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[News] Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit ReleaseANN.lu
Posted on 14-Feb-2003 13:52 GMT by Senex107 comments
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Paris, France and Taipei Hsien, Taiwan February 14, 2002. Plexuscom a designer and manufactures of broadband Internet access solutions and appliances has reached an agreement with Genesi Sarl to produce and deliver limited quantities of the PegasosPPC computer for release at CeBIT 2003. Genesi and Plexuscom will share a Booth at CeBIT, 12-19 March in Hannover, Germany. Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC

Paris, France and Taipei Hsien, Taiwan February 14, 2002. Plexuscom a designer and manufactures of broadband Internet access solutions and appliances has reached an agreement with Genesi Sarl to produce and deliver limited quantities of the PegasosPPC computer for release at CeBIT 2003. Genesi and Plexuscom will share a Booth at CeBIT, 12-19 March in Hannover, Germany.

"We are very pleased to work with Plexuscom on the Pegasos," said Gerald Carda, Chief Technology Officer of Genesi. "Through this partnership, we look forward to greater collaboration in development and marketing efforts. Plexuscom’s expertise in development and manufacturing technologies and Genesi's system design and architecture will be combined to promote an exciting alternative platform for the Micro-ATX marketplace.

The two companies share a common vision. That is, to create products that are designed to achieve exceptional performance while reducing per-unit costs and time-to-market, commented John Tseng, President of Plexuscom. "Our first priority at Plexuscom continues to be our customers, and we are confident that by aligning with a partner like Genesi, we will rapidly expand our position globally and customers will benefit from the performance, flexibility and scalability of these new system capabilities."

The Pegasos MicroATX features

The Pegasos MicroPPC is a small, low power PowerPC motherboard with the following features:

Takes Single or Dual PowerPC RISC CPU (G3 or G4)
Supplied with 600MHz IBM G3
Mai Logic Articia with bplan April2 Northbridge
VIA Southbridge
AGP X2 slot
3 X PCI slots
ATA100 with two channels with up to four ATA devices
3 X Firewire
10/100 Mbit Ethernet
Audio I/O
SPDIF Out
4 X USB
Parallel
Serial
PS2 Keyboard
PS2 Mouse
Riser connector
OpenFirmware based BIOS
Supplied with MorphOS, Debian Linux and Mac-on-Linux
Other operating systems in development.

Genesi and the Pegasos, Innovation for the Future

Genesi is a technology development and system integration engineering company located in Frankfurt, Germany, Paris, France and headquartered in Luxembourg. Genesi also operates through wholly owned subsidiaries in the United Sates and the United Kingdom, Genesi USA Inc. and Genesi UK Ltd. In addition to the Pegasos, Genesi has also developed the new Operating System, MorphOS, for PowerPC microprocessors. Designed for the Pegasos, MorphOS is a highly responsive, low overhead, desktop system, which runs hundreds of different applications.

Plexuscom, A Technology Power House

Plexuscom designs, manufactures, markets and delivers broadband Internet access solutions, Information appliance and USB peripherals.

Plexuscom's extraordinary commitment to customer needs is evidenced by its devotion to the production of customized products for diverse regional markets. Plexuscom is dedicated to the development of easy-to-use, reliable, low-maintenance and affordable high-speed solution for worldwide markets.

Plexuscom's strategic objective is to remain a market leader the development, implementation, supply and support of broadband Internet access, information appliance solutions, and USB peripherals.

Contact Information:

Plexuscom Contact:
John Tseng
john.tseng@plexuscom.com.tw
www.plexuscom.com

Genesi Contact:
Raquel Velasco and Bill Buck
bbrv@genesi.lu
www.pegasosppc.com
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 51 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Janne Sirén on 16-Feb-2003 09:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (alan buxey):
>1) Linux isnt *nix - as anyone with 1/2 clue would know
>(*nix is the real stuff, * doesnt mean wildcard match,
>its a 'not UNIX' copyright clause)

If you are referring to my comments, I would like to make a clarification.

a) I didn't think, nor have I ever thought, * as a wildcard in *nix, but a way of "saying the name" without "breaking the copyright". Not so different as what we are facing today in the Amiga community. I have used the word *miga also to make this same point - MorphOS doesn't match with *miga wildcard, but *miga does allow one to call something "Amiga" without calling it Amiga.

b) I'm not saying GNU/Linux is UNIX. Heck, GNU stands for GNU is Not Unix or something. But I'm saying that to the majority of computer enthusiasts the word UNIX would seem to mean a larger family of related operating systems. Surely there are people who are pedantic and disagree, but as a common sense tool, the word UNIX does invoke the association with Solaris, NetBSD, Linux etc. (not all of them UNIX) in many people - and in my opinion, rightly so.

c) With a) and b) in mind, we certainly have an analogy of UNIX and AmigaOS (or Amiga here for brevity). Both are cloned operating systems. These clones are closely related to the original in many ways. Coding to UNIX is in many ways like coding to Linux (lets not get into details here folks), just like coding to AROS or MorphOS is much like coding to AmigaOS. I believe a valid analogy exists, and the years of experience in the UNIX world in clone operating systems is something we can draw some valuable lessons from.

That was my point. If you want to turn it into a discussion of what is or is not UNIX, feel free. But you would be missing my point and the way how the world UNIX is perceived by a wider audience - and how that perception might help us define for ourselves what we consider as Amiga.
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 52 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Janne Sirén on 16-Feb-2003 09:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (Janne Sirén):
>world UNIX

word UNIX

Sorry about that.
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 53 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Feb-2003 10:53 GMT
Why are they releasing a SET TOP BOX at the CeBIT? I thought they gonna release a fullworthy Computer System? On Amiga-News.de people are discussing this issue already and the Genesi employees aren't capable to give their possible customers a direct straight answer. The picture presented on Morphos-News.de shows in detail the Fragments of a SET TOP BOX and imo it's tiredsome and incorrect presenting the Pegasos Computer as such a device the very first time to the community. While listening to the halfassed replies of the Genesi employees facts seem to harden that the first announce to the public on the worlds largest computer show will be a STB.

Pictures:
http://www.morphos-news.de/index.php?lg=de&nid=289&si=1

Comments (in german):
http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/comments/thread/AN-2003-02-00147-DE.html
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 54 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Keith Blakemore-Noble on 16-Feb-2003 12:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (coldfire):
" They call it GNU/Linux mostly...I think I recall GNU as standing for GNU Not Linux or some such. "

No no no.

"They" (The creators of Linux) call it Linux.

A few of those who follow every word that RMS spouts adhere to his attempts to take credit for Linux by calling it GNU/Linux, but they are few and far betwqeen - Linux is the name of the system.

GNU is RMS's hillarious recursive acronym "GNU's Not Unix".

Linux is not Unix either, but that's a seperate issue :-) (And these days "they" are FINALLY giving in and actually adhering to existing standards, making Linux almost semi-compatible with the variou sunices out there.)
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 55 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Leo on 16-Feb-2003 13:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (bbrv):
>BTW, we will be offering the next batch of boards through the channels we have used in the past AND through the Phoenix Developer Consortium. The price for Phoenix members who are participating in our quasi-sourceforge relationship with Genesi is $299 for the Pegasos mainboard with CPU.

When asking for more information about the developpers offer (as I personnally
cannot afford a full-price MB), I have been told that ONLY developpers working for (and PAYED by) Genesi had access to special prices...

Strange... Are the Phoenix members being payed by Genesi for their work ?

Regards,
Leo.
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 56 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 16-Feb-2003 13:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (coldfire):
coldfire wrote:
> Perhaps. I only know that most of the goods I've bought from china and other far eastern places, with the exception of Japan, tend to be substandard.

I think that's been the pattern for sure. My point was that it isn't necessarily the case. It all depends on the specifics. If companies are driven by cost concerns and trying to do things as cheaply as possible, there are problems. But if they both want lower costs and need to maintain quality in order to compete in their markets, that can be done in the far east as well.
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 57 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 16-Feb-2003 13:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (Leo):
Leo wrote:
> When asking for more information about the developpers offer (as I personnally
cannot afford a full-price MB), I have been told that ONLY developpers working for (and PAYED by) Genesi had access to special prices...

That may have been true earlier. This Phoenix arrangement is something new. (Things are moving fast these days :-) ).

> Strange... Are the Phoenix members being payed by Genesi for their work ?

Phoenix is a rather loose organization of people with diverse interests; some members are involved with Genesi and others aren't. Some may be doing work with Genesi and getting paid for it, but if so this is entirely separate from Genesi's new motherboard deal.

If you are interested in the board for development purposes (and I understand "development" is defined rather broadly), and especially if you are interested in projects to further the "amiga" or "post-amiga" platform (also defined broadly), then I recommend contacting greenboy at phinixi.com for more information.

-- gary_c
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 58 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Leo on 16-Feb-2003 13:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (gary_c):
>If you are interested in the board for development purposes (and I understand "development" is defined rather broadly), and especially if you are interested in projects to further the "amiga" or "post-amiga" platform (also defined broadly), then I recommend contacting greenboy at phinixi.com for more information.

What do you exactly mean by "projects to further the "amiga" and "post-amiga"
platform" ?

Regards,
Leo.
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 59 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 16-Feb-2003 14:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Anonymous):
It is a computer...it is just in a different type of case then what you may be used to...;-)

R&B
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 60 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 16-Feb-2003 14:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (Leo):
Leo wrote:
> What do you exactly mean by "projects to further the "amiga" and "post-amiga"
platform" ?

I didn't mean anything in particular, just sort of indicating the kind of general area most Phoenix members are interested in. There's a better description at phinixi.com. The idea of the Phoenix consortium was to be a resource for people that had been active Amiga platform developers (of all kinds, even including noncoding contributions like journalists and retailers). That's the basic mindset. But now we ar in sort of a "post-amiga" era (that's my description, not any kind of official one) that includes all the things going forward now, like AROS and MorphOS more than Amiga, Inc. projects per se. Actually Amiga, Inc. hasn't wanted to cooperate with Phoenix in a mutually beneficial way, so unfortunately "post-amiga" also refers to that sad state of affairs. Other OSs and technologies are also interesting to many members, such as QNX and others, so it's a pretty eclectic group. In this connection, Bill Buck has talked about getting other OSs on Pegasos, including OpenBeOS, so things are very interesting, looking ahead.

-- gary_c
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 61 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by leo on 16-Feb-2003 14:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (gary_c):
Thanks for the information: I just emailed Greenboy...

OpenBeOS... Sounds interesting ;)

Regards,
Leo.
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 62 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel Miller on 16-Feb-2003 15:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (bbrv):
The distinction between "desktop computer" and "settop box" is sort
of artificial since you can put the STB on top of your desk, or hook
up the desktop computer to your television. The only thing to worry
about really is that you sacrifice expansion capabilities due to the
small STB. Can this new configuration accept add-ons such as PCI
cards, and do you get SVGA output and the standard connections?
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 63 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Feb-2003 15:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (bbrv):
@59

Hello BBRV,

I have one simple question to you. I already asked this on amiga-news.de but your employees refused to give a straight and correct answer to my question. Why did your company create a STB like looking case for the biggest computer show in germany called CeBIT. The customers and people who see this kind of devices will assume it's a STB. We here in the little Amiga community know that we can buy the hardware separately and stuff it in any case we like and use it like we used the Amiga in previous times. But your customers and people who are not familar will assume it to be a STB. The case shows it and from what I was told is that you gonna present the 'New Genesi Pegasos Computer' that way on the CeBIT.

Why are you making the whole remaining Amiga community HOT for many months and have their remaining users start a senseless stupid fight with the AmigaONE people when your main intentions are STB's ? A STB has nothing to do with Amiga, the spirit of Amiga or whatever. As written on amiga-news.de I personally don't care if you abuse your hardware for the Eclipsis, STB's or stuff the pegasos mainboard into a coffeemaker. I am only worried that you gonna show the Pegasos as a STB like Device on the CeBIT. If you seriously want to get people back to the Amiga(-Like) and get people programm your hardware and keep it alive by writing software then it may be really better to show it as such on the CeBIT as a full worthy Desktop Computer, with keyboard, mouse, cdrom/dvd/disk drive slots and have it run MorphOS. The picture shown on www.morphos-news.de clearly shows a STB, there are no slots in the case that shows or leads to assume it to carry a DVD, CDROM or diskdrive and the height of that case is aproximately not more than 5 cm. No way to stuff normal PCI hardware inside it. I don't know if this is the right way to go, well I am not in the position to tell you what to do with your hardware or your company or whatever but I am in the best position to carry around wrong 'news' in the whole community and make a lot of people become really pissed off. Your employees and news puppets already told me to make my own 'thoughts' because they where not willing to tell me more. Even simple questions totally simplified which could be answered with yes or no are not being answered.

Look, I'm a developer of Software I had high respect from Genesi, the Pegasos Hardware and the MorphOS Operating System and I was playing a couple of months with my mind to buy such a System in the hope to write commercial Software and make a few bucks with it. While I was also hoping that your company is showing it as full worthy computer to the world so more than just the 1000 remaining possible amiga customers gonna buy it. But showing the Pegasos computer in a STB like case (even if this is not the intention) will only reach the JOE USER who thinks 'wow a nice STB I gonna buy one place it on my TV and use it 1-2 times per week to surf for news'. These people probably never hear about the Amiga(-Spirit, Community) and probably never be able or interested to buy my Software and install it on such a System for global usage. By doing such an announcement I gonna reject buying such Hardware and reject making serious development on it since I don't see a point writing professional applications for a community of 1000 possible Ex-Amigans where probably 10-20 people are legally purchasing my software and the remaining 20000 STB purchasers probably never know that this System can be used for professional Work.

Well I was asking simple questions on www.amiga-news.de and your employees told me to make my own thoughts since they where not willing to answer my questions so please excuse me when I do some assumptions like this and spread missinformed thoughts into the community. But finally you are hurting your own company with this because there is no REAL CLEARIFYING informations. On the biggest german news page named above we exchanged 157 messages about this and at the final end it showed up that many germans lost hope in this.

Please the next time you gonna write Announcements to the public please write them clearly so no missunderstandings come up. This announcement really enlightened anger and flames which where not needed if a) your company writes better announcements and b) allows your employees to answer questions directly and precise and not talking like oracles where we need to pick everything out of their ass. Sorry for writing that directly here on this forum but I got heavily pissed off about your german employees.

We the customers and those interested in your hardware are no beggars or don't want anything as present from you. We are hardworking people who earn money and when we read such annoucements and ask your offiicial employees to answer a few questions then we like to get precise answers and no vague babbeling where we get told to make out own thoughts. You and the remaining other 2-3 Pro-Amiga working companies are in the lucky position where we customers need to beg and act like puppets to get any informations because Amiga market became a little niche market. If you'd done this on the PC/Workstations/Mainframe market then you could close the portals imediately. You build hardware and you announce it to the public in cryptic ways and force us the customers to start rumouring about your intentions. Thats seriously no good business. Your Hardware and Software may be really perfect and I still belive this but I think that your customers relationship and PR totally sucks at least the way your german employees reply to us. Sad that you don't understand german maybe it would be easier for you to understand and realize what I was trying to say on the german amiga-news.de page.

It's sad to see your company abuse the Amiga and the remaining stressed people for your commercialism by offering Desktop Hardware to them and then officially launch the Pegasos System in a STB like case. This is seriously wrong.
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 64 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 16-Feb-2003 15:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (Daniel Miller):
Maybe I am wrong about this, but I don't think this is the STB they were talking about some weeks ago. From BBRV's posts on that issue I would say that the STB will be a completely different new machine, very streamlined in it's specifications, specialized towards a specific use - recieving digital TV broadcasts.

And from the different posts from BBRV regarding *this* issue, I would say that this is a complete Pegasos computer. It's only fitted in a different case. If that is correct, then all specifications from the original Pegasos would apply. The Pegasos motherboard that is going to be used in this case will be a special version of the Pegasos, manufactured by Plexuscom. What differs this one from the original is propably nothing more than physical issues, some components (CPU card, AGP, PCI ?) would have to be "bent" to fit, etc ...

One thing I am wondering about though, is if this one will have a CD/DVD drive. It's hard to tell from the pictures. But that black area in the center on the front side could perhaps be one ...?

BTW, I think this is looking very interesting!
:-)
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 65 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Feb-2003 16:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (takemehomegrandma):
No as stated from David Scheibler and Senex on amiga-news.de this announcement has NOTHING to do with the STB deal with a third party manufacturer as announced some weeks ago.

I'm only wondering why Genesi starts shipping their own STB (which looks like one but wasn't meant to be one) for the biggest german computer show called CeBIT. The possible customers don't see such a device AS a full worthy desktop machine rather than a STB derivate. Sad that Genesi is eyewiping their remaining Amigans with a full worthy Desktop System while they 'firstime announce' it as STB on the CeBIT which has nothing to do with a full wothy Desktop Amiga derivate.
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 66 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 16-Feb-2003 16:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 63 (Anonymous):
Anon #63,

I haven't seen the Genesi/Plexcom booth at CeBIT yet. Have you? I wouldn't jump to so many conclusions what will and what will not be shown there ; } ...Ferinstance, at CES, Psylent was being shown (did computer things as well as set-top things BTW). Did that make the 10 or 12 Pegasos desktops and the Video Microwave disappear? I think not. Did showing Debian and MacOnLinux on some of the machines make the ones with MorphOS vanish? Nope ... not while I was there anyway.

So, relax. No need to go off on tangents or to assume that Genesi is : }

I would however pay more attention to what Genesi has said about packaging in various formats for various markets, and how that can help drive desktop development.

<-- greenboy ---<<<<
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 67 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 16-Feb-2003 16:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 63 (Anonymous):
Wow, that was a very long and angry (for no obvious reason) letter!

> If you seriously want to get people back to the Amiga(-Like) and get people
> programm your hardware and keep it alive by writing software then it may be
> really better to show it as such on the CeBIT as a full worthy Desktop
> Computer, with keyboard, mouse, cdrom/dvd/disk drive slots and have it run
> MorphOS.

I don't know, but have they said that they *won't* show the Pegasos as a desktop computer? You know, they have showed the Pegasos exactly that way on lots and lots of shows allready, including in Las Vegas. Have you really missed that?

> It's sad to see your company abuse the Amiga and the remaining stressed
> people for your commercialism by offering Desktop Hardware to them and then
> officially launch the Pegasos System in a STB like case. This is seriously
> wrong.

How can it be wrong to offer a full blown desktop computer, AND a computer in a STB case, AND (in the future) a STB, AND (in the future) a handheld computer? What's wrong in offering more than just one product? How can it be wrong that the platform brakes borders and expands across all thinkable HW gizmos?

I think this could be a great product. I have long wanted a silent (mute) networked computer in my stereo rack, capable of playign mp3, divx, and so on. I don't really know much about this one, but this could be it! Especially if it has a CD/DVD player in it.

I don't really see how you can be so upset about Genesi widening their offerings?! To me it is the other way around; the more options the better!
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 68 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Feb-2003 16:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 66 (greenboy):
Well It wasn't denied by the german employees of Genesi that this

http://www.morphos-news.de/index.php?lg=de&nid=289&si=1

is not THE 'new Genesi Pegasos PPC Computer' which will be first time announced at the CeBIT. Their employees would easily nail this missassumption down in it's roots but instead doing this they suggested me to make my own thoughts and until yet they haven't explicitly denied this not to be the official Pegasos PPC as shown officially the first time at the worlds biggest computer show on earth. This is really a problem in my eyes because the JOE USERS may missassume the intent of this hardware and equalize it with a STB (the way it looks like). The only thing if you read the replies of the german employees carefully is harden more and more that THIS is exactly THE hardware.

The Picture shows a Device which looks like a CD-Player at least the case suggests that. No slots where you can plug CDROMS, DVD, Diskdrives in. Even the height of that shown Case assumes me that you can't put standard components inside it. From what I was told is that the whole layout is slightly differently which hardens the theory because the CPU can't be put into the slot. This leads to my missassumption that Genesi is only abusing the Amigamarket with their morphing system but the main intention are not Ex-Amigans it's probably the STB which none of us are interested in. Regardless of the fact that WE the Amiga community know that the Hardware can be used in standard Desktop Cases and used as full worthy computers. But they sell this hardware that way (as full worthy Amiga derivates) only in the AMIGA community, but not outside of it. The target customer outside probably never know about it's roots and use it as whatever else. This is hard for us programmers since programming software only counts and calculates if you get users back to the old Amiga (to the alternative) as more people come back to the Amiga-Derivate Desktop machine as more it values and calculates and makes sense for us developers to write software. Writing software for a community of 1000 remaining Amigans and 950 Softwarepirates (sorry only guessed value to make my point clear) doesn't value on the long run since the intent of Pegasos as Amiga-Derivate is only known to us. Buying such a Hardware and writing Software for it is just a waste of time. Thats my point.
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 69 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Feb-2003 16:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (takemehomegrandma):
Yeah only Amigashows with 50-100 visitors but not on real shows with 50000-100000 visitors.
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 70 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 16-Feb-2003 17:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (Anonymous):
It's really fun to see so much discussion about some custom computer case that
nobody is forced to use.
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 71 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Feb-2003 17:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 70 (David Scheibler):
There is a slightly difference between 'forcing to use' or 'forcing to belive'. You are right. I'm not forced to use it. But you force possible customers to belive it's a STB which is my initial point and which is the point that worries me. It's a difference if 1000 remaining Amiga Geeks belive it's a Desktop computer or 100000-500000 CeBIT visitors belive it's a STB.
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 72 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 16-Feb-2003 17:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 70 (David Scheibler):
Heh. It's hard to tell what is being discussed. Those with the short paragraphs don't seem to make a dent on those with the really really long paragraphs and the sentences that just go on and on and on until my wee small brain goes looking for an electric guitar and a loud amp and kicks out some jams ; }

Wooh, I'm glad I don't have to try understand what anybody says or writes. I'm justa going to rock on with my bad se'f ; }
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 73 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 16-Feb-2003 17:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (Anonymous):
Absolutely. And for what I can see from the current discussions is that the
Amiga users still have the drauma regarding small cases, resulting from the
fact that they know big tower cases only from Hollywood films. If I look at
osnews.com for example then I can see quite a few people that like this case.
I have nothing read there about a "STB" there. And I expect the same from CeBit
visitors.
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 74 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 16-Feb-2003 17:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (Anonymous):
> Well It wasn't denied by the german employees of Genesi that this is not
> THE 'new Genesi Pegasos PPC Computer' which will be first time announced at
> the CeBIT.

Well, it *is* kind of new! The "old" pegasos is still there, but this case (and sligtly modified mobo?) has not been sold before.

What is you feel that they should "deny"?
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 75 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 16-Feb-2003 17:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (Anonymous):
> Yeah only Amigashows with 50-100 visitors but not on real shows with
> 50000-100000 visitors.

Ahem, you think that CES in Las Vegas is a minor show? May I suggest that you do a quick search on the web and enlighten yourself!
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 76 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Feb-2003 17:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 73 (David Scheibler):
Why don't you trash that freaking STB case grab some cool BigTower/Desktop industry cases with Genesi TM logos on it and stuff the shit inside it as every freaking Hardware manufacturer does? At least I can enter the room and point with my fingers on it and say 'look that freaking shit is supposed to be a Computer because I stuffed it into this Genesi TM BigTower/Desktop ANSI/DIN normed freaking case ...'. Why does it have to look like a freaking STB? Without any Diskdrive Slots, CD-Rom slots and a height of aproximately 5 cm's that's NO ANSI/DIN normed industry case that suggests people to stuff more shit on demand into it. i mean people must be really really stupid to suggest this design to be a full size Computer that satisfies peoples needs. This freaking picture shows me and the rest of this fucking world a freaking STB. PowerON button on the left, Reset button on the right. Maybe a little display in the middle scrolling 'Genesi we suck cock TM' from right to left all the time. Jesus as more stupid comments I get from official Genesi people as more upset I get. And all this shit started by asking one freaking simple question. I bet pro-AmigaONE people are really amused and entertained by reading all this.
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 77 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 16-Feb-2003 17:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (Anonymous):
Anon, read comment #65. Rinse, repeat until greasy false assumptions fall away and your haid is sharp and shiny : }
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 78 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Feb-2003 17:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (greenboy):
I'm the author of 71 and 65. Sorry try harder next time.
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 79 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 16-Feb-2003 18:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 76 (Anonymous):
> Why don't you trash that freaking STB case grab some cool BigTower/Desktop
> industry cases with Genesi TM logos on it and stuff the shit inside it as
> every freaking Hardware manufacturer does?

> Why does it have to look like a freaking STB?

Because there might actually be some people out there that can find some use for a "STB-style" computer instead of a bigtower?

If you don't - well, buy a bigtower instead!
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 80 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 16-Feb-2003 18:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (greenboy):
:-)
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 81 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 16-Feb-2003 18:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (Anonymous):
:-D
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 82 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Feb-2003 18:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 79 (takemehomegrandma):
Yeah and that is the point. If someone wants it to be in a STB case then they should buy a STB looking case. The others can buy the case they like even a BigTower case if they wish. That's not my point. Everyone can use the computer and stuff it into whatever he/she likes - even in a pizzabox.

But it is absolutely WRONG to FIRST TIME ANNOUNCE the pegasos on the CeBIT using THIS case. Reasons are written above.
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 83 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by coldfire on 16-Feb-2003 18:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 82 (Anonymous):
The obvious assumption is they don't think it will compete as a desktop so they intend to push the STB more. Maybe not a bad idea. I don't see them calling it an Amiga officially so I don't care what case they put it in.

coldfire
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 84 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 16-Feb-2003 18:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 82 (Anonymous):
> But it is absolutely WRONG to FIRST TIME ANNOUNCE the pegasos on the CeBIT
> using THIS case. Reasons are written above.

As I wrote above, Genesi has shown the Pegasos in various cases on various shows, including one of the biggest shows in the world, the CES in Las Vegas. If you read the show reports from many different authors you will find that a great deal of people are very impressed with the cool and good looking cases the Pegasos has been presented in. History shows that Genesi is very good at presenting their products in all thinkable ways, ranging from microwave owens(!) to cool desktop cases with TFT screens, etc. I am sure that Genesi will present their products in many creative ways this time too (the STB-like case is one I think). And who knows, perhaps even in some kind of desktop/tower case as they have done in *every single show* this far?

Anyway, I wouldn't worry too much about this if I were you. I am sure they will do just fine!
:-)
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 85 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 16-Feb-2003 19:07 GMT
Well, there is certainly alot of emotion flowing here and we respect that. We will post a thorough response to all the questions and issues raised in this thread later this week. In the meanwhile, try to keep this in mind...

Today, Genesi stands on the verge of enormous opportunity. We can provide a completely integrated solution, including hardware, operating system, and a number of (bundled and unbundled) applications. We can innovate in ways that involve the complete integrated package, rather than being limited to new developments within each level by third parties (HP and Microsoft are not as self-reliant in this way). Genesi and our associates need to leverage this advantage fully. We are smaller, faster and will be necessarily more adventurous in our efforts.

The Plexuscom case is a case. It is still a Pegasos inside. We need to be different. You can still by a "tower" from Vesalia or KDH. You can put the board in a microwave oven or a coffeemaker as you said if you want...;-)

What is a computer? Is it an end in itself or a means to an end?

Respectfully,

R&B
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 86 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Feb-2003 19:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 85 (bbrv):
Good, I'll take your word as is.

But please, next time make clear announcements and not announcements where the possible customers 'your customers' needs to guess and make vague assumptions. We the cutomers help you in spreading the good word, the help, the reliability of your company and the good customer relationship. So please help us customers with clear answers. And please instruct your german employees to give out clear answers and no roumours that lead into anger and frustrations even bad sick jokes from them that makes us look like little kids playing in the childhood are not necessary. This won't help you and won't help us. As written earlier, we don't want your hardware as present or free gift. We are paying for it as every other normal customer does and therefore we expect correct answers. I know this is hard in this little niche community with the remaining 5 companies in hard competition. Please don't give informations out to wannabe Genesi employees just because they are friends to you, they only spread halfbacked informations that also leads into problems. You will understand that getting an answer from Genesi germany where I'm being told to 'make my own mind what Genesi is planning' will also lead into a lot of problems. This also doesn't help us and hurt you at the final end more than us. We can easily go to another hardware plattform with every day but you can't easily go to something else. It's all about giving and taking. We are customers, we pay and we like to get treatened as such not as puppets or narrowminded people. No one has the right.
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 87 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by tarbos on 16-Feb-2003 22:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 63 (Anonymous):
>No way to stuff normal PCI hardware inside it.

Pegasos was designed with risercard option in mind. You should know that.

>I am in the best position to carry around wrong 'news' in the whole community
>and make a lot of people become really pissed off.

A second Miky060 who announces the biggest flamewar ever? :-)
At least some sites like ppcnux.de have an open mind and unbiased interest in
the new Articia-based systems.

>I'm a developer of Software I had high respect from Genesi

And Genesi shows its respect to delevopers/Phoenix by offering the machine for
a special discounted price of 299USD now.

>While I was also hoping that your company is showing it as full worthy computer
>to the world so more than just the 1000 remaining possible amiga customers gonna buy it.

Already done that at CES.

>But showing the Pegasos computer in a STB like case (even if this is not the intention)

There were no attractive slimcases before that I know of so this could be a chance
to enter new markets while offering "normal" cases for the desktop/developer niche.

>will only reach the JOE USER who thinks 'wow a nice STB I gonna buy one place it on my TV

JOE USER is not the visitor Cebit aims for.

>These people probably never hear about the Amiga(-Spirit, Community) and probably never
>be able or interested to buy my Software and install it on such a System for global usage

Why not? Many people installed Neutrino on D-Box instead of the "OS" that came with it.
You must remember that it is a full Pegasos - the Genesi STB is a different
and cheaper HW.

>I don't see a point writing professional applications for a community of 1000 possible
>Ex-Amigans where probably 10-20 people are legally purchasing my software and the remaining
>20000 STB purchasers probably never know that this System can be used for professional Work.

You seem know everything about Genesi´s marketing plans? I think it´s just some artificial
imagination of yours which is far too narrow minded and one-sided to be discussed seriously.

>so please excuse me when I do some assumptions like this and spread missinformed thoughts into the community.

You excuse for being a troll? :-D
So this is only some beating on the bush in the hope to get some decent replies
finally?

>you are hurting your own company with this because there is no REAL CLEARIFYING informations.

If you care so much for Genesi why not get inside to push the new PPC platform with your energy?

>I got heavily pissed off about your german employees.

They have german employees?

>You and the remaining other 2-3 Pro-Amiga working companies are in the lucky position
>where we customers need to beg and act like puppets to get any informations

Hey, do that with Motorola and I bet you still won´t get info about 1.4GHz G4 :-)

>It's sad to see your company abuse the Amiga and the remaining stressed people for your commercialism

Ah, a real Opensource community-power guy.
But then you say you want to _sell_ your apps while at the same time you are against extension
of the market by using Pegasos´ small form factor advantage in every way possible? Strange...
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 88 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by tarbos on 16-Feb-2003 22:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (Anonymous):
>but the main intention are not Ex-Amigans it's probably the STB which none of us are interested in.

Not that´s Hyperion´s final aim according to a posting on Amiga.org :-)
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 89 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by tarbos on 16-Feb-2003 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 73 (David Scheibler):
>If I look at osnews.com for example then I can see quite a few people that like this case.

Another example is miniITX/cases, they seem to have a real cult followership. :)
People are tired of bulky server-like cases. I like smart solutions.
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 90 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Feb-2003 23:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 63 (Anonymous):
> Why did your company create a STB-like [...] case. The customers and people who see this kind of devices will assume it's a STB

What kind of logic is that ?! If it's a small case, it's a small computer. There are a lot of small computers these days. Shuttle and VIA (with ITX), to name but two. Visit ebay, these small things sell like fresh cookies.
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 91 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 17-Feb-2003 06:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 85 (bbrv):
It's like picking up ripe fruits, while the giant is (still) asleep.

Well, doing anything else would be stupid.

(at least it is interesting to see what could have been possibile also for the AmigaOS machines, if only some would have taken their heads out out of their * "a little bit" earlier... the curse of the name perhaps is that the name holding companies put too much value on it and waited for some huge offer to come, offer that never came)
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 92 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 17-Feb-2003 06:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 73 (David Scheibler):
btw. Is the case smaller than A3000D case?
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 93 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 17-Feb-2003 06:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 86 (Anonymous):
Just a "quick" note and we are out the door...

If our strategic vision is compelling and our execution excellent, we will increasingly attract skilled developers (like you). What Ralph, Frank and the core MorphOS Development Team have accomplished to date is exceptional, but now we need to establish a professional development and management system for MorphOS, formally retain the services of all key MorphOS developers, and recruit new talent to the project. We have struck on the Phoenix association to develop a third-party vehicle to do this too. It is not much more than a concept today, but we are starting to see ideas solidify on the mailing lists and there is a good deal of potential there. We need to be somewhat selective in insuring that these next boards go to people that will advance in communion with our effort. Hence, our new pricing offer through Phoenix for $299/299 Euro (understanding the fluctuations?if it becomes a big difference we will adjust).

Our targeted resource/sales markets from the near to medium term are:

1. Amiga/MorphOS
2. DTV STB and Pegasos STB
3. LinuxPPC and OtherPPC

We will continue to promote to the Amiga/MorphOS market, as we have. Our underlying focus will be: broadening and stabilizing MorphOS, attracting applications and drivers (ports/original programs), and establishing a ?Pegasos? toolkit. At the same time, the "Pegasos Network" is working (ex. www.pegasos-XXX.com) and our online sales support and information site at www.genesi-support.com will continue to improve. If we are lucky we will awaken and attract the slumbering ex-Commodore consumer market, but that will take some time and we are not quite ready for mass-market attention. The sites will be there and ready. Until we are ready for ?prime time? we will not promote the sites as much as we could. Plus, we will standardize the Pegasos distribution network over the next few months taking a semi-franchise approach. When we are ready, everything will be in place. (You might also want to check out www.morphzone.org)

On the hardware side we start where we are: the Pegasos. We have discussed the features: upgradeable (G3, G4, Dual, etc.), scalable (stackable boards), modifiable (smaller ? eclipsis, subsets/modular ? Psylent/STB), and open, as in Open Firmware (facilitates scheme for peripheral association/development IAW the IE1275 standard). We have developed a solid plan and feature set for each Pegasos envisioned and the corresponding software bundles. The management review actually begins today in Paris. The bplan guys arrive today as well as others.

It was the Pegasos that convinced our largest customer to go ahead with the DTV STB project. It is worth hundreds of thousands of Euros to us and it is what IS creating the opportunity to do everything else. It is still based on MorphOS and a PPC, so our Developers will be insured a stable business partner and an increasing stable environment for development and the future. In this case the potential is enormous and the development contract itself produces the profit equivalent of more than the sale of 1000 Pegasos mainboards per month. Can you understand the benefit this brings to all efforts?

The Pegasos STB is just a Pegasos (and something else again), but it is focused on another market. It actually aims more at breaking down the digital ?Berlin Wall? between countries in Europe and North America and countries everywhere else that are not so affluent (Mainland China, India, Latin America, Africa, etc.). We could sell this product as a "computer" that uses the television in the home already as a monitor (like computers of the past we have known). From the hardware side, it is a relatively simple development for us. A CD drive and a hard disc would be optional. There would be keyboard and remote control options (a users existing keyboard or mouse could be used as the Pegasos is already compliant with open firmware standard IEEE1275). Of course, this would create an interesting market for memory sticks (see www.plexuscom.com). There are hundreds of applications already running on the Pegasos, including many games and all in many languages (thanks to the ability to run Amiga applications).

Our thought is that PCs do not have the same penetration in these areas as in Western countries for years to come simply because of their cost. With volume we'll be able to undercut them without sacrificing functionality or speed. We think the potential could be running into millions of units. BTW, last year STBs of video games sold nearly 30 million units (PlayStation2, Xbox, and GameCube). We are not at that level yet, but we could be and we can offer more applications than games (and no special attachment for the Internet either).

About Linux and the other targets..

Linux people usually want something great for nothing, but in the PPC market if we can get a design win over the competition the next price point is a Mac. As more professionals and desktop consumers switch to Linux, the future of commercial software on Linux is very bright and so is our hardware. Functionality will become precedent over cost in this market. We need a bootable bundled distro and Mac-on-Linux. Linux will be a major force in the future. Today, it is still difficult to install software, drivers, set up firewalls, etc., but because of the generous licensing environment and the massive corporate support Linux is gaining (IBM, HP, etc.) as well as government mandates and funding in many countries, it is set to become the "next big thing.? We need to be part of that trend.

Any PPC OS that is reasonable to port with external resources is interesting to us. We have a Go/NoGo decision matrix (that gets more tuned as we advance). Again, we are looking for resources and developer talent. For example, while Linux gets the glory, BSDs are running some of the biggest sites. The OpenBSD port is being undertaken now (we got the first screenshot last week). Further, there is an increasing amount of interesting open source projects we could find a way to adapt to our use.

Finally, we are interested in restoring the Demo Scene to the Pegasos. The traditional and overt message in a demo was technical skill. The visual effects pushed the supposed limits of the platform?s capability and graphics were skillfully executed. Good demos are the marriage of advanced technical, creative and artistic abilities. For the future, we need a new generation of ?Sceners? to be pulling the most from the platform and the OS. This can generate plenty of positive attention. Besides the nVidia butterfly lady has the wrong color wings! This is why we decided to sponsor Equinoxe (and maybe BreakPoint if we can sort something out this week).

All these ?other things? all ultimately bring us back to our key advantage: a completely integrated solution, including hardware, operating system, and applications. The new Management Team is working hard to turn this vision into a reality. They will be presenting the first plans this week. While the sale of the Pegasos and MorphOS alone could never sustain the Company we are building, it may one day in the future. We use the Pegasos today to begin our move to the future, while insuring the development and growth of the MorphOS.

Hope you appreciate how early we got up to write this!

We will be very busy this week ? not too many more posts or emails will be answered.

Best regards,

R&B
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 94 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Dave on 17-Feb-2003 07:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 93 (bbrv):
Good luck this week to BBRV. This sort of plan has been sorely missed in the past, and we can hope that such diligence will pay off for everyone in the community as well!
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 95 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Trizt on 17-Feb-2003 11:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (bbrv):
What about the replacing the none-April boards?
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 96 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 17-Feb-2003 12:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 93 (bbrv):
What I would like to know is when there will be a revision to the pegasos mobo that has at least agpx4 (preferably x8) because at the moment when buying a pegasos aimed at the graphics/video/multimedia market (was it the pegashush?)
The agpx2 will create a bottleneck when moving large amounts of heavy graphical data on the bus. Having 1,2,4 or 10 g4's on the board wont solve this problem.

As an alternate newcomer to ppc desktop market the pegasos is fine, but trying to penetrate the high-end graphics workstation market with for instance agpx2 is ridiculous.

I have from the start of the pegasos project been interested of one but will definitely not buy one untill certain things on the board start to meet current standards and needs of the video/multimedia market. At the moment a pegasos is also overpriced considering it's capabilities. Having a fast os will not solve everything.

As a geek and hobbyist machine the pegasos seems more than fine with it's pricing, but as a professional workhorse it has yet to meet needs.
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 97 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by coldfire on 17-Feb-2003 12:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 85 (bbrv):
>What is a computer? Is it an end in itself or a means to an end?

I think this is the crux of the matter. To most "amigans" I think the Amiga is the end in itself. Why else would they stay with an orphaned computer for 10 years? I loved the experience of using it...the "feel" is unique and I can't capture it on any other OS. I'm learning to like linux but frankly....if I could have an Amiga with half the speed of a modern 2ghz peecee I'd jump at the chance. Even now on 1ghz plus windoze boxes I find myself cursing and saying "damn I wish I was on my amiga". There is something I can't define...can't put into words...about using an Amiga. The only ppl who understand are other amigans. I often talk with friends from the old amiga user group around here and it never fails to come around to "damn I miss the amiga".

sounds kind of silly even to me...but there it is.

It's about the computer.

coldfire
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 98 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 17-Feb-2003 13:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Trizt):
"Nokia never spoke about Amiga Inc"

Yes they did. Insisting otherwise is just plain stupid.
I posted links several times all over the amiga related web.


(For those who poll the IP address. I do not represent Nokia here, all I post on my "priest" nick are my personal opinnions etc...)
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 99 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Andy on 17-Feb-2003 13:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 93 (bbrv):
"We could sell this product as a "computer" that uses the television in the home already as a monitor (like computers of the past we have known)"

It seems to me that you still belive that early 80-s microcomputer *boom* may happen in today DirectX-ed world... silly you!

1. Pegasos for STB??? stupid idea - The VIA-EDEN (~$110) alredy there and made no profit!
2. TVsets today cost ~$200 and LG 15' ~$120; - stupid idea to buy TVset to use it as computer monitor; Using family TVset other than for DivX viewing also an idiot's idea - 800x600 desktop looks like Hiroshima after air strike;
3. LinuxPPC rather small market and will go down as soon as cheap and powerfull x86 boxes appear by the end of this year or next 2..3 years;


so I would recommend you get back to your workbenches and make something usefull for example AMD(x86-64)/VIA based version of MorphOS;
Plexuscom and Genesi to Cooperate on PegasosPPC for CeBit Release : Comment 100 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by zimmy on 17-Feb-2003 17:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 86 (Anonymous):
all this from someone who can't even bring himself/herself/itself to post under his real name.....

what bullshit
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