26-Apr-2024 23:18 GMT.		 UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Anonymous, there are 186 items in your selection (but only 136 shown due to limitation) [1 - 50] [51 - 100] [101 - 150] [151 - 186]
[News] Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANNANN.lu
Posted on 20-May-2002 22:17 GMT by SlimJim186 comments
View flat
View list
For those of you lacking the stamina to wade through the 300+ posts-thread on ANN (named "the next ppc amiga" ), Fleecy Moss, CTO at Amiga Inc, made a short surprise visit to dispell some rumours about the BPlan-AInc situation (apparently after getting the thumbs up from AInc:s legal advisors). Snippets from various posts:

[...] "For AmigaOS4, Amiga said that it will welcome ANY and ALL hardware companies which develop hardware. We have spent many hours of email with representatives of bPlan and in all of them, our line has been consistent.

1.We will be very happy to provide bPlan with an OS4 licence, and to have OS4 running on the Pegasos

2.Amiga compatability within MorphOS comes from illegally obtained source tapes and we will use all legal process to prevent it from entering the market.

It is not Amiga Inc preventing AmigaOS4 from running on the Pegasos. As far as Amiga Inc is concerned, we consider the two issues mentioned above as being completely separate."

[...]

"Most of you (with an interest in the truth anyway) have already asked the obvious question. What would Amiga Inc gain from NOT allowing OS4 to run on the Pegasos. Answer - absolutely nothing.

The licence terms for OS4 are the same for bPlan as for Eyetech and anyone else who wishes to sell an Amiga product that runs OS4. It is a typical OEM licence, and presents a level playing field, for producers, for distributors and for customers. You will find NO exclusive deals done for any product that carries the Amiga seal of approval, and no favouritism played to any company or individual.

Any company that says that they approached us and we rejected them is lying. They may not have liked certain elements of the OEM deal, but it is the same deal as everyone else is offered."

[...]

"Anything to do with MorphOS and its 'amiga compatability' will be decided, so it seems, in the courts."

Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 51 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-May-2002 01:43 GMT
Why do they want amiga for ppc, c64 is much better os, please port morphos to c64 or even c128!
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 52 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by ShadesOfGrey on 21-May-2002 01:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (smithy):
>The people that own PCs need off-the-shelf software. That's why they own PCs.
>It's because they need to write their essays for university and work, they
>might want to use modern internet software, and they want to play the latest
>games. With AmigaOS restricted to hardware that this type of thing isn't
>currently available for, who is going to switch? Or, indeed, who is going to
>have both machines? Just for an OS which has no modern apps?
Ok, so what you are saying is that all us Amiga people should just switch to Windows because it, and its software, can be had off the shelf? If Amiga OS were to appear on X86 hardware platform. It doesn't mean that software for the Amiga OS platform would miraculously appear 'on the shelf'. Rather, people would ask, "Why doesn't this thing have 'Windows'???"
To paraphrase:
With AmigaOS on the hardware that this type of thing is currently available for, who is going to switch? Or, indeed, who is going to have both OS'es? Just for an OS which has no modern apps?
>With AmigaOS/PC, there'd be a massive number of new potential users, not to
>mention new developers interested in an modern, viable alternative to Windows
>and Unix that is already accessible to most people. Perhaps OpenBeOS or AtheOS
>will seize this market?
Hmm... It didn't work with Be OS. So how can you be so sure that OpenBeOS or AtheOS will be so successful? Besides, how complete are OpenBeOS and AtheOS, seriously? I haven't kept up with either project so I don't know myself.
Anyway, lets assume that they are in about the same shape Amiga OS 4 is for the PPC. Lets further assume that upon release they won't be perfect but demonstrate their great potential. So perhaps by the time Amiga OS 4.5 is ready for release, and has a decent number of applications. AOS 4.5 (and apps) could be ported to X86 hardware around the same time that OBOS and AtheOS are equally stable and supported.
Of course since AOS 4.5 is a commercial product and not an Open Source project it will have a harder time maintaining a presence in the X86 world. Myabe it will gain a signifacant foothold, or maybe it will fall flat. But if AOS 4.5 for the X86 should fail, AOS 4.5 for PPC will still be around to fall back on.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 53 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by ShadesOfGrey on 21-May-2002 01:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (SlimJim):
Yup... But then, what else is new? ;-)
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 54 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by Nathaniel Downes on 21-May-2002 02:04 GMT
You know Fleecy, by US and German laws, you just crippled any case you might have against MorphOS. Discussing a case before it's brought to court is illegal in both countries, and is terms for immediate dismissal of a court case if brought.
Thanks fleecy, I'm sure the MorphOS team is pleased.
(And note, I am not a Lawyer, I just checked with a lawyer in my family, as it looked slanderous)
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 55 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by ShadesOfGrey on 21-May-2002 02:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (smithy):
>Actually, the BeOS userbase grew massively when BeOS was ported to the PC.
I'll agree with this. But was this 'massive' increase really that large comparted to the total number of Windows users? How many users were actaully using BeOS on an exclsive basis? Finally how many were just messing around with the latest geek OS for the X86?
>And what apps are you planning to buy for OS4?
>On an AmigaOS/PC system, there would be few apps to start with, however, once
>the userbase grew more would be developed. Just as is the case with Linux.
What apps are you planning to buy for OS4 on X86 hardware?
On an AmigaOS/PPC system, there would be few apps to start with, however, once the userbase grew more would be developed. Just as is the case with Linux PPC.
>>They leave AmigaOS on their hard drive for a few months, occasionally booting
>>into it to mess around. Eventually then need the hard drive space back to
>>install a new game so they delete the AmigaOS partition to make way for Quake
>>4.
>That didn't happen with Linux, or even BeOS, when it was around.
I'm afraid that no matter how I say this it will be grossly insulting. So I'm going to be very blunt.
You are f*cking joking right??? If what you're saying is true, no Linux or BeOS user who ever installed said OS'es on X86 hardware has stopped using and deleted those OS'es in order to continue using Windows??? Is this also true of QNX, Solaris, NeXT/OPENSTEP, etc.??? Then why, WHY the f*ck is Windows still so f*cking dominant?!?!?!
Pardon the langauge, but I did say I was going to be blunt. I will try to refrain from using such language in the remainder of this message.
>The computing enthusiasts market is there for the taking. They don't expect
>apps overnight, indeed many of them are developers looking for a new system to
>develop on. There is a tremendous opportunity here.
I am a 'computing enthusiast' and I don't see why any other "computing enthusiasts" wouldn't also want to enthusiastically use an alternative hardware platform like PPC.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 56 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 21-May-2002 02:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (Nathaniel Downes):
Come on Downix, it's not like Amino has either the balls, the money, or ownership of the IP to bring suit against MorphOS crew in Germany.
Dammy
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 57 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by ShadesOfGrey on 21-May-2002 02:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (smithy):
>So you are planning on using existing apps, and not buying any new ones? I'm
>sure potential software developers would love to hear that. Another reason not
>to develop for non- mainstream hardware.
Amiga user 1: I can't wait to use AmigaOS 4 and my WOS version of ABCXYZ 1.23 on my new PPC hardware.
Amiga user 2: Yeah me too!
Amiga user 1: I hope I don't have to pay for an upgrade to ABCXYZ 1.67 though...
Amiga user 2: I don't care, I'll pay for 1.67. It has just the features I need.
Amiga user 1: That's fine for you, but if I'm going to pay for an upgrade, I'm going to wait for ABCXYZ 2.0 which is supposed to be specifically for Amiga OS 4.0.
Who's to say that many users will not fit in either of these camps? Those users comfortable with what they have until Amiga OS 4 PPC versions are available. And those willing to upgrade sooner to 'legacy' PPC versions as a stop gap. Especially when I don't see any reason why the same scenario wouldn't play out for Amiga OS X86.
Amiga user 1: I can't wait to use AmigaOS 4 and my 68k version of ABCXYZ 1.23 on my new Amiga X86 hardware.
Amiga user 2: Yeah me too!
Amiga user 1: I hope I don't have to pay for an upgrade to ABCXYZ 1.67 though...
Amiga user 2: I don't care, I'll pay for 1.67. It has just the features I need.
Amiga user 1: That's fine for you, but if I'm going to pay for an upgrade, I'm going to wait for ABCXYZ 2.0 which is supposed to be specifically for Amiga OS 4.0 on X86 and PPC.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 58 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by ShadesOfGrey on 21-May-2002 02:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (ShadesOfGrey):
>And those willing to upgrade sooner to 'legacy' PPC versions as a stop gap.
This should read, 'And those willing to upgrade sooner to 'legacy' PPC or 68k versions as a stop gap.'
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 59 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by NeRP on 21-May-2002 03:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (Nathaniel Downes):
>You know Fleecy, by US and German laws, you just crippled any case
>you might have against MorphOS. Discussing a case before it's brought
>to court is illegal in both countries, and is terms for immediate
>dismissal of a court case if brought.
>Thanks fleecy, I'm sure the MorphOS team is pleased.
>(And note, I am not a Lawyer, I just checked with a lawyer in my
>family, as it looked slanderous)
Well, speaking of slanderous.... why not sue me for calling you a
thief? I'm sure Baggy is enjoying his PPC card that he bought off
you. What happened with that? How come he never got it? All these
empty promises of PPC's for sale and that stupid Eddas. You're an
idiot. Don't post here you thief. Oh yeah, ask your lawyer friend
about the legality of fucking stealing from people, ok?
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 60 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by Check the archives on 21-May-2002 03:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (Nathaniel Downes):
Check the ANN archives. Ralph has mentioned previously that he has seen the Amiga OS source code in part or in full. I'm not sure what the circumstances of his viewing was. I only know I saw it on ANN in one of his comments some time ago. I'm not sure how far back the archives go, but I think it was about 1.5 to 2.5 years ago. It stands out in my memory as he mentioned that he wasn't suppost to see/have access to it, but was shown it by someone or company that did have access to it.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 61 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by sh33p on 21-May-2002 03:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (NeRP):
Yeah, Downix err..Down the car salesman, lawyer, rock star, engineer, pr0n star etc. did a good job of ripping off Baggy. However, he won't stop hearing about it until he pays him back. So, like pay Baggy back...I'm sure you made tons of coin selling Mazda rustbuckets last year.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 62 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by From the Archives on 21-May-2002 03:57 GMT
<a href="http://anna.amigazeux.org/comments2.cgi?view=0955547535&category=unmoderated&59">http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=0955547535&category=unmoderated&59</a>
More details about MorphOS revealed : Comment 12 of 59
Posted by Ralph Schmidt (Unknown IP) on 12-Apr-2000
In Reply to Comment 11:
First..I prefer to know with whom i'm talking. You act as an
annonymous entity while i play with open carts.
;Rather an amusing statement considering I've never seen you spout off a ;joke or two (except maybe in IRC once).
You probably just don't understand my humour...
;For one thing, instead of offering free software or hardware offer a ;developer fee (heck, Amiga is going to get away with it)
Sorry..but you probably didn't understand what i wrote there.
I described the events which took place between Phase5 and Haage
which lead to the mess up.
;...
;if not flawless under the emulation then why would I want to stick with ;PowerUP/MorphOS as the "standard".
This is not about "standards"...MorphOS will give you
supiror performance over your 680xx if you have a 68040
cyberstormppc and for a 060 it will give you that depending
how many time consuming modules/apps are native.
As the text describes...you get full native performance
devices, libraries....there's no "bridge", "context switch"
or whatever you may call the code which switches from a 68k
task(emulated or not) to a PPC task as every task under
the morphos amiga runs transparent in 68k or ppc ""mode"".
There's no context difference...
;Then please, tell us, oh wise one, how exactly will these other PPC cards ;that are due out shortly work with on board SCSI under WarpOS? For that ;matter, how will MorphOS handle this dilemma as well? Also, what would ;give me the complete satisfaction that P96 v2.0 will be 100% accurate ;under MorphOS? Side note: I won't use CGX as it is just way too unstable, ;even with v4.1.
I were 2 times at MetaBox the last 6 weeks and should have a
certain knowledge about the state of their work and plans which
i surely won't reveal in a public forum as it was a closed meeting.
well..i gave you the facts about the driver issues...now you only
have to combine them with what's announced and what's *real*.
Look..i could also have announced an emulated amigaos booting
may 1999 but that surely leads nowhere as it's no usable product.
Well..about P96...there is NO real gurantee that 68k gfx drivers
work at all *BECAUSE* of the PPC access speeds.
We saw really strange problems caused by such speed synchronisation sideeffects.
But well..if you prefer a 68k P96 over a PPC *native* CyberGraphX
you really have a problem. If 4.1 is way too unstable for you why
don't you help Frank fixing the problems you have for whatever HW
you run.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 63 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by What I ment to post from the Archives on 21-May-2002 04:00 GMT
http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=0955547535&category=unmoderated&59
More details about MorphOS revealed : Comment 9 of 59
Posted by Ralph Schmidt (Unknown IP) on 12-Apr-2000
In Reply to Comment 7:
About legal issues...
Look..it's our own property what we do.
What has a C Exec compatability layer
and dozens of patches, a ram handler,
cdromfilesystem, scsi devices, cybergraphics,
mui, math function patches to do with their
intellectual property ?
MorphOS still needs the amigaos rom so
the only issue is extending its usage on
different hardware or os enviroments and
that's perfectly legal under the EU law
which even supports resourcing in such cases.
Anyway...the so called intellectual property
of the OS stands on weak grounds expecially
after 68k AmigaOS is basicly dead for *7* years.
The 3* Dr. Ruprecht Books which covered commented
disassembled listings of exec, dos, fs, handlers,
all kinds of devices and graphics for 1.3 were
available for years in germany.
Amiga Intern by Dr. Becker contained also a disassembled
exec listing....and that was probably the most sold
amiga book despites its general quality:-)
CBM released the exec src in printed form to early
developers.
Part of the WB tools weren't really copyrighted by
CBM as they were based on the old arp stuff by the
software distillery.
WB and ROM licences are in the hands of several
people....
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 64 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by Guido on 21-May-2002 04:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (smithy):
> The people that own PCs need off-the-shelf software. That's why they own PCs.
> It's because they need to write their essays for university and work, they
> might want to use modern internet software, and they want to play the latest
> games. With AmigaOS restricted to hardware that this type of thing isn't
> currently available for, who is going to switch? Or, indeed, who is going to
> have both machines? Just for an OS which has no modern apps?
And these same people won't spend 80 Euros either on AOS4 for the same reasons if it was made for X86... If people wanted to buy AmigaOS for X86, they can show that by buying AmigaXL, AFAIK, only Amiga users bought this..
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 65 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-May-2002 04:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 63 (What I ment to post from the Archives):
the dissasembling of source to recompile a program to make it
run on a hardware platform that it already runs on or soon will run on
is not legal in EU, don't kid yourself.
morphos is not legal exactly because of this,
if the morphos team had instead disassembled windows95 and made a port of that
to ppc then they would have been legal in your EU sense (even though this is
a grey area since some EU countries only allow if for applications/data).
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 66 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous coder on 21-May-2002 05:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 63 (What I ment to post from the Archives):
> disassembled listings
This is *not* source code.
> Amiga Intern by Dr. Becker
This book (and obviously its' contents) was OK'd by Commodore.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 67 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 21-May-2002 05:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (Nathaniel Downes):
Plaintiffs discussing the evidence when a case has been brought is illegal. Highlighting what the
legal claim is before the case has started is not illegal. I suggest you get over
your bias and read what Fleecy actually wrote.
Dave.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 68 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by Lukas Stehlik on 21-May-2002 05:09 GMT
I like Pegasos, its another new Amiga and I will buy it.
Thanks to all people, who decide to make this super-computer.
Sorry for my bad english. Bye.
Luky
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 69 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 21-May-2002 05:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Christophe Decanini):
Im glad you cant because whomever you "ban" will be seen to be political. The ANN
userbase does a pretty good job of policing the idiots, flaming them or ignoring them
but you *could* help us make it better by allowing comment ratings to be assigned by
either the moderators or the users.
A political war that was started by the Party On episode ( or at least escalated heavily )
will if you get in the middle just put you in a position where you get accused by
both sides. Look what happenned to Wayne when he banned various idiots from Amiga.org.
The FUD war with its current points will go on being repeated ad nauseum until the
products are either dropped or released, the court case started and ended. What will happen
then? Well the FUD war will move on to different points.
I think it would be wrong to ban clearly tongue in cheek "light the touch paper" comments
from known entities such as Corpse, Amifan, Nicholas and the like it would be more
appropriate to police those that *start* personal attacks on people and post anonymous
drivel.
The hopeless anti-fleecy juvenile crap in the 60s in this thread is a good candidate.
Not trying to tell you what to do, just give you my view of what works and what does not.
Dave.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 70 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 21-May-2002 05:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (Lukas Stehlik):
Well good for you but tell me did you think that when you add on a 1260 accelerator
card you are adding on a new Amiga? Did you think that when you use UAE you are using
a new Amiga? What about a Draco?
Or is it just an Amiga "compatible"?
Or is it just a PPC board on which you can run UAE or ABox to emulate the Amiga?
Or is it as you claim a new Amiga?
And what has that got to do with this thread anyway?
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 71 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 21-May-2002 05:33 GMT
There is an awful lot of FUD posted about PPC vs x86 on here.
1. They are two different architectures so direct MHz comparisons are meaningless.
2. The IA32 architecture is currently what is on your PC at the instruction set level.
3. PPC development is not at risk nor is the future uncertain.
4. PPC derived hardware is mainstream in the following markets:
o pervasive & embedded
o consumer desktop
o workstations
o servers
o clustered enterprise servers
o super-computers
5. IBM manufacture PPC CPUs to cope with all these markets.
6. The choice between x86 and PPC is not relevant to the end user unless that
end user wants to run WINE or dual boot into Windows.
7. PPC based consumer motherboard bundles are more expensive than x86 because of
the lower scale consumer production runs.
8. Higher end ( Power4 and up ) PPC chips are architecturally superior as well as
being better suited for SMP applications.
Sure, if you own an x86 PC already or want to run Windows at the same time as
AmigaOS and you dont want to buy new hardware to run Linux and AmigaOS on a platform
where you cannot run Windows then you *are* going to want AmigaOS x86.
Beyond people with a vested interest the rest of it is bigotry.
Dave.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 72 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by kjetil on 21-May-2002 05:42 GMT
Three are tow things that irritates me,
First of all this tread, was meant to be Pegasus/AmigaOS4.0, comment tread
Not i686 VS PPC, I feel the i686 discussion is dead after hardware relies of Aone any way,
The path has bean chosen, it PPC.
The 2en thing that irritates me is the fact that SlimJim Do not post how posted watt in the news item, do not feel like reading the 300 post tread to se were the makeup comes from.
The things I will like to se in this tread is comments from Ben/H, or even an official statement on the matter, I really like to know the direction of this Pegasus.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 73 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by Akaru on 21-May-2002 05:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (smithy):
>>What would you consider mainstream hardware ? i reckon the poot'in inside
>>modern kitchen stuff , tv's etc is more mainstream then x86 , doesn't mean i
>>want my choice of os on it.
>
>A standard tactic. Trying to divert attention from the real issue. However, if >you want to be pedantic, I'd define mainstream hardware as hardware that I can >run software on that I can buy on the high street. Read: PC hardware. I >deliberately call it "mainstream hardware" because it's irrelevant that it is PC >hardware. It just so happens that PC hardware is accessible to the majority of >computing enthusiasts. If it was the case that PPC hardware was mainstream, then >I'd argue for that. I'm not bothered about the PC, I'm bothered about seeing new >users and new software for AmigaOS.
A standard tactic of saying "A standard tactic etc..." Please it was a legitimate point about hardware its asking the question what is mainstream hardware? which you answer last.
>>And maybe we don't want to be mainstream, many linux people are afraid of this
>>spoiling the os .. Leave de for them and the interested of us and rape the
>>benefits.
>
>Yes, the elite wants to keep things the way they are. Close out new users and >ideas that using mainstream hardware would bring. And if it closes out new >software and growth? Well, this is another issue the elite doesn't want to >address.
Afrad your not l337 enough huh? Making new and exciting arguments with no base in fact or truth doesn't make your cause any more correct.
Face it you've become obsessed with an idea without thinking it through, AmigaOS would never survive on your "main stream" hardware. Running on an x86 isn't going to increase its desirability for Mr Average Joe, your living in a dream world.
To be installed on x86 it would have to be done after purchase which would mean the end user would have to do it, which would mean they would have to be seriously clued up about computers, which means that your target audience is again very small, look at the number of people capable of actually setting it up how many are actually going to want to do it? Not many perhaps only the people already interested in Amiga. So your left with no new market. Just the same one as before.
>>BTw. I would consider amigaONE , peagsos and macs mainstream hardware in that
>>they use *standard* sorta stuff and not the custom chips of yesteryear , does
>>the cpu choice really change that ?
>
>Is it mainstream? The acid test:
>
>1. Do >90% of the computing owning public own one? (PC=yes, Mac=no, A1=No).
>2. Can I buy software on the high street for it? (PC=yes, Mac=limited, A1=No).
Wow your really <insert modifier>. What your saying is you won't be happy until you go out there and buy a PC then?
So go buy a PC and stop making these <insert modifier> comments that prove nothing but your <insert modifier>.
Maybe all you x86 evangelists should just start using x86 OS's, like windows or linux, or AROS, I mean then you can stop with your pointless diatribes and actually do something worthwhile. Because your obviously more interested in have fast cheap and quckly outdated hardware, than having AmigaOS.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 74 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 21-May-2002 05:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 72 (kjetil):
It was supposed to be a MorphOS vs AmigaOS thread was it? Well I must have misread the rules of engagement
that were (not) posted for this thread.
If you want to know the latest status of MorphOS and Pegasos then perhaps you should
be sending e-mails to BPlan?
Why do you want a statement from Ben who is not the official mouthpiece on this? Is this
so you can then flame him for following up or posting on a public forum?
How many times do we have to go around the same loop for you!
You know what, I want to see news items like
"AmigaONE released to public"
"AmigaOS4 released to public"
"MorphOS released to public"
etc
Not this endless speculation, trolling and flamebaiting.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 75 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 21-May-2002 05:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (Christophe Decanini):
I'm sorry if you don't like harsh comments but face it when we do have a nice little talk someone like kronos , darklite etc spouts some mos crap ... And you never say their in the wrong so i guess your anti-ai aos4 too then.
You should also note that i am a pissed of person now:
A: Blizzard is slowly killing the forth mobo
B: These pieces of junk are now being advertised here !!
C: I get flamed for saying their a piece of junk from people that have never had one ( or a bad one ).
Check the records i used to be nice , but getting your head stood on by arses ( all of them coming from the mos camp ) gets very old very fast and i know other people that would love to let rip and piss off such people like i do but i think they're afraid of getting bashed by you for doing so ... Strange how it never works the other way round isn't it ?
Maybe you just don't like people sticking up for amiga , and you therefor don't mind flame starting by various othersiders .
Before i had my year out of the amiga thing , it was a good place ran by amiga users helping each other out , i must have given away 2 a1200's and a stack of memory / cpu cards and it felt good . Coming back we have wayne of a.o spouting shit about the protection rom , windows users running the shop and little kids running around.For this reason many people i know have just left a chucked their amiga's away , this deeply saddens me.
Add if we're not allowed to have a go at mos like they have had a go at amiga os a few posts ago and got away with it , this is a very bias board , and maybe one i don't want to come to any longer .
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 76 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by Akaru on 21-May-2002 05:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (smithy):
>The people that own PCs need off-the-shelf software. That's why they own PCs. >It's because they need to write their essays for university and work, they might >want to use modern internet software, and they want to play the latest games. >With AmigaOS restricted to hardware that this type of thing isn't currently >available for, who is going to switch? Or, indeed, who is going to have both >machines? Just for an OS which has no modern apps?
Ohh please, They only choose the hardware that windows runs on, most people don't make a concious choice, they don't even make a concious choice of windows they make a concious choice of using Microsoft office which requires windows which requires x86. The only thing they know about hardware is that its a 2gHz processor with 256 mb of ram and a 2GB disk, a lot of people don't even know the difference between those three.
Choosing x86 is not going to get mainstream applications on Amiga any faster than choosing PPC. People aren't going to choose Amiga cos it runs on x86, people are going to run whatever OS runs Microsoft windows, or Adobe Photoshop, and thats not Amiga.
So your argument is crap.
>>Also when we getta GTK ( among other *mainstream* libs ) port we'll be able to
>>compile and use alot of unix-like os apps too :)
>
>Ahhh yes, and who is going to port these mainstream libraries? Why haven't they >done it over the past 10 years? And what makes you think they'd do it for >MOS/OS4/PPC?
>
Hrm well you'd imagine it would be anyone with a compiler, I imagine very little changes would need to be made to the source to compile them. In the past the Amiga has had librarys that allowed linux/unix software to be ported across Ixemul for one if I rememebr correctly and also xwindows servers.
>With AmigaOS/PC, there'd be a massive number of new potential users, not to >mention new developers interested in an modern, viable alternative to Windows >and Unix that is already accessible to most people. Perhaps OpenBeOS or AtheOS >will seize this market?
You obviously have no idea what your talking about, developers are interested in making money, forging new ground with niche OS's doesn't do that. And with the current downturn in the industry, they aren't even going to waste the time to even look sideways at AmigaOS.
The only people who would develop for Amiga would be people interested in Amiga already. Maybe if it actually was any good, and it got popular others might consider it but thats a long way off.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 77 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 21-May-2002 05:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Guido):
> And these same people won't spend 80 Euros either on AOS4 for the
> same reasons if it was made for X86...
Well, I'm one of those people who WOULD spend the 80 Euros, but the £700 or so for OS4 and a PPC system to run it on? No chance.
> If people wanted to buy AmigaOS for X86, they can show that by buying AmigaXL,
As people have pointed out time and again when making your point, AmigaXL is just an emulation stuck on OS 3.9
> AFAIK, only Amiga users bought this..
That's right. Who else would buy it when only Amiga users know it exists? How many people that don't already use an Amiga are going to pay £100 for something they haven't even seen running, that hasn't had any reviews. that nobody knows anything about?
The reason only Amigans have bought it is that the company responsible for marketing haven't bothered doing any.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 78 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by Robert Wilson on 21-May-2002 06:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Anonymous):
Hi, Troels,
I couldn't give a badger's tadger for all the legal wrangling. I just want to see
OS4 out & working well on decent hardware. However, I have to confess that I
don't think an x86 port would survive very long.
BTW,
> Brondby IF, Champions Once Again, Michael Laudrup new coach, what a week:) --
Congrats! Michael's little brother, Brian, was one of the finest footballers to
ever grace the game here in Scotland.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 79 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 21-May-2002 06:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 75 (cOrpse):
On the other hand he hasnt done anything about it ;-)
Im think there are a lot of flame-boys on here
who are Anti-Amiga Inc because they like to belong in a gang and they felt they
were winning some kind of gang war during Party On and now its not so clear cut
so they fall into bluster. Its the kind of coalescing into groups that you see
on IRC. Playground schoolyard bullying.
This is where i differ from you though.
I see the A1G3 and AOS4 as a good starting point to begin building killer apps
and tools and a constructive user base. So, I feel more productive so my PC hardware
no longer has main access to the flat panel display.
When I go home and start coding I switch on the Amiga and start developing on WUP.
Why?
Well if the overwhelming majority of flamers, lamers, pirates and trolls go one way
then I want to go the other way.
Why?
Because I want to be part of building up a new platform with *helpful* users not
the cretins.
But isnt this just broad generalisation?
I asked myself that, I dont think so. I think the majority of name callers on here
are the ones that resort to saying Fleecy sucks c**k, trash the Amiga.org website
with childish images and cannot argue their way out of a paper bag.
They see the current legal predicament of MorphOS as a rallying cry in the same
way that so called "Software Freedom Fighters" rally around Linux as is it is some
kind of without sin environment.
Ugly.
Very ugly.
MorphOS and Pegasos's prospective user base has given itself an image problem on ANN.
On the other hand the user base of Amithlon, Mediator add ons and to a large extent
the prospective user base of Amiga OS and AmigaONE does not appear to resort to similar
tactics unless provoked.
Who started the BAF cr*p for example?
If the user base of MorphOS and Pegasos policed itself and managed the noisy few cretins
so it didnt have this image problem I might be tempted to buy into that platform
too in the same way that 18 months ago I had given up on Amiga Inc and was looking
to MorphOS as the next route.
Dave.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 80 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by Akaru on 21-May-2002 06:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (smithy):
>Without the massive growth that the PC can provide, who is going to write this >software? There has been very little new software in the past 5 years, so why >should we think any different over the next 2 with OS4 not aimed at hardware that >people already own.
The same people who have been writing software all along for the Amiga I would imagine.
Don't go thinking that massive growth is advantageous to the developer, because its not, if you have long projects then in a year the platform your targeting has already moved on and your software is out of date. Whilst there are advantages mainly that you can afford not to optimise your code, its a two edged sword, and its something the developers who have stayed with the Amiga would not be able to handle.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 81 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 21-May-2002 06:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 80 (Akaru):
And given that the PC market is now in its decline phase I dont think massive
growth on x86 for a proprietary OS is possible.
AOS has to build momentum first on PPC where it is only competing with MacOS.
Build credibility and then expand.
Dave.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 82 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by Anony Mouse on 21-May-2002 06:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (DaveW):
1. They are two different architectures so direct MHz comparisons are meaningless.
Yes. I think we all know. But the fastest x86 CPU is in the most cases faster than the fastest PPC and it is a lot cheaper.
2. The IA32 architecture is currently what is on your PC at the instruction set level.
Yes.
3. PPC development is not at risk nor is the future uncertain.
I think it is a risk.
4. PPC derived hardware is mainstream in the following markets:
o pervasive & embedded
You heard about ARM and MIPS? No PPC isn't mainstrem in this market.
o consumer desktop
x86 is mainstream in this market.
o workstations
x86 is mainstream in this market.
o servers
I see no mainstream cpu here. But at the low end x86 is mainstream.
o clustered enterprise servers
Alpha, mybe PPC in the future but also x86.
o super-computers
The IBM Power CPU's aren't Power _PC_ CPU's.
5. IBM manufacture PPC CPUs to cope with all these markets.
No. IBM manufactures no actual Power PC CPU that is well suited for the Desktop.
6. The choice between x86 and PPC is not relevant to the end user unless that
end user wants to run WINE or dual boot into Windows.
Yes. Why not use x86 because its cheaper?
7. PPC based consumer motherboard bundles are more expensive than x86 because of the lower scale consumer production runs.
Yes. Why not use x86 because its cheaper?
8. Higher end ( Power4 and up ) PPC chips are architecturally superior as well as being better suited for SMP applications.
Power4 is no Power _PC_ CPU. It's no CPU for a desktop. Its very expensive. We will see if the AMD Hammer Architecture is a better SMP architecture then the Power PC architecture.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 83 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 21-May-2002 06:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 82 (Anony Mouse):
You see there you go again.
Mainstream != owner of market.
You also say "I think it is at risk"
You dont say why.
Ford is a mainstream car manufacturer.
Fiat is a mainstream car manufacturer.
Volkswagon is a mainstream car manufacturer.
Thats why what you are saying is FUD, irrelevant and just more flamebait.
Dave.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 84 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by Akaru on 21-May-2002 06:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (smithy):
>>OK, just say for a moment that PC's get their own AmigaOS.
>>99.9% of PC users will ignore it, just as they did BeOS.
>>The other 0.1% install it as dual boot with Windows.
>
>Actually, the BeOS userbase grew massively when BeOS was ported to the PC.
Actually this argument doesn't work, If you want to start talking about BeOS, first consider that it didn't work for them, you know the whole bankruptcy thing. And second know that you know dick about BeOS and what really happened. I've already had this argument on Moobunny, and the fact is x86 did both good and bad things for BeOS, it might have worked if it wasn't for MS's OEM monopolising, which mean't BeOS wasn't shipped with any hardware ready to go. Which meant that the installs had to be completed after it was shipped to the end user. Which really didn't work well at all.
>>But, they dont buy any apps or games for it or course, since they already have
>>the Windows versions which came out a year earlier.
>
>And what apps are you planning to buy for OS4?
>
>On an AmigaOS/PC system, there would be few apps to start with, however, once >the userbase grew more would be developed. Just as is the case with Linux.
I intend to buy all the titles from hyperion at least photgenics perhaps if it comes out for AmigaOS, Image FX, perhaps, all sorts, not to mention shareware.
>>They leave AmigaOS on their hard drive for a few months, occasionally booting
>>into it to mess around. Eventually then need the hard drive space back to
>>install a new game so they delete the AmigaOS partition to make way for Quake
>>4.
>That didn't happen with Linux, or even BeOS, when it was around.
Yes it did.
>>Thats the "future" of AmigaOS on x86.
>There is a massive market of computing enthusiasts that use x86 machines. You >only have to read message boards like Slashdot and osOpinion.com to see that >many users are looking for an alternative to Windows and Linux. Systems like >OpenBeOS and Atheos are looking to fill this void. There is a massive potential >here for AmigaOS.
>
These people like to believe they care about OS's but really they don't an OS should be unobtrusive, efficient and intuitive, it should really be transparent. What they really want is an easy way to use their computer, to use their apps.
>The computing enthusiasts market is there for the taking. They don't expect apps >overnight, indeed many of them are developers looking for a new system to >develop on. There is a tremendous opportunity here.
Well depends, its a very small niche market, and really the computer enthuisasts, are more likely to be using windws and playing the latest FPS games or installing Linux and being part of he open source movement than get involved with an old under developed OS. I don't think its there for the taking, Agai I question your knowledge about the markets and marketing.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 85 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by Anders Kjeldsen on 21-May-2002 06:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 79 (DaveW):
>If the user base of MorphOS and Pegasos policed itself and managed the noisy
>few cretins so it didnt have this image problem I might be tempted to buy
>into that platform too in the same way that 18 months ago I had given up
>on Amiga Inc and was looking to MorphOS as the next route.
I don't think you would. You're smarter than that.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 86 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by Henning Nielsen Lund on 21-May-2002 06:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 82 (Anony Mouse):
>4. PPC derived hardware is mainstream in the following markets:
>o pervasive & embedded
>You heard about ARM and MIPS? No PPC isn't mainstrem in this market.
Try to look at this site, just some examples ;o)
[URL]http://www.denx.de/embedded-ppc-en.html[/URL]
>5. IBM manufacture PPC CPUs to cope with all these markets.
>No. IBM manufactures no actual Power PC CPU that is well suited for the >Desktop.
What do you call the "PowerPC 7xx High Performance Microprocessors"?
[URL]http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/products/powerpc/consumer.html[/URL]
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 87 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by Budda on 21-May-2002 06:49 GMT
Aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh.
Shut up, Shut up, Shut up, Shut up, Shut up, Shut up, Shut up, Shut up, all of you.
What is the benefit of the same discussion every few days? I thought somethng new might come form the thread, but after reading all 80+ comments ... it's the same cr*p again :-/
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 88 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 21-May-2002 06:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 87 (Budda):
Perhaps you shouldnt read the comments. ;-)
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 89 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 21-May-2002 07:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 82 (Anony Mouse):
I'm 100% sure it is not sensible to develop custom x86 motherboard for Amiga, so how would you then handle variations of motherboards?
(by supporting only one - two boards at a time ?
how long does their production run last, three months?)
Clearly it is not possible to support more than 1% of them. Perhaps 1% of available x86 motherboard brands/models? Still it might be overwhelming for niche market to support those.
Then, how would you stop piracy?
(it does not hurt windows world, because the market is so huge, but it would surely kill AmigaOS market niche)
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 90 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by Leif on 21-May-2002 07:11 GMT
Aaaargh... do you people really think you make
a difference whith your stupid post about crap over
and over again to no end. Lets see some action instead
of this theorethical dispute that everyone looses.
Must everybody think *your* way ? Arent you happy
until *everybody* sees things *your* way ?
It aint gonna happen! *never* *ever* *in hell*
/me slaps ya all in the face, wake up dammit! :)
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 91 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by Allen on 21-May-2002 07:16 GMT
Well. I think that this is good news...i.e. the original post. As it shows Amiga are willing to use Pegasos. Nice one!
Also, do you guys think OS4.0 will be as feature rich as beOS?
If not then please stop comparing them!!! No-one bar us mad-Amigans wants OS4.0
I know I don't...well I do but only coz I'm mad.
What possible advantage would I get from OS4.0 that Windows/beOS/OSX could not do?
None. In fact OS4.0 will be just like 3.9, single user, no apps, no games, no serious development tools, no database tools, no word, no office apps, no business solutions, unstable, slow, no use, basically everthing I love about the Amiga! (OK, no MicroSoft too ;) )
I'm only getting OS4.0 coz I love it. Not because it will be useful! And it certainly wont beat Windows functionality for a LONG LONG time, if ever.
Not everyone loves it. :(
Remember that before you flame!
Allen
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 92 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 21-May-2002 07:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (DaveW):
"6. The choice between x86 and PPC is not relevant to the end user unless that
end user wants to run WINE or dual boot into Windows. "
Or do ray-tracing, audio mixing, or C code compiling, or 68k
emulation. (Or anything else that benefits from a faster
CPU).
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 93 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by David Shipman on 21-May-2002 07:27 GMT
heh, wow.
I just skipped to the end of the comments section - the fact that its driving some of you nuts to constantly read the rehashing of this ludicrous kindergarten thread reassures me that there is some intelligent life left in this community.
honestly - superman is better than batman... no, my dad is the best! james brown is the only true funk musician, all others are evil! this is insane
of course, I don't really want to feed the trolls... but this is getting almost laughable.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 94 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 21-May-2002 07:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (cOrpse):
> 3 . Pc using , amiga never using mos fans
I only know about Kronos in tha category.
And something else... YOU talk about open mindness???????
ROTFLOL!!!!
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 95 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 21-May-2002 07:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 79 (DaveW):
I wonder... Why don't you mention that this is two way?
The MOS base has some flamers and the AOS base has other
flamers. You seem to only see the anti-AOS comments (yes,
I disagree with em).
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 96 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-May-2002 07:46 GMT
ALL: STOP WITH THESE STUPID THREADS ! YOUR ARE KILLING THE AMIGA ! AND YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THAT WILL HAVE * NO WINNER * WITH THESE WAR !!
Signed: an Anonymous who use an Amiga, and only an Amiga, everyday since 1988.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 97 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by Jan-Erik Karlsson on 21-May-2002 07:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 96 (Anonymous):
I agree to a point
(I don't think these kind of posts/forum's etc will kill the amiga)
but they are pointless and futile.
what will happen will happen.
neither the morphos team nor amiga inc. (or hyperion) will actually care about
anything said in a forum like this.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 98 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-May-2002 08:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 97 (Jan-Erik Karlsson):
Yes, but all these threads kill any motivation for the future, and to work seriously for the Amiga...
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 99 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 21-May-2002 08:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 95 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Sorry Alkis. You are right.
Fleecy Moss clarifies on ANN : Comment 100 of 186ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 21-May-2002 08:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 98 (Anonymous):
I agree to a point but its never going to change based of a post like yours or any of mine.
If you want to see flame wars see the massive threads that get generated on a regular basis on csam.
If/When new hardware becomes available the debate will move on.
Anonymous, there are 186 items in your selection (but only 136 shown due to limitation) [1 - 50] [51 - 100] [101 - 150] [151 - 186]
Back to Top