26-Apr-2024 16:38 GMT.		 UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Anonymous, there are 313 items in your selection (but only 63 shown due to limitation) [1 - 50] [51 - 100] [101 - 150] [151 - 200] [201 - 250] [251 - 300] [301 - 313]
[Web] Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans!ANN.lu
Posted on 07-Nov-2002 05:12 GMT by Scott Pistorino313 comments
View flat
View list
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans only at AmigaSource! AmigaSource! is pround to anounce what hopes to be the first of many interviews with the big names in the Amiga Community. Drop on in and read the exclusive interview with Ben Hermans of Hyperion Entertainment!!!
Thanks
Scott Pistorino
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 251 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Nicholai Benalal on 08-Nov-2002 13:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 250 (Amon_Re):
certainly not
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 252 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Andy on 08-Nov-2002 13:32 GMT
In this whole controversy about MorphOS vs OS4, I think we've somewhat lost sight of the forest for the trees. First and foremost,the original [Commodore] Amiga series machines shipped exclusively with AmigaOS (except of course for my beloved A3000UX box with both AMIX and OS2.1) -- there was no other way you could run AmigaOS at that time without the hardware.
Naturally, that didn't stop users from porting Minix, NetBSD, OpenBSD, Linux, LinuxPPC, etc., to the platform, those users just ignored the ROM and pounded the hardware directly. How is what Commodore did any different than what Amiga, Inc., is doing now? They ship a box, guaranteeing that the software they ship will run on the hardware. There's a ROM/BIOS/SWISS CHEESE on the board which permits and supports the use of OS4, but doesn't lock users to OS4 -- you can still run Linux, BSD, HURD or whatever else is available if you want to. Until very recently, Apple did the same thing -- only with the advent of OSX (maybe OS9.XX?) did they do away with a motherboard mounted ROM (Old World architecture machines I think were the last boxes). They did it for speed reasons and because there was less worry that piracy would be a problem -- what are people going to do, run pirated versions of OSX on their RS/6000's? This line of thinking lasted until Mac-On-Linux came out...
But I digress. In the end, if you want to run MorphOS, run MorphOS. The same goes for Amiga -- I never understood one would be 100% compatable with the other. The bottom line is that most of the Amiga community, for better or worse, is probably going to buy an "Amiga" based solution, if only because of availability and the trademark. That doesn't mean there can't be other solutions like Pegasos(in the M68k world, look at the Draco for example) -- in fact, if the market's any good, there will be other solutions.
I personally believe that multiple vendors shipping multiple PPC based motherboards is good for the PPC community as a bigger group -- I'm sure there will be plenty of Linux users who will buy the AmigaOne or Thendic solution (or the upcoming Terrasoft PPC motherboard) just to run Linux, if only not to buy Intel based hardware. That's what I'm hoping to do. And to those who believe that PPC motherboards cost too much, you're right. They do cost too much. Until there are 15 or 20 clone motherboard vendors cranking out 50 million boards apiece, they will always cost more than the $79 Shuttle special at Computers-R-Us. So encourage your neighbor to buy a board of some kind, buy one yourself, support the community, hopefully that will drive the price down. Heck, even the Atari users may get in on things!
Later,
-Andy
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 253 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Raquel and Bill on 08-Nov-2002 13:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 252 (Andy):
Hi Andy, thanks for the post.
Yikes! Tell us about the TerraSoftPPC motherboard...! That is a new one!
Thanks for the heads-up.
Sincerely,
Raquel and Bill
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 254 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by MIB on 08-Nov-2002 13:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 253 (Raquel and Bill):
#253
http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/briQ/
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 255 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Raquel and Bill on 08-Nov-2002 14:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 254 (MIB):
Ahhh ok, that is just the Total Impact briQ. See http://www.totalimpact.com/ and that is definately not the same thing as what we are talking about here, but we still like your main point.
Whew!
:-)
R&B
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 256 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 08-Nov-2002 14:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 254 (MIB):
I thought the BriQ to be quite old now?
http://www.totalimpact.com/briQ.html
Is the RioRed guy still doing anything PPC?
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 257 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 08-Nov-2002 14:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 254 (MIB):
No AGP, max 1xPCI (with extra adapter) 100mhz FSB.
Looks nice, but completly different target-market than those by bPlan
MAI or Apple.
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 258 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 08-Nov-2002 14:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 257 (Anonymous):
AmigaOne-XE or TeronPX might be good for 1U servers, though.
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 259 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by André Siegel on 08-Nov-2002 14:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 252 (Andy):
"How is what Commodore did any different than what Amiga, Inc., is doing now?"
That's simple. Commodore sold AmigaOS (also) via retail channels, Amiga Inc. won't (except for versions running on BlizzardPPC/CyberstormPPC cards). If some Linux geek buys an AmigaOne without AmigaOS4.0 (=LinuxOne?), he will be unable to buy AmigaOS4.0 later on.
There are people who don't know anything about Amiga, but are willing to set up their own PPC machine to run Linux and MacOS(X). If they find out about AmigaOS *after* they bought their brand new PPC hardware, they will have no chance to try out AmigaOS4.0. Instead, they would have to buy the "full" AmigaOne hardware (after buying a "LinuxOne" from Eyetech) in order to be able to do so.
But, oh well, I am sure Mr. McEwen and Mr. Hermans will know perfectly well what they are doing. I mean they are managers, right? They *ought* to know how to attract _new_ users from other markets (like the LinuxPPC/Mac-On-Linux crowd).
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 260 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Andy on 08-Nov-2002 15:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 259 (André Siegel):
Not to put too fine a point on things, but Commodore never sold "AmigaOS" through retail channels, they sold "AmigaOS Upgrades" through retail channels. You still had to have the original machines, with their firmware (Kickstart), in order to run the AmigaOS. Commodore made the upgrade based upon upgrade of Kickstart in each major release -- you as an end user were simply buying a new license with a new Kickstart to support each major new release. If you built an Amiga clone that would support Commodore's Kickstart ROM (ala Draco), you were still licensed. Of course, they still sold minor releases as disk-only upgrades (SetPatch anyone?), but the essential basis is that you still had to have either the ROM or the machine with the ROM.
Andre' does have a point however, users who purchase motherboards of other types won't be able to stop by their nearest Amiga dealer and purchase AmigaOS and throw it on their boxes. Technically, you're not supposed to do this with MacOS either; OSX is only licensed and supported by Apple on Apple hardware (or Apple licensed hardware like a UMAX). Running it on other hardware or on Mac-on-Linux violates Apple's EULA. It doesn't make it impossible, it just violates the software agreement. Chances are, most Linux users are not going to become Amiga converts unless they specifically go out and buy the solution. It's essentially the same thing that BeOS ran into -- lots of PC users wanted BeOS but wouldn't pay for it, even though it was cheap and they gave personal versions away at the end.
Finally, I wasn't referring to the Yellow Dog BriQ in my earlier comments about Terrasoft producing a PowerPC motherboard. Take this for what it's worth, but a Terrasoft engineer commented on Slashdot during the Eyetech/AmigaOne availability announcement that they were going to also announce in about 3 weeks the supposed availability of a ATX style motherboard for running Linux. Price? As yet to be determined, but again, supposedly "competative with other solutions". Who knows what that means, but looking at the AOne, PegasOS and other solutions, most likely around US$600-800. Again, it's targeted specificly at running Linux, so there must be some market there.
-Andy
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 261 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Linus G on 08-Nov-2002 15:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 259 (André Siegel):
I believe that Eyetech will do it´s best to promote the AmigaOne instead of the Linux version. That way the people who buy a motherboard from Eyetech will know exactly what they are doing.
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 262 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Scott Pistorino on 08-Nov-2002 15:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 248 (DaveW):
> "It would be fun to do an irreverant website in the vein of Punch but aimed >at the Amiga market called "www.amigasauce.com". In fact every time I hear of >amigasource
>I think amigasauce.
Hmm the website best served with pork chops
>You saucy chap!
>Besides I dont read Ben as *angry* in the interview. Ill read it again.
He's not!!
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 263 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Scott Pistorino on 08-Nov-2002 15:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 248 (DaveW):
> "It would be fun to do an irreverant website in the vein of Punch but aimed >at the Amiga market called "www.amigasauce.com". In fact every time I hear of >amigasource
>I think amigasauce.
Hmm the website best served with pork chops
>You saucy chap!
>Besides I dont read Ben as *angry* in the interview. Ill read it again.
He's not!!
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 264 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 08-Nov-2002 15:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 259 (André Siegel):
Not to mention the machines that are already out there. I think I heard of something called "Macintosh"... That's a f-ing MONSTROUSLY HUGE already existing hardware base in comparison to a possible hardware base consisting of people who are prepared to buy a new, dongled, bundled and renamed Teron board (and I guess I'd better say Pegasos boards too, just for those who invent factions and camps and stare themselves blind on only two nearly identical computer components).
If someone licensed (yeah, pure fantasy, but for argument's sake - it's what AmigaOS is made dependent upon for survival after all) say a batch of PowerMac G4's, what's the best way to get AmigaOS customers among those who own that hardware? Tell them that they'll have to buy a new identical machine, only dongled/bundled/licensed this time? Or is it to actually try to sell them AmigaOS? Same thing with any other hardware. Sell your product, what a novel concept!
I see that Dave Haynie recently spoke of "lowering the barrier to entry" to gain customers/users of an OS. While he said that in a "PPC vs x86" context, it naturally applies to ANY aspect regarding the sales of an OS. This barrier to entry must be removed. The "PPC-only" barrier is a technologically relevant barrier. The compulsory hardware licensing barrier is not, it's an easily revokable business decision.
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 265 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 08-Nov-2002 15:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 251 (Nicholai Benalal):
Oh ok, sorry about it, but your name sounds familiar
Amon_Re
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 266 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 08-Nov-2002 15:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 264 (Seehund):
Seehund, this is going to run ... and run ... and run :)
Only one thing I think you need to cover in your arguments up front ( to save people like me picking holes in it unnecessarily ) is that those that buy Apple Macs, in general, are not going to consider AmigaOS4.0 ... period. Im sure if you told them what an OS was they would be surprised ;-)
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 267 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 08-Nov-2002 15:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 207 (JoannaK):
"Come on.. give Mr Fleecy a break.. It's not every week that he hears his favorite project to be shut down. I bet this Sendo mobile thing was important..."
WOMEN, get back to tha kitchen!!
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 268 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 08-Nov-2002 16:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 266 (DaveW):
:)
Yeah, I think that's a pretty accurate generalisation of the typical Megahertz-Myth-myth believing MacOS user, those who use the stock one-button mouse et c., but there's a shitload of hardware out there ripe for the picking by us with a clue, and lots of people went directly to Mac from Amiga (remember the innate anti-x86/"peecee" fanaticism), and I also think a load of YDL, Debian, SuSE and-whatnot-users would beg to disagree with you. Mac users come in all flavours, the "AOL" flavour wouldn't be the main target of AmigaOS.
$50-100 for a CD with an OS that might be interesting to try out is a lot less of a deterrent than having to buy new hardware that has been made "special" by waving the magic trademark wand over it.
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 269 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 08-Nov-2002 16:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 268 (Seehund):
"$50-100 for a CD with an OS that might be interesting to try out is a lot less of a deterrent than having to buy new hardware that has been made "special" by waving the magic trademark wand over it."
Amiga is a platform, not just an OS. It never was and never will be anything else. You have a dream of how things could be done differently and it's good that you voice your ideas but, when are you going to realize that your dreams will never won't come true and get over it already? I mean, you're talking about saving the Amiga and all but, have the thought that this is actually causing more damage than helping ever crossed your mind, Seehund?
You've promoted you're petition enough now, the community has spoken. In the end, Amiga Inc. is the ones making the decissions and beyond this you can do more than vote with your wallet. In other words, if you don't like their products then don't buy it. That's the way this capitalistic world works unless you think you can manage to pull off a communistic revolution in the U.S.
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 270 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 08-Nov-2002 17:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 269 (samface):
BTW, I've also replied to one of your posts on slashdot.
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 271 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 08-Nov-2002 17:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 237 (Just Bill):
@Just Bill
"Hi Ben, we thought we were on to something good here? Can't we do without all this petty posturing? Raquel wants to know when you are coming to Paris to pick up your Pegasos?"
I'm sure Paris is lovely in Novemeber but I'd suggest sending it by courier. Unfortunately Hyperion doesn't list a mailing address on their web site.
"...and Dave will you send me an email too?!
Man, these guys are giving the boards away. Who else wants one?! :)
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 272 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Sjoerd on 08-Nov-2002 17:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 265 (Amon_Re):
look at http://compcity.nl/pegasosdemo/Images/img_CLTF000080.JPG for the one you mean they are Sharwin and Rakesh Raghoebardayal They are dutch but are working for more than a 2 years no for Tendic France.
I hope they don´t mind that I tell you this but is well know.
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 273 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 08-Nov-2002 17:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 264 (Seehund):
@Seehund
"I see that Dave Haynie recently spoke of "lowering the barrier to entry" to gain customers/users of an OS. While he said that in a "PPC vs x86" context, it naturally applies to ANY aspect regarding the sales of an OS. This barrier to entry must be removed..."
I think we could use an online survey here to gauge interest in x86 versions of both MorphOS and OS4.
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 274 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 08-Nov-2002 17:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 269 (samface):
Wake up my dear samface, the Amiga is not hardware+software anymore...
The only ALIVE Amiga thing is AmigaOS.
The Amiga as we knew it is DEAD. They have to free the OS from the hardware
barrier and this means:
1) Stop this stupid OEM licences and let any user buy any board supported
by the OS, with a dongle if required
2) Release the HAL specs in order to let anyone support their hardware freely.
This is the ONLY way to make the AmigaOS get a step further.
With the current policies, they continue the old era... AmigaOS will die...
It is how I and *MANY* other people see it... As the Barbie PC developer said,
he won't go after software companies to make them support his board, it's
up to them and/or the users.
And for once, stop repeating what Amiga Inc. says blindly and think for
yourself. That's why there's that tissue in your head called Celebrial Cortex
or brain... That's why you have a brain, to think. Do not be a sheep.
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 275 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 08-Nov-2002 17:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 269 (samface):
@samface
"You've promoted you're petition enough now, the community has spoken. In the end, Amiga Inc. is the ones making the decissions and beyond this you can do more than vote with your wallet."
The "community" didn't appear to have much say in the matter. There is obviously considerable consumer interest in x86 platform support of some kind. No one has made a definitive stand that OS4 (or MorphOS) is restricted to the PPC.
Obviously Eyetech, Thendic and Hyperion have a vested interest in the current technology. However, I'm sure each of these companies is wise enough to consider other potential markets. If the PPC chip was shelved tomorrow they better have a contigency plan.
Bottom line: create an x86-based solution (name the board, gfx card and chip) and many of us will buy it.
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 276 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 08-Nov-2002 18:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 269 (samface):
> Amiga is a platform, not just an OS.
Amiga is a company and a trademark. Amiga used to be a platform, now only AmigaOS is left, thankfully.
Surely you can't have missed that AInc has nothing to do with hardware, that AmigaOS is supposed to run on whatever feasible third party hardware (that someone decides to get a license for...), and that nobody designs any hardware especially for AInc or for AmigaOS?
> when are you going to realize that your dreams will never won't come true and
> get over it already?
What an awfully ignorant thing to say. You're free to give up your own dreams about "Amigas", however more unrealistical than wanting to see an OS sold separately from the hardware of others, but I don't care about whether you "get over them" or not, and I won't urge you to stop talking about it.
> have the thought that this is actually causing more damage than helping ever
> crossed your mind, Seehund?
Damage to whom or what, and how? What is it you think could cause damage to something? Actually selling the software, or just people saying that the software should be available for sale?
> You've promoted you're petition enough now, the community has spoken.
Thank You, Samface... sorry... The Community, for volunteering to make those difficult decisions so easy for us.
Hell, some of the things one can read here... Wow.
No reply from the company we're addressing has been made to the signatories, even though more than 4 months have passed since they received the first batch of signatures.
We're not promoting any petition, we're arguing for the ideas expressed in the petition, duh.
> In other words, if you don't like their products then don't buy it. That's the
> way this capitalistic world works
WTF? I like "their" product, that is why I want to buy it. I don't like the way the product is being restricted and made unavailable for sale, and I sure as f-ck hope that AInc don't share your view on trying to sell a product: "if you don't like it, you're free to not buy it". In the capitalistic world (which I understand *you* are the one who dislikes, judging from your contributions to political threads on amiga.org), things like that don't fly. A product needs to be sold, or it dies. As you correctly say, people vote with their wallets. I want as few people as possible to have a reason to "not like it and not buy it", and that should naturally be in the vendor's interest too. Remove the biggest reason/deterrent. Make people want to "vote" for your stuff.
> unless you think you can manage to pull off a communistic revolution in the
> U.S.
LOL! That's rich! You're the "leftie" here, remember?
If I were a communist dictator, then maybe I'd invent a Volks-computer, yeah, One Piece Of Hardware Is Good Enough For Anyone, it's the hammer-and-sickle label on it that matters, a label rewarded to submissive hardware vendors by the thorough "Quality Control" of the Central Committee (which can do no wrong, praised be them). Oh yeah that's the ticket! I'm sure those capitalistic pig-dog OS vendors will tremble in their shoes and give up voluntarily at the sight of such a mighty Product of The People, it's got the hammer-and-sickle after all, so everyone will want to have it!
;)
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 277 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 08-Nov-2002 18:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 272 (Sjoerd):
Yea, those are the guys i meant, and yes, i know they work for thendic.
Haven't seen them lately tho
Amon_Re
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 278 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 08-Nov-2002 18:52 GMT
@Seehund
I understand your point with your petition, and yes, the current licence scheme is rather arkward, but on the other hand it does mean that the first platforms AOS4 will run on get decent support.
Just take a look on Amithlon, it runs on PC's, but it too doesn't support all types of cards, that's why Bernie said it was best to buy this & that piece of hardware.
If Hyperion were to develop AOS4 for Pegasos without thendic licencing it, who do you think will get the complaints? Not thendic, but Hyperion.
As for Thendic refusing to acquire a licence, i can only say that i find that most regretfull, as the licence itself is costless, and the dongle could be inserted in their OF firmware too (unless they filled every single byte of their chip with it ^_^).
The reason why they did this scheme is a bussiness decision, and i can understand it perfectly, it's a means to ensure both Eyetech & Hyperion get their money, in a way you can argue that this is counter productive, and hinders competition, but in fact, it doesn't, Thendic can get the licence & in that way also secure a share of the market.
Why can't you see the need for this scheme in such a microscopic market in the first place? These people invested lots of cash in these projects, it's only logical they'd want to make sure they atleast get a break-even afterwards
Amon_Re
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 279 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 08-Nov-2002 19:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 271 (anonymous):
There's no such thing as a free lunch, well unless you scrape it off the pavement. However if you are suggesting that someone could buy past my principles with a free board you are very much mistaken because I dont have any principles ;-)
Or was that principals?
SlimJim, help!
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 280 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 08-Nov-2002 19:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 229 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
If they want to figure out how to use Apple HW from somebody else's code may I suggest the Darwin kernel xnu and not Linux. Linux/PPC has a reputation for being buggy |-\
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 281 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 08-Nov-2002 19:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 242 (miksuh):
And an internal dongle is reliable?! Pth, give me a break!
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 282 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 08-Nov-2002 19:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 244 (DaveW):
MorphOS ran on the AmigaOne unaltered. The reason is the Pegasos/AmigaOne/Teron use the same MAI chip set.
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 283 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 08-Nov-2002 19:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 252 (Andy):
Regarding Apple they stopped using a physical ROM in System 8.6.
They also introduced a nanokernel in 8.6.
You could port Darwin to the RS/6000 actually. Nobody as yet has however. I do believe some were working to port it to the Apple Network Server which runs AIX.
As for your whole post, it's bunk. Amiga Inc.'s claim that the licensing concerns piracy protection is nonsense.
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 284 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 08-Nov-2002 19:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 282 (strobe):
Well I am aware of the anecdotal evidence of that. However we are talking
about AmigaOS4.
I speculate it might be even simpler than that at face value - you wouldnt need to "crack" anything.
But thats just me, speculating, and Ive got a relaxing evening ahead to go and enjoy.
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 285 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 08-Nov-2002 19:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 266 (DaveW):
Well this Mac user is buying a Titanium Powerbook next month.
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 286 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 08-Nov-2002 19:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 267 (pixie):
>WOMEN, get back to tha kitchen!!
Hahaha
Let me also add "Waa"
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 287 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 08-Nov-2002 19:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 268 (Seehund):
Indeed, I use a four button mouse for example. |-)
(but I also agree with Apple's requirement that software only require one button)
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 288 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 08-Nov-2002 19:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 269 (samface):
>the community has spoken
Heh, I find that amusing to no end.
Let's see, Amiga Inc. and Amiga Inc. apologists...I guess that would be the "community".
Let's see how many people run AOS4 as opposed to how many signed that petition.
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 289 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 08-Nov-2002 19:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 278 (Amon_Re):
>Just take a look on Amithlon, it runs on PC's, but it too doesn't support all types of cards, that's why Bernie said it was best to buy this & that piece of hardware.
And this is different than AmigaOS 4 HOW?!
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 290 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Roj on 08-Nov-2002 20:20 GMT
What happened to the planned roadmap for AmigaOS though? IIRC, AmigaOS4 is a
stepping stone, a work-in-progress to get the source code free from the old
hardware. The idea was to get a foothold on hardware that doesn't, on the
surface, compete with MS and gives them time to develop AmigaOS 5, which, at
the time, was planned for the hardware independence everyone is looking for.
I think everyone wants Hyperion to scrap the work as it stands thus far and
push in a direction they plan to head in, but they just aren't there with it
yet.
Besides, even if OS4 were on the shelves at the computer supermarket
tomorrow, they'd have to make room for all the hot new Amiga titles. I doubt
many stock clerks would work overtime with that task. AmigaOS would be even
more of a laughing stock than it is now. The support needs to be in place
before they try to inch in where MS already has, to say it lightly, a firm
foot planted. A little respect has been gained by moving the OS completely
to PPC. It's too early to risk losing the gains that have been made thus far
by moving too hastily.
--that's my opinion, FWIW.
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 291 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 08-Nov-2002 20:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 289 (strobe):
@Strobe
The full context of that sentence is
"I understand your point with your petition, and yes, the current licence scheme is rather arkward, but on the other hand it does mean that the first platforms AOS4 will run on get decent support.
Just take a look on Amithlon, it runs on PC's, but it too doesn't support all types of cards, that's why Bernie said it was best to buy this & that piece of hardware.
If Hyperion were to develop AOS4 for Pegasos without thendic licencing it, who do you think will get the complaints? Not thendic, but Hyperion. "
And if you read that you'll see i was speaking about support, both of hardware & support of the users.
The basic perpose of that licence is twofold, 1) Make sure the companies involved with the project (eyetech & hyperion) get their money back & 2) to be able to provide support to the user.
If that scheme weren't there, and Hyperion were to just write AOS for pegasos, and no licence cheme would be in place, how long do you think it will take before AOS4 would end up at the amiga.warez newsnet group?
This scheme protects both Hyerion & Eyetech, and any other company that gets a licence (they are guarenteed that they will get atleast a small part of the market) and i have no beef with it at all, if i were to be working on an A1 i'd have grabbed the licence & be done with it, atleast then i'd be sure i'd have a chance of selling my hardware to it's targetted group.
And yes, i know there's LinuxPPC, but i doubt that market is much bigger then the Amiga's anyway)
Amon_Re
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 292 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 08-Nov-2002 20:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 291 (Amon_Re):
Erm, change "If that scheme weren't there, and Hyperion were to just write AOS for pegasos, and no licence cheme would be in place, how long do you think it will take before AOS4 would end up at the amiga.warez newsnet group?"
To:
If that scheme weren't there, and Hyperion were to just write AOS for pegasos, and no dongle mechanism would be in place, how long do you think it will take before AOS4 would end up at the amiga.warez newsnet group?
Amon_Re
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 293 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 08-Nov-2002 20:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 279 (DaveW):
> SlimJim, help!
Hmm... uh? You called? What can I help you with?
.
SlimJim
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 294 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 08-Nov-2002 20:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 291 (Amon_Re):
Sorry but this is ridiculous.
If I were ever to buy a PC from DELL and had Windows problems, I would contact DELL.
But when I build my own PC and install Windows off the shelf I fix it myself. Nobody tries to contact Microsoft for tech support. They make it impossible unless you pay them gobs of money. Why the heck would Hyperion be any different? Who the hell is going to contact them?
C'mon, stop treating the Amiga community like a bunch of dumbasses.
Furthermore the argument Amiga Inc. keeps using is the anti-piracy one. Neither argument makes any sense. The purpose of such licenses is control of the hardware company.
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 295 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 08-Nov-2002 20:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 292 (Amon_Re):
2 days before it would have been otherwise.
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 296 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 08-Nov-2002 20:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 278 (Amon_Re):
@Amon_Re,
> but on the other hand it does mean that the first platforms AOS4 will run on get
> decent support.
I disagree completely. It is not compulsory hardware licensing you've got to thank for that. There is no need to have hardware vendors become licensees in order to say "let's make our OS run on hardware X." If you mean providing support for end-users, then that's up to the software vendor - as long as the user runs the software on a piece of hardware that is listed as officially supported.
Sure, if a hardware vendor voluntarily wishes to provide a bundled computer system including software support á la Eyetech, great. There are probably some customers interested in that kind of stuff too among AmigaOS's "geek" target audience. Let him do that, heck, he could be required to sign a license for distributing the software and using the "Amiga" trademark or whatever, but for chrissakes sell the OS separately without any licensing requirements too!
> Just take a look on Amithlon, it runs on PC's, but it too doesn't support all
> types of cards, that's why Bernie said it was best to buy this & that piece of
> hardware.
WTF does that have to do with compulsory hardware licensing? Would a software vendor somehow be unable to say "this software is officially supported on hardware X, Y and Z" unless he requires those hardware vemndors to become licensees? Should Bernie stop selling (well, not start selling) Berniethlon and instead only sell PC's with Berniethlon bundled?
> If Hyperion were to develop AOS4 for Pegasos without thendic licencing it, who
> do you think will get the complaints? Not thendic, but Hyperion.
Yes, and? If the package containing the software says "this software runs and is supported on the Teron CX, Teron PX, Pegasos, ..., hardware" then yes of course the software vendor would be responsible for software support - and the hardware vendor for hardware support.
As I've said before, if people were allowed to buy the OS separately, it wouldn't even have to be Hyperion who made ports or provided support for platforms they don't feel like supporting. Since the Pegasos repeatedly comes up as if the Terons and Pegasos is and forever will be the only hardware in the world, I'll keep using that example: Any third party could be selling a Pegasos-Pack or whatever for separately sold copies of AOS, containing the necessary drivers, and also provide support for AOS-on-Pegasos.
> As for Thendic refusing to acquire a licence,
If I were Thendic, or any other hardware vendor (although Thendic distributes their own competing OS as well!), I'd kindly "refuse" the "offer" too.
I'd have to sell and support a competitor's OS (or if I didn't already sell an OS I'd have to become a software vendor) and I'd have to set up a separate production run of "dongled" hardware only to be sold bundled with AOS.
If a third party licensed a Pegasos, this would mean that AOS customers would only be allowed to buy their Pegasoses via that third party.
> it's a means to ensure both Eyetech & Hyperion get their money
No, not Hyperion. Their income is made dependent on Eyetech sales of the Teron boards. The only beneficiary here is Eyetech, and that's in the short run. They get an at least initial monopoly on hardware that AmigaOS is allowed to run on, but of course they could sell more and cheaper hardware if they could sell the exact same hardware to all customers regardless of OS, not having to consider special dongled versions et c.
> counter productive, and hinders competition, but in fact, it doesn't, Thendic
> can get the licence & in that way also secure a share of the market.
And there's the old "Teron vs. Pegasos" fixation again. Thendic is just *one* company, with one hardware product. The hardware exclusion is by default. All hardware is unavailable for AmigaOS users unless a hypothetical licensee appears, and then the hardware would only be available via that licensee. It's a sick system.
Sure, everyone is "free" to apply for a license. Everyone is free not to as well. The latter is the most attractive, because there's no incentive in the first case, only obligations. For someone like Apple, being "free" to apply for an "Amiga license" is like being "free" to put their fingers in a vice. It's a "freedom", but not any attractive.
> Why can't you see the need for this scheme in such a microscopic market in the
> first place?
Please explain why splitting and restricting a microscopic market is needed? I've read the pitiful "anti piracy" and "quality control" nonsense in the marketing as well, but that was not written in the "it's good for a microscopic market" context.
> These people invested lots of cash in these projects,
So Hyperion should SELL SELL SELL their product and do absolutely anything they can to get it running on as much attractive hardware as possible.
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 297 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 08-Nov-2002 20:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 292 (Amon_Re):
Well, there is the OS4 for PowerUP cards without donglecode which are 10000 units
vs. Pegasos at maybe 1000...
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 298 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 08-Nov-2002 20:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 294 (strobe):
From my own experiances with customers & PC's i can tell you this:
The average user will always go to the place he bought his pc when he/she is in trouble, if i were to be selling Mobo's that ran linuxPPC, and someone enters the shop complaining i sold him bad hardware because AOS4 or MOS doesn't run on it, what should i do? take the board back or loose a customer?
Do you see where i'm going at? Do you know how many questions i get about problems with software we don't even distribute? Any idea in how many manhours gets wasted by this?
If people have trouble with their PC they will do one of 3 things:
- 1: Bug the shop or manufacturor (in this case it's eighter Thendic & resellers or eyetech & resellers)
- 2: Bug the software creator (eighter bPlan or Hyperion)
- 3: fix it themselves
What group is the most common one? And if they can't get an awnser/solution, what group will they fall back to?
It'll be this: 1>2>3
you & me are an exception to the rule because we know computers well enough to know whom to complain to & how to solve problems ourselves, don't count on everyone to know how to do this
Amon_Re
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 299 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 08-Nov-2002 21:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 295 (strobe):
sorry?
What do you mean?
Amon_Re
Exclusive interview with Ben Hermans! : Comment 300 of 313ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 08-Nov-2002 21:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 296 (Seehund):
@seehunt
The biggest problem with your view is *cost*, who's going to pay for it all?
Lets just say hyperion does do pegasos support for thendic, and thendic doesn't pay for the port, nor gets a licence, who will pay for it then?
The customers? How many customers would that be?
What would you suggest then, as a scheme that would make sure AmigaOS gets out, and that hyperion can make some money out of it, not to mention who will do the support?
Instead of bickering, lets see if we can come to a conclusion on this, i have offered my views on this to you, and explained why i see a need in this, it's your turn now :)
Offer me a scheme that can make sure hyperion gets their money aswell as eyetech, and company X (Thendic, terrasoft, whomever that might want AOS4)
Amon_Re
Anonymous, there are 313 items in your selection (but only 63 shown due to limitation) [1 - 50] [51 - 100] [101 - 150] [151 - 200] [201 - 250] [251 - 300] [301 - 313]
Back to Top