the element to knew it).
Regards
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 138 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 05-May-2002 16:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 121 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Hey Alkis Tsapanidis, people wanted you to shut up on the mediator mailinglist and you agreed with that because you knew that you were writing b*llshit...maybe you should do exactly the here.
To David Scheibler: Man what's wrong with you....your past posting made at least a little sense, but your sounding soooo despirate these days....And as you might have noticed.....people don't like this Pro-MorhpOS-anti-Hyperion/amigaInc talk of yours.....
So why don't you stop you despirate rants for the sake of keeping some of the credibility for MorphOS............
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 139 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 05-May-2002 17:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 138 (Amifan):
>To David Scheibler (...)
Yes maybe time to make a break. I'll just sit back and enjoy popcorn when for
example the next Amithlon related announcement will be published here :)
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 140 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 05-May-2002 18:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 138 (Amifan):
Ehm, what I said was true and valid. You can check it out EASILY, by seeing
how some threads started. There are many threads that started as anti OS4
flames, mainly by certain people, but you seem to ignore the fact that 2 very
recent threads started as an anti mos flame.
Nobody is "innocent" my friend and don't try to prove otherwise.
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 141 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 05-May-2002 18:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 140 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Hello Alkis,
Thank you very much. You have summary very well what I have tried to make people understand in my previous posts!
Yes nobody is "innocent" and the world is not black and white. There are no MorphOS is evil and AmigaOS 4 is god or AmigaOS 4 is evil and MorphOS is god. In both "camps" there are some flaming and insulting peoples like there are in the entire world. It's simply what is the humanity made of different kind of people and this of course is also the case in the Amiga community (in globality: AmigaOS 4 + MorphOS fans + others).
Regards
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 142 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Alkemyst on 05-May-2002 19:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 141 (Frodon):
just because a few ppl from both sides start flames thats does not mean everone else should
as that will make you just as bad as them.
that does not mean that i would not comment about Aone V Bplan.
but i would not be the one to start anything like that off.
i would just be trying to put some of the facts strate.
when some started say but bplan has this & Aone does not when the specs clearly say otherwise.
the best thing to do is not bring the other in to the thread in the first place.
so what is sameface or a few others start a flame in a MOS thread with a aos4 comment.
dont lower your self by starting a flame in a aso4 thread with a MOS comment & saying but its only fare.
you are just has bad as them.
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 143 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by FireFlares on 05-May-2002 19:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 141 (Frodon):
I have to say I respect BHermans guts to get down on the floor and thrash this out with the zealots, I dont think Id have the energy. For the first time in ten years I can see a product that actually appeals to me. An A1 with a new AOS4. I think the price point is reasonable (working out the inclusion of OS, case, ram etc) the feature list is compelling and I remember the A1000 wasnt exactly cheap and feature rich.
If it comes out within a reasonable time frame then Ben you and the team are GODs. Fact is a product will shut these red necks up instantly.
Till then, good luck
- regards Ollie
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 144 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 05-May-2002 19:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 142 (Alkemyst):
Hello alkemyst,
Sorry but I didn't flame. If anybody takes my opinions as flames i'm very sorry. I try to make my opinions as much constructive as possible. When I advice Ben Hermans to stop to give dates that he know himself that they are unrealistic, it's just a constructive critic that I hope he will take care.
That's not flaming. Not all critics are flaming. Flaming is like what i've denounced in previous post things like: "AmigaOS 4 is shit." or other non constructive opinions/critics.
Myself I try to make my opinions/critics constructive by giving arguments and providing some solutions (for example in the release dates case, advicing to announce dates that are pessimistic because it's a lot less frustrating for potential customers). So I'm sorry but I never and I'll never flame. And it's perfectly legitimate that I and others give their opinion as soon as they give it constructively. That's what I do and that's not that what I denounce. I denounce flaming which is not that as I've explained in the first paragraph.
Regards
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 145 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 05-May-2002 19:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 143 (FireFlares):
Hello,
"I have to say I respect BHermans "
Me too I respect him. I don't like him a lot for the reasons I gave. But not liking a person doesn't mean not respecting it. That's because I respect it that I give my constructive critics on what I didn't like in some of his practices like announcing release date that he know at the time he announce it, that it's unrealistic. And that's why I advised him to stop this kind of practices to stay credible and prefer announcing even a little pessimistic date than a too optimistic one because it's less frustrating IMHO. It's a constructive opinion because: I gave respectable arguments, I proposed a respectable alternative.
Regards
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 146 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Alkemyst on 05-May-2002 19:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 144 (Frodon):
so what is it will be late.
i dont need you telling me about it.
you keeping on telling us its late & stuff will not change anything.
like your doing me a faver. so its late so what you want amiga ppl waiting for it to do about it?
it just that the lateness about aone & aos4 mostly is beeing said be the MOS ppl.
so what if amigaOs4 & aone is late,its not like MOS ppl are needing Aone or AmigaOs4 to further MOS.
you dont get Mac,windows,linux ppl comming here & pointing out all the time about the delays of Aone,Aos4.
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 147 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 05-May-2002 19:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 146 (Alkemyst):
Hello,
"So what is it will be late.
i dont need you telling me about it.
you keeping on telling us its late & stuff will not change anything.
like your doing me a faver. so its late so what you want amiga ppl waiting for it to do about it?"
Why are you and why others should think that they are targetted??? You are not nor others, except Hermans, included in my remarks.
I didn't blame anyone on the late stuff in the community. I only blamed Ben Hermans to announce release dates that he KNOW (or have ALL the elements to KNOW) at the TIME HE GAVE the date that it's an unrealistic release date but he announce it anyway.
I don't target anyone else then Hermans on that.
"so what if amigaOs4 & aone is late,its not like MOS ppl are needing Aone or AmigaOs4 to further MOS."
I'm an Amiga fan. I'm feeling concerned by AmigaOS 4 as well as MorphOS and it's my right. Respect it please, thanks.
Regards
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 148 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Alkemyst on 05-May-2002 19:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 147 (Frodon):
>>I'm an Amiga fan. I'm feeling concerned by AmigaOS 4 as well as MorphOS and it's my right. Respect it please, thanks.
well i could be a amiga,linux,mac,windows fan.
but i doubt many ppl whould be happy about me chatting all the time about ,mac,window & linux all the time.
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 149 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Frans on 05-May-2002 19:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 143 (FireFlares):
I agree, I've pre-ordered from Computer City and I'll wait as long as it takes.
I'm glad Ben Hermans shows up here and puts in his 2 cents. Thanks Ben. With you all the way.
Interview with Fleecy : Comment 150 of 236ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 05-May-2002 19:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 148 (Alkemyst):
Hello Alkemyst,
I just reacted to some comments here. It's a general Amiga news web site and it's my right to reply constructively to some comments and even the "reply to this comment" as be made for that. As soon as I give constructive reactions I contribute to the discussion constructively and that's what a discussion is made for.
Of course I said "constructive reactions" that's exclude any flame. And I repeat I'm against any flame (which are non constructive reactions). And I try to make my reactions as much as possible constructive.
Regards
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