| [News] Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 | ANN.lu |
| Posted on 25-Nov-2002 12:05 GMT by Jens Schönfeld (Edited on 2002-11-25 13:27:25 GMT by Christian Kemp) | 171 comments
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Thendic France will have 30 Pegasos computers on display at ARC 2002. All employees of Genesi will be present, and there will even be a small museum with rare computers! Update: Raquel Velasco and Bill Buck point out that there will only be 30 machines instead of the figure of 50 mentioned earlier, since that is all that is going to fit in their allocated space.
Thendic France has increased their exhibition area, making themselves the biggest exhibitor of AMIGA + RETRO COMPUTING 2002. The reason for this extension is the amount of computers that they are presenting. Visitors of the show have the opportunity to persuade themselves of the combination of the new PPC board and MorphOS. The same amount of computers will be provided for the betatester-cxonference that will take place on the same weekend in room "Berlin 1" of the Dorint-Hotel "Quellenhof", which is located right next to the Eurogress. Thendic France has finalized the booking of this room during a meeting that took place in Aachen on november 21st.
The new company Genesi that unites Thendic France and bplan Germany will be present with all personnel at the show. More than 20 developers of hard- and software will answer your questions.
Read more about the technical data of Pegasos, that has been provided by Thendic France.
In addition to the new machines, Thendic will also bring part of their museum to Aachen. Rare machines like the Walker (Amiga successor that has never been produced) and 8-bit commodore machines will be on display at a separate booth. All the machines are still intact, so you can experience them in action!
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 51 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by catohagen on 25-Nov-2002 22:41 GMT | In reply to Comment 50 (Troels E):
Keep post like this commin...more opinions and personal views and experience
about mos/pegasos is like food...the public needs to know this before decide
if to buy or not.. |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 52 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Daniel Miller on 25-Nov-2002 23:18 GMT | In reply to Comment 46 (catohagen):
catohagen typed:
> Amiga world would be better without them, just my opinion...
You ingrate. They deliver new hardware and OS to this community after a decade
of false promises, they support users at every convention there is, they
invest money time and effort and you say this?
Funny! To imagine a few weeks ago you presented yourself as unbiased. Now you
recite a long biased laundry list of everything you can. I tell you one thing
Bill Buck isn't perfect but he never lied to us.
You're just MorphOS hater #1 as far as I can see! |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 53 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Daniel Miller on 25-Nov-2002 23:31 GMT | In reply to Comment 35 (NihilVor):
NihilVor typed:
> No, not "the name" rhetoric again! This was true during the first ten months,
> but Amiga has is the most significant upgrade to the OS in years, and Amiga
> has increasingly become more involved in working with Hyperium and promoting
> the upgrade. Give them a little credit. :-)
Ha! You mean give MorphOS a little credit because PPC OS was the LAST thing on
Inc.'s mind until Ralph Schmidt demonstrated that it worked, then they say oh
yeah we'll do that, so hand it over.
And ever since Inc. never put one single dime into it, just a few bogus
announcements to keep the Community hanging like "on schedule and rockin."
You want to give someone credit, give it to the people who support the users
and come to all the shows, and DELIVER a product after ten years of BS from
the trademark holders! |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 54 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by José on 25-Nov-2002 23:35 GMT | In reply to Comment 42 (Christophe Decanini):
:) So? Not you, me or anyone knows what goes behing the scenes. Did the Phase5 guys said they didn't want their API changed when they sent the boards ?
And what's the problem about developing another API? Ok, even if not illegal, someone could've respected their request for not making another API etc. (wich prolly didn't happen anyway). Then why are they using other's work, I mean they didn't want people do use the software they wanted in their board!
As for AInc's policies, are the costs so much more higher, to make the arragements for OS4 compatible hardware? I bet no, and majority of people that say's it is doesn't know well anyway. The costs are insignificant. Is there any company that doesn't charge for that, cause most do?! What about quality assurance for people buying OS4? Remember some people selling Voodoo5s, if I remember well, with drivers that did not take advantage of the boards and were unstable? This is only an example of what could happen, and it's not like AInc. is restriging their license to people selling other OSes, or to anyone. Isn't trying to control sofware people run on some hardware much worse?
Again, looking at the Phase5 days, ones were making software to certain boards the owners of the board didn't wanted(but probably didn't asked not to, otherwise they wouldn't get the software for their boards done), the others are using other's work to make profit, wich one is worth? |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 55 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by José on 25-Nov-2002 23:52 GMT | "Ha! You mean give MorphOS a little credit because PPC OS was the LAST thing on
Inc.'s mind until Ralph Schmidt demonstrated that it worked, then they say oh
yeah we'll do that, so hand it over."
Do you know that for sure? I'd bet more that Phase5 guys were too demanding and wanted too control everything. Didn't AInc deserve some control since they spend all millions on the trademark, patents etc.? Probably very few people knew what were the actual conditions, are you one of those persons? |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 56 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by catohagen on 26-Nov-2002 00:02 GMT | In reply to Comment 52 (Daniel Miller):
>Funny! To imagine a few weeks ago you presented yourself as unbiased. Now you
well, I was....things came up recently that made me change my view a bit....
some induviduals from the mos community there really should go see a doctor....
>recite a long biased laundry list of everything you can. I tell you one thing
>Bill Buck isn't perfect but he never lied to us.
Did AmigaInc(amino) lie ? they bought the name and patents in ? 98 ? 99 ?
Before that it was bought and sold 3-4 times ? escom/viscorp/gateway ?
Can you place their failure on its current owners ?
They missed alot(all?) of deadlines, and thats bad too...i know..
>You're just MorphOS hater #1 as far as I can see!
I dont hate MorphOS the OS, matter of fact, when i saw the review in AA, i was
really happy and positive about it...when the public versions came out, i installed
and used it quite frequently...the 30 min and 2 hrs time was quite fun, and
I got help in #morphos from several people there about finetuning its settings
and a new HAL for my mediator board.....I liked it..
then came its fans and the fighting started and I really don't know who started first,
but the disrespect,swearing, and the hate against the Amiga(company/name whatever)
Some people in the mos community and their actions/postings made me decide
that i don't want to be in that community..
I just dont like the company presenting it anymore and some people in the
mos community...they are the ones that made me dislike it...
Does that make me a bad person ? its just my personal opinion...and its made
out of results of the actions from its community....
I ask you to respect my opinion, as I dont blame you or other morphos users
for being OS4 hater #1, just because they belive in morphos.. |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 57 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Daniel Miller on 26-Nov-2002 00:49 GMT | In reply to Comment 55 (José):
José typed:
> Do you know that for sure? I'd bet more that Phase5 guys were too demanding
> and wanted too control everything.
From Ben's own account posted here a couple days ago we know that Amiga Inc and
Hyperion made at least one absolutely unacceptable demand: that bPlan break up
their company that had been together for years and years.
> Didn't AInc deserve some control since they spend all
> millions on the trademark, patents etc.?
^^^^^^^^
Do you know that for sure? |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 58 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by strobe on 26-Nov-2002 00:58 GMT | In reply to Comment 53 (Daniel Miller):
hear hear.
As for AOS4, how many of you people are going to notice when it crashes due to buggy apps? The Name™ worship isn't getting us anywhere, except in debt.
I chuckle when I see Amigans buy A1s which only run Linux/PPC. Haven't they been bitten enough times already? Don't get me wrong, I might LOVE AOS4 if/when it becomes a reality on new hardware, but until then it's vapour.
Try before you buy folks, and shop around. You may even find a non-Amiga related product to your liking. |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 59 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Daniel Miller on 26-Nov-2002 01:16 GMT | In reply to Comment 56 (catohagen):
catohagen typed:
> >recite a long biased laundry list of everything you can. I tell you one
> >thing Bill Buck isn't perfect but he never lied to us.
> Did AmigaInc(amino) lie ?
Yeah, "On Schedule and Rockin'" was a lie. And when they take your money for
T-shirts and coupons, and nobody gets T-shirts and coupons, I guess that is a
lie. And all the BS about strategic partnerships for two years running they
can claim it was all bad luck and people backed out on them, but you know what,
at least half of that had to be lies.
And that crap about September 11th attacks delaying OS 4 and derailing all
their finely laid plans and aspirations? That was the biggest most heinous
lie of all.
But even if this whole Pegasos/MorphOS enterprise does not achieve success
and everyone goes back to whatever they did before at least Genesi team walks
away knowing they weren't liars.
> I ask you to respect my opinion, as I dont blame you or other morphos users
> for being OS4 hater #1, just because they belive in morphos..
Then don't come on here saying "Amiga world would be better off without so and
so." |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 60 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 26-Nov-2002 02:16 GMT | In reply to Comment 56 (catohagen):
Well, it certainly makes you a person with lack of good judgement...
Suddenly turning aggressive towards a product you obviously liked, just because several perhaps not fully coherent people voiced their (many times, skewed) opinion, makes little sense to me .. if this was true, why do you not do the same towards AmigaOS? Surely you must have noticed that atleast the same amount of illogical resentment and anger has come from "supporters" of that too...
I really don't get these pointless wars and the obvious urge to bash anything that so much as whispers of a competing product .. especially not when it all boils down to alot of backstabbing and outright lies contructed to make the other parties look bad...
Please, base your opinions on facts, not the angry mobs trying to sway you this way or that .. fleeing an opinion just because some that perhaps hold part of the same opinion do things you do not approve of does not make you a good, or even just, person .. perhaps a better way was to keep your opinion and instead try to make that person understand why he/she should not act as they do (and if that has no effect, there's no shame in having partially the same opinion, it is perfectly possible to disagree with a person on certain points, while agreeing on others)...
And moreover, opinions are no reason for war (what is?), even though we can clearly see today that many think it is (but we can also see where it leads, as we have seen so many times before) .. if you truly believe in your opinion, stick to it (until one day, perhaps you figure out it wasn't the right opinion after all), but beware, it's all to easy to ignore certain related facts, because the worst thing that could ever happen to a person is to have to change opinion because it turns out you overlooked something...
- CISC |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 61 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by amigammc on 26-Nov-2002 03:14 GMT | In reply to Comment 20 (priest):
You know, even if your idea might sound good on the paper (other than the boicott part, which i really hate, also useless anyway, how can you boycott a developer that doesn't support you?) you must consider that the few developers left have very limited resorces and very limited revenues from their products. I'm sure they can figure out themselves if it's profitable enough to do one version of an app. or both versions. |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 62 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by amigammc on 26-Nov-2002 03:23 GMT | In reply to Comment 49 (Eva):
Oh, are you an OS4 developer now? |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 63 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by amigammc on 26-Nov-2002 03:29 GMT | In reply to Comment 52 (Daniel Miller):
>They deliver new hardware and OS to this community after a decade
>of false promises,
Let's be objective for a moment Daniel. I know this "false promise" is very popular in the community but tonight I decided that I heard it way too many times. A promise is something that you make to your friends, or family members or if you want I can stretch it to your employees a work. It's not something you make to your customers regarding new products. If your say "You will receive a replacement for this broken product" that's a promise too, but "we will build OS y.x and a new Amiga12345 is not a promise. No company since Commodore included broke a promise. They all invested in projects hoping to make money out of them (they didn't do it for philantropic reasons although some might like to believe that), they failed until *now*, but that has nothing to do with promises. Business is business. Do you really think Bill Buck doesn't dream of becoming super rich and owning his own private jet plane and airport and a bunch of tropical girls with feather fans on his own island? |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 64 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by amigammc on 26-Nov-2002 03:31 GMT | In reply to Comment 53 (Daniel Miller):
>because PPC OS was the LAST thing on Inc.'s mind until Ralph Schmidt
>demonstrated that it worked, then they say oh yeah we'll do that,
>so hand it over.
Well, that's what the "other side" likes to believe anyway. From my face to face conversations with Bill McEwen that had really nothing to do with it. |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 65 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by amigammc on 26-Nov-2002 03:35 GMT | In reply to Comment 57 (Daniel Miller):
>Do you know that for sure?
Well, I don't know about him but I do know that for sure and I know the exact amount. |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 66 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Steve on 26-Nov-2002 05:16 GMT | In reply to Comment 64 (amigammc):
Hello,
" >because PPC OS was the LAST thing on Inc.'s mind until Ralph Schmidt
>demonstrated that it worked, then they say oh yeah we'll do that,
>so hand it over.
Well, that's what the "other side" likes to believe anyway. From my face to face conversations with Bill McEwen that had really nothing to do with it."
Well that was the official position of Amiga Inc at the beginning. And Bill McEwen confirmed that on lot of interviews at the beginning. With statements like "We won't support Classic AmigaOS further after AmigaOS 3.9 because AmigaDE is the new AmigaOS" (PS: It's not an exact quote, I don't have time this morning to try to find the exact quote, but it's a good transcription).
So maybe now Bill has changed his mind, but the official position of Amiga Inc at the beginning was to go AmigaDE only. |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 67 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bladerunner on 26-Nov-2002 05:37 GMT | In reply to Comment 66 (Steve):
Ah, and you think because of some mind changing of an Amino official, the others should give up their work?
What if they change theri mind agian and again? |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 68 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Steve on 26-Nov-2002 05:44 GMT | In reply to Comment 67 (Bladerunner):
@bladerunner
I never dais that! Why some people are trying to interprate (most of
the time badly) what others say?
I just gave answered to amigammc saying that indeed in the beginning a
PPC Classic AmigaOS was not in the mind of Amiga Inc.
There is no personal opinion on this statement, just facts. So don't
try to interprate any personal opinion from this post, there is simply
no personal opinion. And what you interprated is even not what I
think. |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 69 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bladerunner on 26-Nov-2002 06:31 GMT | In reply to Comment 68 (Steve):
Ok, then sorry for that |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 70 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Stefan Blixth on 26-Nov-2002 06:39 GMT | In reply to Comment 37 (Troels E):
Trols E wrote :
"Come on! Don't compare the Pegasos stability with your old unstable A-4K, offcourse it should be better.
I don't know why you call it __rumours__ that MOS is unstable, it has crashed several times every time it has been on show.
I tried it at the Gothenborg presentation... And it crashed and acted weird when you moved windows around the screen.
If you don't believe me ask Gunne from the Amiga shop there (cant remember it's name???). He saw it and we came to the conclusion that it needed a reboot... Again!
But offcourse as long as MOS only crashes at shows and is rock stable when the betatesters use it at home, theres no problem :-)"
It sounds like you think that my A4k was a horrible crash monster, that
ain't the thing. I run the same tools on both machines (68k, WOS and now
also MOS apps.)
Gunne (GGSData) had a really old version of the Quark-kernel and
Ambient desktop, I had a lot of troubles with it when I first got
my machine. The latest one runs more or less flawless (note it's still a BETA).
Do you really think that OS4 will work w/o any problems just when it's first
will be available for the A1 ?
Be logical and not so f***ing narrow minded!
Stefan 'Develin' Blixth |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 71 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Stefan Blixth on 26-Nov-2002 06:50 GMT | To Troels E:
It was very easy for you to comment the demonstration of MOS, did you see
the OS4-components that was demonstrated the day before (on a 68k machine)?
I never heard you complain about any stability issues there...
Well, what I did see was not anything better than what you described about
the MOS demonstration. So please stop this single side battle...
/Develin |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 72 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by catohagen on 26-Nov-2002 06:55 GMT | In reply to Comment 67 (Bladerunner):
>Ah, and you think because of some mind changing of an Amino official, the others should give up their work?
no they shouldn't, but they could try to present their product into the marked
in a professional way instead of all this crap we're seeing lately...They are
deliberatly try to split/stir up the community, and doing everything they
can to break out fights in the community...*YES THEY ARE*
Come on, what really was the meaning with the latest 'we hold Amiga licence and patents' stunt ??
It just shows how much they need to be in the headlines, and uses anything they can
to get back in, a 2 year old contract ? and throws in in, between messages hidden
inside a thread, so you know one of your faithful followers will find...
And the shit about the 'We took the blue pill' wallpaper....so, the rest of
the community took the red and like in a dream ? and Amiga Inc are... "the matrix" ??
A proffessional business wouldn't go for such 'below the belt' tricks...
If their product are so good and stable as they marketing it as, why the h*ll
do they need to cling/leech as close as they can to the 'amiga' name then ?
Bring it out, and let people judge the product on their own....no ?
A person who purchased the Betatester package, commented on some questions
asked in a thread, and suddenly he's acused of lying and he don't have the product ?
What are you so afraid of ? |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 73 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by catohagen on 26-Nov-2002 07:04 GMT | In reply to Comment 71 (Stefan Blixth):
>It was very easy for you to comment the demonstration of MOS, did you see
>the OS4-components that was demonstrated the day before (on a 68k machine)?
>I never heard you complain about any stability issues there...
>Well, what I did see was not anything better than what you described about
>the MOS demonstration. So please stop this single side battle...
This is ann, and he's voicing his personal experience and opinions ?
WHats your problem ?
>Be logical and not so f***ing narrow minded!
Grow up and stop with the insulting will ya ? Whats wrong with you people ?
Every time some pressure gains, and you all go crasy.
Some new screenshots of OS4 came around, and look...
The Pegasos comes to life at the Amiga+Retro Show (44)
Pegasos show in Stockholm (13)
Genesi's turn to be featured on Slashdot.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents?
Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002
I bet the screenshots where quickly forgotten :) |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 74 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Stefan Blixth on 26-Nov-2002 07:36 GMT | In reply to Comment 73 (catohagen):
Posted by catohagen (81.29.32.150) on 26-Nov-2002 08:04:21
>>It was very easy for you to comment the demonstration of MOS, did you see
>>the OS4-components that was demonstrated the day before (on a 68k machine)?
>>I never heard you complain about any stability issues there...
>>Well, what I did see was not anything better than what you described about
>>the MOS demonstration. So please stop this single side battle...
>This is ann, and he's voicing his personal experience and opinions ?
>WHats your problem ?
Well, I think I have a lot more experience in this field than he ever
will have. I use my Pegasos 24/7 as well as my other Amigas at home.
I will support OS4 as well, but since that ain't available yet what
can I do?
I need a powerful machine now for my developments and since I won't
go Linux or RedmondOS what choice did I have (as I am a true Amigan)?
>>Be logical and not so f***ing narrow minded!
>Grow up and stop with the insulting will ya ? Whats wrong with you people ?
>Every time some pressure gains, and you all go crasy.
>Some new screenshots of OS4 came around, and look...
But people need to wake up for God sake, instead of cause a lot of anger
to people who actually use these new systems all day long and doesn't
find them any "repulsive" and flaky as many tries to make them.
What's an Amiga for you, the brand or the feeling (spirit)?
>The Pegasos comes to life at the Amiga+Retro Show (44)
>Pegasos show in Stockholm (13)
>Genesi's turn to be featured on Slashdot.
>Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents?
>Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002
>I bet the screenshots where quickly forgotten :)
Some of the screenshoots was very nice, but unless I can touch the OS
with my own hands it's nothing else than a dream for me.
So when Amiga Inc. releases screenshoots, the "MOS-camp" demonstrates
machines in real life. Now what's your problem ?
/Develin |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 75 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by strobe on 26-Nov-2002 07:45 GMT | In reply to Comment 64 (amigammc):
>From my face to face conversations with Bill McEwen that had really nothing to do with it.
I doubt I could keep a straight face in a conversation with that pathalogical liar.
I'm sure McEwen said something like "oh yea, it was my idea the whole time...so was NASA and BT Rail...AOS5 exists in a form beyond dry marker...I like poop..." |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 76 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Stefan Burström on 26-Nov-2002 08:01 GMT | In reply to Comment 57 (Daniel Miller):
In Reply to Comment 55:
José typed:
>From Ben's own account posted here a couple days ago we know that Amiga Inc >and
>Hyperion made at least one absolutely unacceptable demand: that bPlan break up
>their company that had been together for years and years.
Seriously, what do you mean? Do you think it is better that 1 company controls both 1 hardware implementation and the OS? Get real! All of you that are so
loudly shouts about AOS for Pegasos, could you imagine how keen bPlan would
be to port Quark to other platforms than their own? You can say whatever you
want about that people say, but unless you have been working in the computer
industry for a while you don't have a clue how this works.
The only important thing was that bPlan had to split its software and hardware
department into 2 separate entities. Otherwise you'd have to be a partner
and a competitor at the same time which from a legal point of view never really
worked well.
regards,
Stefan |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 77 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Senex on 26-Nov-2002 09:19 GMT | How boring...
Each time the same from the Anti-Thendic-people. (I don't say "BAFs" or anything like this since I of course respect that some users really prefer to cling to just the name even if MorphOS would be "the best OS of the galaxy", as someone on Amiga.org said. It's their opinion, it's okay.)
"Thendic has no interest in Amiga users" - wrong. Often repeated but wrong. Everyone who actually read that thread on ANN would know that Mr. Buck was talking about "Amiga (Inc.)". They, Amiga Inc., are not needed, since Genesi has all they need themselves. But everyone knows that Thendic indeed cared for the Amiga users and developers right from the start. Of course. Since - Mr. Buck's only mistake in that thread - AMIGA is much, much more than just the respective company holding the trademark.
"MorphOS doesn't crash at betatesters" - well, what can I say? I can only speak about what I'm experiencing every evening at home: a very stable and usable Pegasos running MorphOS. Therefore the only thing you could blame those demonstrating the Pegasos on previous shows is that they were so honest to show that many programs and not just a selected few which were rock-stable and not buggy. And maybe for putting the very latest beta on those machines instead of one which had been betatested already a bit and fixed.
"Thendic has done nothing for the Amiga" - wow, what a wonderful own-goal! Genesi (Thendic+bplan) develops, produces and delivers hard- and software. Even themselves, by the way. Members of Genesi and friends developed famous key applications and hardware in the past. Among them the very same PPC-boards OS4 is developed on by Hyperion. MorphOS convinced the current Amiga Inc. that a PPC-AmigaOS is possible. Genesi cares for the community, visits many Amiga shows and fairs. They support creative and dedicated users and developers, for example by discounts. They have among their employees and partners well-known people from earlier days, for example Allan Havemose (developing the Java-VM for Genesi), Petro Tyschtschenko (Power-Trading) or Helmut Jost (Ex-Commodore Germany, Ex-Escom). And, in opposite to Amiga "no office" Inc. they do have, thanks to their network of companies, several products to sell and therefore the necessary loose cash for purchasing modern technologies.
In short: They continue the famous Amiga-Spirit and do care very much for the Amiga community - while the current Amiga Inc., back in their early days with their Tao-dreams, didn't gave a damn about our wishes and interests. |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 78 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Nicholai Benalal on 26-Nov-2002 09:37 GMT | In reply to Comment 76 (Stefan Burström):
"The only important thing was that bPlan had to split its software and hardware
department into 2 separate entities."
Stefan, this was certainly not the only important thing to consider. It was not even a main issue in the discussions. As far as I can recall you were not involved, were you? So what objective information can you possibly have?
What was indeed important for us were the following considerations:
1) Amiga Inc demanded to do project management but considering their track record in combination with the bad impression we had of their skills, we did not consider them able to handle it. In retrospect, I am even more convinced about this point.
2) They wanted to disallow us to use cybergraphics (in favour of another solution) which was at the time already was completely ppc native and independent of amiga legacy hardware. This would have meant giving up a working system with little prospects of having something new that would work within a reasonable timespan.
3) Very unprofessional handling of the negociations. Suddenly, in the final draft of the contract, they changed the licence sum by 80% without prior notice.
4) The contract was reviewed and probably heavily influence by Ben Hermans (who was later appointed the contract). How can anyone claim that to be nice
business practice?
5) There was no information on the state of H&P's WB 3.5/3.9 ownership.
I would also like to know why you think, trying to have a critical approach to the computer industry, that Ben Hermans would be neutral in respect to hardware developers? I would personally find that extremely surprising (and it won't help if he steps in here to contradict).
Regards,
Nicholai |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 79 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by priest on 26-Nov-2002 09:54 GMT | In reply to Comment 57 (Daniel Miller):
>> Do you know that for sure? I'd bet more that Phase5 guys were too
>> demanding and wanted too control everything.
>From Ben's own account posted here a couple days ago we know that
>Amiga Inc and Hyperion made at least one absolutely unacceptable demand:
>that bPlan break up their company
Hmmm... You mean that the OS and HW was not allowed to be done by the one and same company? I call that totally understandable demand.
IMO: MOS is about control. Just like PowerUP.
>that had been together for years and years.
How many years had bplan been up? |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 80 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Senex on 26-Nov-2002 09:56 GMT | In reply to Comment 72 (catohagen):
@catohagen:
> A person who purchased the Betatester package,
> commented on some questions asked in a thread,
> and suddenly he's acused of lying and he don't
> have the product ?
What exactly do you mean? If we're talking about the same (I really can't search for the details now since I'm at work), it was someone talking for example that MUI wasn't registered on his BETATESTER-2-CD. And then the Thendic-haters tried to make it seem as if this would then "of course" be also the same for the FINAL, commercial User-CD... - Again, of course the commercial release will include registered MUI, CGX, etc. |
|
| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 81 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by priest on 26-Nov-2002 09:56 GMT | In reply to Comment 79 (priest):
"MOS is about control." untill proven otherwise, that is. |
|
| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 82 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Jacek Piszczek on 26-Nov-2002 10:15 GMT | In reply to Comment 79 (priest):
>How many years had bplan been up?
phase5 was formed in 1992. This means that the company had been up much longer than the current Amiga IP owners. And please don't say it's some other company; "the name" doesn't matter, what matters is people. |
|
| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 83 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Jupp3 on 26-Nov-2002 10:16 GMT | I won't be going to that show, simply becouse I do *NOT* want to see MorphOS running on Pegasos...
If I did, I'd just feel even worse knowing that there's absolutely no way, I could afford one... It was already too bad after seeing it in Finland...
Well, MOS runs on my BPPC, but it just isn't the same... |
|
| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 84 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by It's MEEEE!!!! on 26-Nov-2002 10:17 GMT | In reply to Comment 54 (José):
> :) So? Not you, me or anyone knows what goes behing the scenes.
> Did the Phase5 guys said they didn't want their API changed when they sent
> the boards ?
What happened with the PPC kernel was a stab in the back and you know it, it doesn't matter if Phase5 tried to get the Amiga Market for themselves or not, at that time no other company was doing anything. What Sam Jordan did was to stab in the back.
> And what's the problem about developing another API? Ok, even if not illegal,
> someone could've respected their request for not making another API etc.
>(wich prolly didn't happen anyway). Then why are they using other's work, I
> mean they didn't want people do use the software they wanted in their board!
They based their wonderful API on all the technical documentation provided by Phase5 at that time, not on their research, if you use technical information provided in good faith for development purposes and you use it against the people who provided it, how do you call it??? Back Stabbing!
Also I don't remember Sam Jordan publishing all the details on their job to the benefit of the community, or the people in Hyperion publishing the Warp3D API details to allow a driver for Amithlon, etc.
Everyone does the same thing, look after their job, bur apparently everyone is legitimised to do this except the people at Phase5, Bplan or MorphOS. |
|
| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 85 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by It's MEE!!! on 26-Nov-2002 10:20 GMT | In reply to Comment 55 (José):
> Do you know that for sure? I'd bet more that Phase5 guys were too demanding and
> wanted too control everything. Didn't AInc deserve some control since they
> spend all millions on the trademark, patents etc.? Probably very few people
> knew what were the actual conditions, are you one of those persons?
And why you are so confident on Phase5's guys guilty???? you were there to see it???
Why are you acting as the Devil's advocate??? |
|
| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 86 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Senex on 26-Nov-2002 10:22 GMT | Additionally, about "Thendic not caring for the Amiga users", here is a quote of Thendic taken from Amiga.org:
"This is precisely the reason we have finally felt it was necessary to go 'public." How is this effort unprofessional? We are interested in gaining the support of the Community and to make a fully informed decision the Community should know all the facts. Certainly, you are entitiled to you opinion, but the Community is our FIRST interest and focus here on these threads -- NOT Amiga Inc. Amiga Inc. does not own the "amiga spirit" or the Community." |
|
| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 87 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by It's MEEE again! on 26-Nov-2002 10:29 GMT | In reply to Comment 81 (priest):
Yes, Hyperion is doing this to make us free!!!! Cool!
I'm amazed how naive is some people... |
|
| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 88 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by It's MEEE again! on 26-Nov-2002 10:29 GMT | In reply to Comment 81 (priest):
Yes, Hyperion is doing this to make us free!!!! Cool!
I'm amazed how naive is some people... |
|
| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 89 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Nicolas Sallin on 26-Nov-2002 10:31 GMT | In reply to Comment 72 (catohagen):
> A person who purchased the Betatester package, commented on some
> questions asked in a thread, and suddenly he's accused of lying and
> he don't have the product?
The problem is that this person really doesn't have the product.
It's sad to see some people acting this way :-/ |
|
| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 90 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by catohagen on 26-Nov-2002 10:47 GMT | In reply to Comment 80 (Senex):
I found the post you where looking for :
********************************************************************
Posted by 4pLaY (217.118.47.104) on 24-Nov-2002 14:27:22
In Reply to Comment 5:
Hi Galaxy long time =) ill awnser some of them for you:
>What exactly is on the MorphOS CD?
MOS 1.0 cd contains a ISO of MOS 1.0 nothing more (yes a ISO dont ask me why)
>What applications does MorphOS come bundled with? (MUI registered, Browser, >Mailer etc...)
As of v1.0 cd! NOTHING not even MUI is regged yet on that CD.
>What are the default tools on MorphOS? (HDToolbox, Clock, Calculator, >Editor...)
Havent checked everything yet but as of now there is still no HDtoolbox clone and you will have to make do with scsiconfig untill theyre Hdtoolbox clone is done.
>What technologies does MorphOS support? (TCP/IP stack, PPPOE, PPP etc...)
Havent had time to get it online yet so dunno
>How stable is it? (ok a mean question)
Beta state! perhaps Alpha.
>How easy is it to install?
for a Joe user NOT very easy and the documentation is non existent you will have to digg online and
ask people to find out things like "no it cant reset with the keyboard yet" and "it will only take
buffered/registered ram" "you will need to use a NEW hd as the scsiconfig thingy you will have to live
with aint exactly the best thing" and several other issues but i wont go in to them now!
all around its a nice system with some potential if they do it right but as of NOW it AINT
suitable for Joe User its as simple as that! theyre more behind then i thought before i tried it!
it acctualy makes me think AROS isnt that far behind.
********************************************************************
then comes :
********************************************************************
Posted by Nicolas Sallin (80.236.73.144) on 24-Nov-2002 15:02:04
In Reply to Comment 6:
Users CD wasn't in you hands when you wrote your post.
So, everything you said is wrong.
Sorry.
********************************************************************
As everyone can see, its missing alot and it would help to get all the missing
info in a html page released on one of the morphos homepages and everyone
that have claimed that mos is ready and you can buy it now, would reconsider
its current state, as its not ready yet.
Nicolas Sallin tells him everything is wrong, now..is everything wrong ?
Was the cd he got a wrong one ? Or did he get the same cd as everyone else
buying Betatester packages...if so, Nicolas Sallin.. reply and say he's right. |
|
| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 91 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by catohagen on 26-Nov-2002 10:56 GMT | In reply to Comment 89 (Nicolas Sallin):
its strange he should lie about it everywhere,
heres a news item posted my 4play, that he
have ordered a small batch of pegasos boards
and will try selling them in norway.
http://polarboing.com/article.php?sid=1476
heres the post (in norwegian though):
****************************************************************************
Kilde: Ola Jensen
Lagt inn av 4play torsdag, 31. oktober @ 20:10:10 CET
Jeg har nå kjøpt inn et parti Pegasos-kort til Norge og de er for tiden i tollen og koser seg.
Jeg regner med å ha dem i hus tidlig neste uke. MorphOS v1.0 CD'ene er allerede kommet. Jeg aner ikke om Pegasos blir noe populært i Norge, derfor bestilte jeg bare noen kort nå til å begynne med for å se om det finnes noen interesse for dem. Om interessen er der kommer jeg til og bestille enda flere og gjøre mer firma ut av det (har allerede laget en liten webshop for å få solgt de jeg har bestilt).
Prisen er enda ikke fastsatt men en plass mellom 4-5000 NOK for Pegasos-hovedkort + G3 600Mhz CPU og MOS 1.0 CD'n vil jeg tippe. De som er interessert i å anskaffe seg et av denne første batchen kan ta kontakt med og send meg en mail på olajen@bluezone.no.
****************************************************************************
still think he's lying ? why post all that to a site where he's a moderator ? |
|
| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 92 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Senex on 26-Nov-2002 11:10 GMT | In reply to Comment 90 (catohagen):
Neither do I understand what's so difficult to just copy the content of the MorphOS-CD onto your harddrive (wished the installation of Microsoft's operating system would be as easy) nor what's the problem with a BETA-CD containing a MUI-version (ported to PPC by the MOS-team, btw) that's not registred but fully functional? As you were told already that's not the User-CD you'll acquire at the commercial release.
Furthermore Microsoft shouldn't make you think that a web-browser would be an integral part of a operating system. Since your Avatar at Amiga.org is a boy pissing onto a Morpho-butterfly (so much regarding the topic "unbiased"), I'm perfectly sure in case Voyager would have been included you'd also compkain about this, i.e. not also including competing products. Or whatever. If someone really wants to, he would always find something (or the opposite of it) to complain about. |
|
| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 93 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 26-Nov-2002 11:16 GMT | In reply to Comment 79 (priest):
"You mean that the OS and HW was not allowed to be done by the one and same company? I call that totally understandable demand. "
I guess you always refused to buy an Amiga in the past for that very reason, right? |
|
| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 94 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 26-Nov-2002 11:19 GMT | In reply to Comment 90 (catohagen):
The truth of the matter, as you know perfectly well, is that the BETATESTER CD, to which the original poster refers, is NOT the END USER CD.
I.e. the contents of the BETATESTER CD do not necessarily reflect what will appear on the final User CD.
Is that really too complicated for you to understand? |
|
| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 95 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by catohagen on 26-Nov-2002 11:55 GMT | In reply to Comment 94 (Anonymous):
>The truth of the matter, as you know perfectly well, is that the BETATESTER CD, to >which the original poster refers, is NOT the END USER CD.
well, the END USER CD isnt AVAILABLE YET IS IT ?? he commented about whats available now.
So mos community should stop shouting *its here, you can buy it *NOW, wheres OS4 ?* when its not out yet.
>I.e. the contents of the BETATESTER CD do not necessarily reflect what will appear >on the final User CD.
Ofcource, its self explainatory...but he told about whats included in the
BETATESTER package, not the END USER package, still people claims he*s lying.
The cd he was commenting about was the cd *you can buy now, its here..you can use it*
>Is that really too complicated for you to understand?
reread my post, you didn*t understand....
So, how far up the road are the End user release then ? |
|
| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 96 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Jedi on 26-Nov-2002 12:07 GMT | In reply to Comment 95 (catohagen):
> well, the END USER CD isnt AVAILABLE YET IS IT ?? he commented about whats
> available now.
> So mos community should stop shouting *its here, you can buy it *NOW, wheres
> OS4 ?* when its not out yet.
Don't be ridiculous. You have yourself the answer.
> So, how far up the road are the End user release then ?
Read again the last News from Thendic-France...
(if you have always not understood :
-> Until Aachen : Betatest version of Pegasos/MorphOS (and CD)
-> After Aachen : Final and commercial release of Pegasos/MorphOS (and CD)
Is it clear for you now ?...) |
|
| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 97 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anders Kjeldsen on 26-Nov-2002 12:46 GMT | In reply to Comment 95 (catohagen):
Perhaps 4-play has gotten som CD's that he wasn't supposed to have ? |
|
| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 98 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by dirigent on 26-Nov-2002 12:50 GMT | In reply to Comment 59 (Daniel Miller):
>Yeah, "On Schedule and Rockin'" was a lie. And when they take your money for
>T-shirts and coupons, and nobody gets T-shirts and coupons, I guess that is a
>lie. And all the BS about strategic partnerships for two years running they
>can claim it was all bad luck and people backed out on them, but you know what,
>at least half of that had to be lies.
At the time when the statement was made, "on schedule an rockin'" may have
been optimistic. There is no reason why one should assume it was a lie. This
is only an unfounded claim of yours.
>And that crap about September 11th attacks delaying OS 4 and derailing all
>their finely laid plans and aspirations? That was the biggest most heinous
>lie of all.
Well, you know, the fact is that 9/11 simply *DID* have an enourmous impact
on the economy. (The general .com crisis was also an independent development,
which led to it being harder to find investors.) So, again, there is absolutely
no reason at all to assume that they are lying there.
Greetings,
dirigent |
|
| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 99 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anders Kjeldsen on 26-Nov-2002 12:53 GMT | In reply to Comment 89 (Nicolas Sallin):
>The problem is that this person really doesn't have the product.
>It's sad to see some people acting this way :-/
What's the problem? That he said "V1.0" instead of "BetatesterII" ? I know that he THOUGHT he had gotten V1.0 when he got the CDs. (He imported some Pegasos'es to Norway) If this is so, maybe you could just mention that he was actually refering to the BetatesterII-CD's instead of making a scene? |
|
| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 100 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by dirigent on 26-Nov-2002 12:54 GMT | In reply to Comment 68 (Steve):
>I just gave answered to amigammc saying that indeed in the beginning a
>PPC Classic AmigaOS was not in the mind of Amiga Inc.
>There is no personal opinion on this statement, just facts. So don't
>try to interprate any personal opinion from this post, there is simply
>no personal opinion. And what you interprated is even not what I
>think.
IIRC, it is for the plain fact that they wanted to go OS5 from the beginning
on, then realising that an intermediate step was necessary. (Different
requirements from them and Tao concerning Memory Protection being a reason
for that.)
Calm down people.
Greetings,
dirigent |
|
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