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[Rant] Microsoft to Exit Mac Market If Sales Continue to LagANN.lu
Posted on 16-Jul-2002 23:29 GMT by Paul Smith71 comments
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If a serious software publisher plans to leave a platform with a huge userbase (surely we're talking in the hundreds of thousands for MacOSX?), then what chance does OS4 have of making it with promotion figures of about 600? (for forum)

Link to OSNews.com article If nothing else, this proves what what many have been saying for the past 12 months (and openly ridiculed for). The days of binding your software to custom hardware are over.

Surely it is time that the people in charge of AmigaOS acknowledged that the non-mainsteam hardware route was a mistake. I'd bet that a similar promotion scheme for a version of AmigaOS that ran on the majority of the world's computers would have brought a much larger, and possibly commercially viable userbase. I'd also wager that the numbers sold would have been so, that it would have brought more revenue than the current scheme of selling hardware with it.

This is not intended as flamebait. I hope to provoke a discussion on the future of AmigaOS, rather than a flame-fest.

Microsoft to Exit Mac Market If Sales Continue to Lag : Comment 51 of 71ANN.lu
Posted by Hammer (same person as in Amiga.org) on 17-Jul-2002 23:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Lee O'Malley):
@Lee O'Malley,
I wouldn’t equate AmigaOS as BeOS since "Amiga" has a recognizable brand name, existing followers, plenty of legacy application software and the knowledge based to program AmigaOS is relatively plentiful (since it was once the top personal computer platform in the late 80s).
BeOS never had been the world’s top personal computer platform.
Secondly,
Large selling(back in it's peak) Amiga British Mag’s Cover CD has some the best cover CDs available, which may in turn distributed plenty of legacy application software in people’s hands.
BeOS never has this attribute i.e. relatively large proportion of people which has a large collection of legacy applications and knowledge base.
On a personal note;
I have never been excited with BeOS(still sitting in my spare RAID HD gathering dust), unlike soon to be release Amithlon 2.x or AmigaOS4/A1 for that matter.
Microsoft to Exit Mac Market If Sales Continue to Lag : Comment 52 of 71ANN.lu
Posted by Hammer on 18-Jul-2002 00:04 GMT
About http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1026197588&category=unmoderated&number=30
>The things I know about that Amiga, Inc. is working on, in-house, are far
> more compelling for the future of the company than AmigaOS 4.0 or anything
> of that ilk. And I don't begin to claim to know everything they're doing.
I wonder if AmigaOS 4.x/A1, Amithlon 2.x is just a smoke screen...
Microsoft to Exit Mac Market If Sales Continue to Lag : Comment 53 of 71ANN.lu
Posted by Lee O'Malley on 18-Jul-2002 00:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (smithy):
Well, you are partially correct at least. BeOS was gaining ground everyday with their PPC hardware and OS, but because of the Apple clones at the time coming onto the scene, decided their monies and efforts might also be better spent continuing development of the OS and dropping hardware. They didn't anticipate Apple killing off the clones for one thing and the big number of x86 users overwhelmed them to the point they thought they could take on M$ on x86. Wrong/bad decision as they now know. At the point Be went into direct competition with M$, not a good thing, they were destined to fade away. So would you consider that a good move or bad now?
Growing numbers, their own hardware, different from M$ and a good chance they would be still be around makes for a better decision than liquidation and sell out. Maybe 600 coupon orders will not say to the world Amiga is back, but there is a good chance with their own hardware & OS of them at least coming back for a while.
Microsoft to Exit Mac Market If Sales Continue to Lag : Comment 54 of 71ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Jul-2002 09:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Coolio):
"XWindows"
Oh, what's that? Windows for X?
And this 141 days uptime is on a laptop I use daily
(kernel 2.4.17, XFree4, Opera/Galeon, various apps).
Microsoft to Exit Mac Market If Sales Continue to Lag : Comment 55 of 71ANN.lu
Posted by acg on 18-Jul-2002 13:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (Ruben Monteiro):
I agree with your outlook. I think MS is trying to make Windows
Everywhere, but I think the non-connection to specific hardware may
give AmigaDE an edge. For now, it seems economically feasible to
code for Windows, but if you can code for windows machines, and
Linux, and Amiga, and whatever else can come along that is more
attractive in the long run (assuming that there are other options,and
Windows hasn't destroyed everyone elses products economic viability).
What I don't understand is why there are no "killer" apps for
AmigaDE yet....is it because know one can write one, or because
they don't want to do it yet for the yet immature OS, or because
they simply aren't interested?
Microsoft to Exit Mac Market If Sales Continue to Lag : Comment 56 of 71ANN.lu
Posted by Coolio on 18-Jul-2002 13:32 GMT
No sooner had I mentioned that linux (and indeed, most *nix distros) are vastly less stable when X is loaded up, I should have been prepared for the screaming hoards trotting out with "Oh, mine doesn't crash!" "Mine has been running for YEARS without crashing!" I'm just waiting for the usual refrain, "If your uptime isn't at least equal to my uptime, then it means YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING WRONG! IT'S NOT MY BELOVED LINUX!" Well hey, sh*t heads, I haven't rebooted Windows 98 in 9 months, and I do casual web browsing and stare at pr0n on it as well! OH MY GOD, THAT THEREFORE PROVES THAT WINDOWS 98 IS STABLE! TROT TROT TROT! TROT TROT TROT! My friend has a Quad XEON PC running WINDOWS 2000 and it hasn't needed a reboot in YEARS! TROT TROT TROT!
Xwindows is vastly unstable, it has slow refreshes, and there STILL isn't a dominant window manager for it. Every hangup I've seen on a linux box is in X. So, now that you people have trotted out your personal jesus testimonials about the VAST STABILITY Of *nix boxes running X is, I hate to say it, but just because YOU haven't had it crash doesn't invalidate MY, or anyone else's experience! Go do a search for xwindows unstable in google. Now try a search for xwindows crash. TROT TROT TROT!
My point in all this? Well, besides that people who use *nix have inflated senses of self worth, is that it DOESN'T MATTER. Until MorphOS gets a proper toehold in the Amiga market, NOTHING MATTERS. It's like buzzards fighting over rotting meat! IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER! SING IT WITH ME!
Microsoft to Exit Mac Market If Sales Continue to Lag : Comment 57 of 71ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Jul-2002 14:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (Coolio):
"Xwindows is vastly unstable"
XWindows doesn't exist.
I assume you are referring to the XWindow system (NOT "XWindows" which does not exist)?
For something which you describe as "vastly unstable", it's bloody stable here on hundreds of workstations in daily use.
Just because you have screwed up YOUR installation, don't tar all others with the same brush.
Microsoft to Exit Mac Market If Sales Continue to Lag : Comment 58 of 71ANN.lu
Posted by Coolio on 18-Jul-2002 15:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (Anonymous):
"Xwindows is vastly unstable"
>XWindows doesn't exist.
Look, if you want to get hung up over semantics, then I suggest you go to http://www.redhat.com and do a search for Xwindows. Now while you're at it, please go to www.freshmeat.net and search for xwindows. Oh, you're still here? Why not search google for xwindows? Does it exist in your puny reality now?
Yes, I know XWindows is not an "official" term, but it's recognized world wide. Your point has about as much merit to my argument as someone interrupting a university professor's lecture to blurt out, "You used a split infinitive! Stop everything, he used a split infinitive!" Why don't you download a life, or a clue.
>For something which you describe as "vastly unstable", it's bloody stable
>here on hundreds of workstations in daily use.
PREACH IT FROM THE MOUNTAINS, BROTHER! Let's here some more testimonials about the stability of the almighty *nix. That sure invalidates my argument, yessir!
>Just because you have screwed up YOUR installation, don't tar all others
>with the same brush.
AHHH, here it is. I'm never disappointed waiting for linux weenies ready and willing to blame everything but linux when linux doesn't work right. It's akin to an automobile manufacturer blaming the driver if the airbags happen to go off without warning while driving. "Oh, just because you screwed up your car..." Seriously, download a life or a clue. Or better yet, download a beta of MorphOS. It kicks ass!
Microsoft to Exit Mac Market If Sales Continue to Lag : Comment 59 of 71ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 18-Jul-2002 15:06 GMT
Seems just like another typical M$ maneuver to drive other developers away from the Mac. I don't think it can be connected in any way with AmigaOS. If it was Adobe to make such a statement, yes, I would be more worried, but it's Microsoft, c'mon, that moves is not unexpected at all, they look at the long term strategy and in this view it doesn't matter if this market is profitable to them now, they know they can get more by scaring others away from the Mac and have them develop exclusively on Windows.
Microsoft to Exit Mac Market If Sales Continue to Lag : Comment 60 of 71ANN.lu
Posted by mike huel on 18-Jul-2002 19:02 GMT
first of you guys are missing the point. the figures of 600 arent how many will buy an a1
in fact much less will. The supporting figures of Amiga are much more ,around 50k.
The rest of this crap just doesnt deserve repeating.
Microsoft to Exit Mac Market If Sales Continue to Lag : Comment 61 of 71ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 18-Jul-2002 19:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (mike huel):
Something tells me you are the one missing the point.
The promotion is for early adopters. Most of us are waiting for something tangible. Realistic sales projections will only be available once the product hits the market.
Microsoft to Exit Mac Market If Sales Continue to Lag : Comment 62 of 71ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 19-Jul-2002 00:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (Hammer):
>I wonder if AmigaOS 4.x/A1, Amithlon 2.x is just a smoke screen...
No, Amiga is very serious about OS4 and a new breed of desktops starting with the AmigaOne. And those who can spend their time in a more useful way than complaining about every time someone at Amiga sneezes can see that.
Microsoft to Exit Mac Market If Sales Continue to Lag : Comment 63 of 71ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 19-Jul-2002 00:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (mike huel):
Awesome! Another one with a crystal ball. And exactly how many people will buy an A1 since you've clearly travelled into the future? (BTW, did you meet Tasslehoff Burrfoot there?)
Microsoft to Exit Mac Market If Sales Continue to Lag : Comment 64 of 71ANN.lu
Posted by NeRP on 19-Jul-2002 01:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 63 (amigammc):
"Besides, that was Flint's dagger!"
Microsoft to Exit Mac Market If Sales Continue to Lag : Comment 65 of 71ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 19-Jul-2002 06:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (Coolio):
>> "Xwindows is vastly unstable"
>XWindows doesn't exist.
Look, if you want to get hung up over semantics, then I suggest you go to http://www.redhat.com and do a search for Xwindows. Now
while you're at it, please go to www.freshmeat.net and search for xwindows. Oh, you're still here? Why not search google for xwindows?
Does it exist in your puny reality now? <<
My dear chap, just because some 2-bit company (RedHat) has a website run by people unable to spell does not make XWindows exist. You may, once you've chilled out a little, pop along to www.x.org and see for yourself - it is the X Window System. It is not XWindows.
Hey, you know what? I spotted websites whch state that Al Gore invented the Internet. I've seen websites claim that Windows is the best OS in teh world. Following your logic they MUST be true, right?
>> >For something which you describe as "vastly unstable", it's bloody stable
>here on hundreds of workstations in daily use.
PREACH IT FROM THE MOUNTAINS, BROTHER! Let's here some more testimonials about the stability of the almighty *nix. That
sure invalidates my argument, yessir! <<
Sorry if you dislike the facts, old chap, but that's your problem not mine.
X is pretty damned stable. Period. Deal with it.
>> >Just because you have screwed up YOUR installation, don't tar all others
>with the same brush.
AHHH, here it is. I'm never disappointed waiting for linux weenies ready and willing to blame everything but linux when linux doesn't
work right. <<
ROTFLMAO!!!
And which Linux weenie would that be, oh clueless troll? Here's a wee hint for you - I loathe and detest Linux. I prefer real Unices to that overhyped pile of droppings.
However, the FACT still remains that X is bloody stable. That YOU have screwed up your machine's OS is hardly X's fault.
>> It's akin to an automobile manufacturer blaming the driver if the airbags happen to go off without warning while driving. "Oh,
just because you screwed up your car..." <<
No, but it IS akin to a car manufacturer refusing to accept responsibility for your crash when it was YOU trying to drive round a 30mph hairpin bend at 120mph in the wet...
>> Seriously, download a life or a clue. Or better yet, download a beta of MorphOS. It kicks ass! <<
I've been testing out MorphOS right from day 1 of the first available beta. Some of us do actually pay attention to what's going on in teh real world, you know - you ought to try it one of these days... You might start by using the correct terms for things, for example...
Microsoft to Exit Mac Market If Sales Continue to Lag : Comment 66 of 71ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 19-Jul-2002 07:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (Coolio):
> Xwindows is vastly unstable [...]
Wasn't the (off-topic) debate over the stability of GNU/Linux, and Linux 2.4.x in particular?
I'm relatively n00b when it comes to GNU/Linux (only been using it since 2.0), but I've NEVER had it crash on me (knock on wood). Yes, I've had X crashing a couple of times, but then I drop to a shell and restart it, big deal. As far as Linux is concerned it's just another app/process. OTOH X really is a bloated monster, although a very capable monster, but personally I don't need half of those capabilities...
Microsoft to Exit Mac Market If Sales Continue to Lag : Comment 67 of 71ANN.lu
Posted by NoctReX on 19-Jul-2002 10:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Coolio):
QUOTE
Leaving a *nix box running as a server is hardly a good example of stability. I could run an MS-DOS version of BIND in a MS-DOS and it would run forever. Why not put your Linux distro to the test... Fire up XWindows and Konquerer, or Mozilla, or whatever half assed web browser you use, and do some serious browsing on script heavy webpages. Oh, do listen to some streaming media while you're at it. What's this? You had to reboot? Golly gee willickers! But, I thought it was stable!
END QUOTE
Well, i`m using Mandrake Linux 8.2...
have fired up KDE 3.0.2, Konqueror (file browsing), Mozilla 1.1a (surfing and email), Xine (playing a DVD), XMMS (mp3 player WITH OpenGL visualisation running), makeing SQL queries to mySQL, testing my new webpage through mozilla, Apache and PHP, and it ALL works fine....every day...
they not even crash...
oh, forgot, sometimes i play the cute OpenGL Tuxracer game together with the other apps running :)
oh, that`s not all...during this, i compiled and installed successfully OpenOffice Org 1.0, which i just downloaded.
works like a charm!
maybe u have overclocked your machine? then it`ll be unstable if u overdo it...
when i did my FSB at 150 (heheh, too much) it booted, but i couldn`t even open mozilla...
so now it`s back to the good old 143 OC standard ;o)
there`s maybe some types or configurations of pc`s which just are not stable with an OS. have encountered a lot of em :)
greetz!
Microsoft to Exit Mac Market If Sales Continue to Lag : Comment 68 of 71ANN.lu
Posted by NoctReX on 19-Jul-2002 10:37 GMT
anyway, let`s leave the *nix shit :)
amiga amiga amigaaaa!
unfortunatly, there will no AmigaOS as revolutunary as the classic one...
I still remeber the astonishment i had when i dragged my 640*256 Workbench 1.3 screen to reveal behind the 320*256 Dpaint II screen, on my Amiga 500 with 512kb fast RAM :)
i was like: wowww!! different resolutions, 2 screens! on my 1084!
...that feeling will never happen again with todays products:(
the magic that created that, was BOTH the hardware and the software combined.
pc created standards, amiga was flying high above`em, and in my heart, it still is, and in reallity, on some areas it still does!
never ever seen that smooth 2D scrolling Scala produces, on any other hardware..
ok, enough dreaming... i hope that AOS4 will be a part of that feeling...
Microsoft to Exit Mac Market If Sales Continue to Lag : Comment 69 of 71ANN.lu
Posted by Jim Forbes-Ritte (AGAfaster) on 19-Jul-2002 11:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (smithy):
'Unless you think there a userbase of 600 can decrease by very much.'
Its NOT a user base of 600. I for one havent bought a Coupon, but I bloody well WILL by A1/OS4. see, its not an easy thing to buy, that coupon, if you dont trust using ones credit card over the 'net. SnailMail is out of the question, as it will not get there soon enough - besides I doubt they accept cheques for £32.50 !
I will buy my AmigaOne G3SE mobo and OS4 from Eyetech directly. I might even wander up the 150 miles or so and pick it up in person !
Microsoft to Exit Mac Market If Sales Continue to Lag : Comment 70 of 71ANN.lu
Posted by Coolio on 19-Jul-2002 15:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 65 (Anonymous):
>My dear chap, just because some 2-bit company (RedHat) has a
>website run by people unable to spell does not make XWindows exist.
Did you miss the part where I said I recognized it's not an official term, but it's used world wide? There are plenty of words circulated which are not officially recognized, yet are used in day to day life. I know you're one of those anal fixated *nix losers who view themselves as someone so high and mighty that if anyone dares to stray from terms prescribed specifically from the *nix demigods, you must immediately rush to the defence of your deity, because it really matters you see. Why don't you get some lense cleaner for your coke bottle thick glasses, shovel the mountain of garbage off your computer desk, and delete some of your vast pr0n and anime collection so you'll have somewhere to download a life or a clue.
>You may, once you've chilled out a little, pop along to www.x.org and see
>for yourself - it is the X Window System. It is not XWindows.
You should search google.com and freshmeat.net for xwindows as well. Maybe you should start a crusade, there are a lot of other people who aren't performing the proper heave offerings and sacrifices to your *nix gods. Even sun.com has search results for the demonic "xwindows," and as you've made clear, it's very important to not use terms which are not officially prescribed by the *nix gods.
>Hey, you know what? I spotted websites whch state that Al Gore invented
>the Internet. I've seen websites claim that Windows is the best OS in teh
>world. Following your logic they MUST be true, right?
No, that's following your own faulty logic. A jargon name for a commonly used piece of software is much different than Al Gore claiming he invented the internet, and people claiming Windows is the best OS in the world.
>Sorry if you dislike the facts, old chap, but that's your problem not mine.
Your testimonial hardly counts as fact, old boy.
>X is pretty damned stable. Period. Deal with it.
Just keep on telling yourself that, and it's bound to come true. While you're at it, tell yourself that you are handsome and women like you.
>And which Linux weenie would that be, oh clueless troll? Here's a wee
>hint for you - I loathe and detest Linux. I prefer real Unices to that
>overhyped pile of droppings.
Oh boy! When Linux and Unix weenies pit themselves against each other, it's like watching stamp collectors fight over who has the superior stamp collection. GO BOY, GO!
>However, the FACT still remains that X is bloody stable. That YOU have
>screwed up your machine's OS is hardly X's fault.
See? Here you are blaming the end user again. This is the typical refrain of the linux (and in your case, *nix) fanatic. "If it doesn't work, it's your fault!!!"
>No, but it IS akin to a car manufacturer refusing to accept responsibility
>for your crash when it was YOU trying to drive round a 30mph hairpin
>bend at 120mph in the wet...
My analogy was about airbags, yours is about speeding. When you talk about XWindows (hehe, hehehehe, ehheheheheh!), speed never comes into the equation. It's like worrying about keeping the speed limit on a tricycle.
>I've been testing out MorphOS right from day 1 of the first available beta.
GOOD! THERE IS HOPE FOR YOU YET!!! MORPHOS FOR ME, MORPHOS FOR YOU, I'LL HAVE A MORPHOS, YOU HAVE ONE TOO!
Microsoft to Exit Mac Market If Sales Continue to Lag : Comment 71 of 71ANN.lu
Posted by Brad Ray on 20-Jul-2002 16:13 GMT
It really doesnt matter at this point and time.
No one is gonna take Amiga serious at first anyhow.
Amiga is gonna have to prove itself in a flooded software, and hardware market.
and the only way to do this, is to have something different (in a good way) and something solid.
And besides, you can ask the same question about Microsoft.
What are they gonna do about all the different countries who are not gonna support windows anymore? (and there are quite a few now)
Amiga is not gonna make their money in the states, anyhow.
Most of it will be made across seas.
Amiga inc. has a very nice chance of bringing Amiga back to the world, if they take their time and do it right. (that includes good advertisement)
The only thing that is holding Amiga back, is the shape of the world wide economy.
The future of the economy is not looking very good at all.
And one other plus for the Amiga is linux users worldwide...
I believe that they will be very interested in the new Amiga One motherboard.
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