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[News] AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothingANN.lu
Posted on 26-Feb-2003 15:18 GMT by Nico Barbat (editor-in-chief AMIGAplus)194 comments
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Pegasos is here - albeit in low quantities. The new issue 02/2003 (#133) of AMIGAplus reports about Pegasos and other topics: Content: Review of Pegasos & MorphOS, Review of indivision, Review of Subway, Review of Crossfire II, Report about Quake II, Interview with Genesi S.a.r.l., Interview with the Breakpoint-organizers, Review of SuperView 5 1.0, Review of Digital Almanac III 5.0, Coding-workshop: SDL, part 2, Amiga Status Report and much more

AMIGAplus (68 pages, 4c, German) is available via subscription, via individual order or through the known Amiga dealer channels for 5,- Euro.

Looking forward: Upcoming AMIGAplus #134 includes the following reports: Reviews of TKR LAM200E, IBrowse 2.3, VHI Studio 6 and Birdie Shoot, Compatibility report of MorphOS, Part 1 of the Draco video workshop and much more.

Contact: http://www.amigaplus.com

AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 51 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 27-Feb-2003 19:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (Frodon):
Sorry, I'm just not to logical you know... ;b
But this story of running AmigaOS undongled on pegasos runs on and on, way before they 'offered' (cough, cough) Hyperion a pegasos. and despite this offer being done so much time ago just now(it seems) they've made it through official channels... odd isn't it!?
Of course you could find that gal or guy can report to a company, but as said before, this talks as been on and on...
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 52 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 27-Feb-2003 19:47 GMT
circumventing a copy protection dongle is against the DMCA, isn't it?PPC hardware is the item of focus. Being able to run different OS's on it is certainly a worthy goal, as a matter of reaching as much of the PPC market as possible.But I gotta wonder, isn't PPC hardware in the computer industry like Beta machines are in the video industry?
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 53 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Chrsistophe Decanini on 27-Feb-2003 19:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (3seas):
"But I gotta wonder, isn't PPC hardware in the computer industry like Beta machines are in the video industry?"

No.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 54 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel Miller on 27-Feb-2003 19:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (bbrv):
> Hi z5, Ben Herman works as a legal clerk. Hyperion does not have an office.
> He has a "day job." Maybe someone could email us a mobile number? We would
> be happy to call.

No s^*t! Man, Hyperion has really been keeping up the appearance of a brick and mortar software house! I must say I am surprised to hear this.

I have nothing against this way of doing a business, and would probably not even comment, except didn't Ben Hermans deride MorphOS as the work of "hobbyists?" How does that cheap shot square with this revelation?
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 55 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by ONE on 27-Feb-2003 20:12 GMT
Sticking AOS4 to just one board is just suicide.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 56 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Feb-2003 20:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (ONE):
@dreamworldmuppet

What like MorphOS and Pegasos you mean? Do you really believe that MorphOS
is going to come out for the Mac before all Pegasos 1s have been sold? Or for
the Blizzard and Cybervision boards?
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 57 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 27-Feb-2003 20:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (bbrv):
> P.S. As we have said many times, eventually if there is an OS4 it WILL one day run perfectly on the Pegasos without a dongle. BUT, we won't do that and will not need to support the effort, one of you smart gals or guys will sort this out. Of course, you could start discussing this on <PhrojectOS@phinixi.com>...;-)

*sigh* You had to attach that, didnt you? You know its illegal and yet encourage it.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 58 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 27-Feb-2003 20:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (bbrv):
> Why not do it in an organized fashion? Why not do it legally? We have offered Hyperion a Pegasos. The Developers working on OS4 are good people. What is the big deal?
> The Pegasos springs from Amiga Community roots much more true than the alternative hardware being offered.
> How can anyone take that badly?

Yeah, why anyone takes laws serious is beyond me. *shakes head*
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 59 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 27-Feb-2003 20:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (bbrv):
> Hi z5, Ben Herman works as a legal clerk. Hyperion does not have an office. He has a "day job." Maybe someone could email us a mobile number? We would be happy to call. We have offered to meet him here in Paris at our offices. We will even pay for his train ticket! Should we stand on our heads too?

You could visit him yourself (eg you waste one day instead of him) - but i wonder why? Didnt you already disagree on the terms that have been cooperatively set up for any partner?
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 60 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 27-Feb-2003 20:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Frodon):
> Sorry but as far as I know anyone can buy an OS 4 licence for the Pegasos, a reseller or any other company. I think that what bbrv meant.

LOL. Umm .. well, sure.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 61 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Keith Blakemore-Noble on 27-Feb-2003 20:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (pixie):
" AmigaOS has to have a dongle,"

Oh really?

So care to explain exactly where this dongle is to be connected on "Classic" PPC Amigas when AOS4 is released for them?

What's that? there is no dongle for those?

Q.E.D.

AOS4 does not *REQUIRE* a dongle. the versiopn for the LinuxOne, sorry, AmigaOne requires a dongle because both parties chose to add one to lock people to that hardware, but the OS itself has no intrinsic requirement for a dongle, and if a contract were to be negotiated to allow a party to port AOS4 to a different machine and not to require a dongle, then there woudl be no dongle on that machine.

Simple, really, when you *think* about it...
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 62 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Alkemyst on 27-Feb-2003 20:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Frodon):
LOL

Cut your crap.

No way does gals or guys stand for a firm/company.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 63 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 27-Feb-2003 20:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Frodon):
> Simply if the company who applied for an OS 4 licence and Hyperion did have negociated between them to not use a dongle for the Pegasos port of AmigaOS 4. Negociations are always part of business.

The terms of a license are set up, they include a dongle. bb knows this but "promises" one without a dongle, even offers the use of their new developer mailing list. Its probably not clear enough in a legal sense but ...
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 64 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Marcus Sundman on 27-Feb-2003 21:19 GMT
If AOS4 will be out then it _will_ run on some PPC computer (other than CVPPC/BPPC) without a dongle. If not legally then illegally, because there will be people that want to run it on their computer without a dongle, and there will be people who would like the challenge to crack the protection code (if there will be such). I simply can't believe otherwise. I have yet to see a product using a protection that can't be cracked.

To take advantage of any illegal activities would be wrong (if not by law then at least ethically, imho), but simply stating that illegal activities are bound to happen isn't, so get off Bill's back!
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 65 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 27-Feb-2003 21:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (Anonymous):
I guess I don't have it then:)
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 66 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 27-Feb-2003 21:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Marcus Sundman):
>To take advantage of any illegal activities would be wrong (if not by law
>then at least ethically, imho), but simply stating that illegal
>activities are bound to happen isn't, so get off Bill's back!

Absolutely right. Bill was not encouraging it - he was just stating a fact.

When OS4 is released, it will run on Pegasos, sooner or later. It will also run on non-dongled Teron boards. Whatever protection Hyperion put in there, will be cracked eventually. And the more sophisticated the protection, the more the crackers will see it as a challenge to beat it.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 67 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 27-Feb-2003 22:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Chrsistophe Decanini):
care to elaborate?
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 68 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 27-Feb-2003 22:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (Daniel Miller):
Hyperion has its administrative seat in Belgium for two reasons:

1) tax reasons. SME's only pay 25% of taxes (and soon less) in Belgium which is much less than in Germany.

2) I simply know Belgian law far better than German law.

We do have an office there but obviously I did not relocate any programmers to Belgium as there is no added value to be derived from that.

As for me being a legal "clerk", this story has been running for quite some time now in MorphOS circles and it is only testament to the ignorance of certain people.

I'm not a legal clerk and this is obviously meant to be derogatory but let me assure you that the legal clerks who work for the judges at the European Court of Justice or the European Court of Human Rights not only earn far more than most "real" lawyers ever will but are also held in the highest esteem by anybody with a legal background.

It just goes to show that former army captains without any academic background should hire competent people lest they make a fool of themselves in public once again.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 69 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 27-Feb-2003 23:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 61 (Keith Blakemore-Noble):
> AOS4 does not *REQUIRE* a dongle. the versiopn for the LinuxOne,
> sorry, AmigaOne requires a dongle because both parties chose to add
> one to lock people to that hardware, but the OS itself has no intrinsic
> requirement for a dongle, and if a contract were to be negotiated to
> allow a party to port AOS4 to a different machine and not to require a
> dongle, then there woudl be no dongle on that machine.


You seem to live in a dreamworld based interely on 'ifs'... I won't discuss based on that.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 70 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by ONE on 27-Feb-2003 23:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 66 (Lando):
> the more the crackers will see it as a challenge to beat it.

I really hope someone cracks the dongle bollox on the so called AmigaONE so i can purchase a cheap TeronPX board for a few hundren dollars cheaper than exploit-users-eyetech and then purchase OS4 (if they wont sell it on its own then i will download it).
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 71 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Alex on 28-Feb-2003 00:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 70 (ONE):
@ONE

<sigh> This is exactly the sort of childish rubbish that has been going on too long..

You know what you're proposing to do is illegal, you know that what you're proposing to do will hurt the small companies struggling in a tiny market. But you want things your way and that's it, there's not a thought there about what these actions will do to underpin a viable future for Amiga based software (OS or application).

Guess what, like it or not we live and operate in the real world. Perhaps the options available for a particular product don't suit you, or are more than you feel like paying. But it's childish nonsense to belive that gives you the right to steal that product, nothing you can say justifies stealing something if the terms of sale don't meet your particular circumstances.

Grow up.

Alex.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 72 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Feb-2003 00:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (bbrv):
>Maybe someone could email us a mobile number?

Are you serious or have you lost your mind? Cell phone numbers are not to be given away, much less to be asked on a public forum. If he wanted you to have his number he would have given it to you already. Can you stop acting like a spoiled child and start acting like a CEO of a firm?
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 73 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Feb-2003 00:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
>May I take this as a call to piracy?

Yet again. He alrady made a similar statement months ago
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 74 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Feb-2003 00:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Frodon):
>Where? Can you provide a link to this post? Was it really BBRV or someone
>else using his nickname?

It was definitely him and there was a huge uproar, it happened here on ANN less than a year ago (6 months maybe?)
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 75 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Feb-2003 00:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Frodon):
>That's why BBRV may have meant that there will be a company which will do it.

No, read well, he said "ONE OF YOU GUYS OR GALS" he's not talking of companies
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 76 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Feb-2003 00:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Frodon):
>So don't use it as fact. Sorry in my mind a gal or a guy can be a CEO of
>a company so...

Why not say so then? Buck cannot spell company? Or maybe you are blind?
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 77 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 28-Feb-2003 01:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (3seas):
Elaborate first on your beta stuff.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 78 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 28-Feb-2003 02:01 GMT
People are still debating on the cracked OS4 that could run on the Pegasos.
Does it make any sense when the 2 bios are different and most of the Pegasos(2) that will sell will have a different northbridge ?
It is the same as saying that someone will crack OS4 to run it on Macintosh.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 79 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel Miller on 28-Feb-2003 02:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Ben wrote:

> We do have an office there but obviously I did not relocate any programmers to > Belgium as there is no added value to be derived from that.

Okay. I feel like we are replaying the Amiga Inc. "don't tell anybody we don't have an office, phones, employees" game. If you have a day job elsewhere, and your programmers are in Germany, then I don't know who is in this office. But that is your affair.

> [stuff clipped] I'm not a legal clerk and this is obviously meant to be
> derogatory [stuff clipped]

Bill (and surely not Raquel) is not the kind of person who looks down on people because they have a humble profession, and I think you are wrong about that.

> It just goes to show that former army captains without any academic background > should hire competent people lest they make a fool of themselves in public
> once again.

Listen, West Point is extremely prestigious academic institution that turns out titans of industry, great military leaders, statesmen, US Presidents, you name it. A West Pointer engineered the Panama Canal for example. I am not saying that Bill Buck is in this league, but AFAIK his academic background is excellent. As for Army Captains... how do I say this? You are praising him, but I guess you don't realize it. I find that sometimes Europeans have a distorted stereotype of military persons as warmongers, but in fact many have incredibly peaceful natures. They are instruments of national policy, not authors of it. There is no finer thing to be than an American soldier.

I guess the public decides who makes a fool of him or herself in public. I'll grant you that BBRV makes brash, confrontational statements that in the more extreme cases are counter-productive.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 80 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by tarbos on 28-Feb-2003 02:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 79 (Daniel Miller):
>There is no finer thing to be than an American soldier.

*LOL* :ยด-D
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 81 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Dan Andersson on 28-Feb-2003 03:20 GMT
To someone @ Hyperion:

Who took the time to license AmigaOS 4.0 for the old cyberstormPPC and BlizzardPPC hardware?
Since Pegasos 1 soon will be a discontinued PPC hardware aswell, could you guys not do the same in (my eyes) exception for this hardware?

Dan Andersson

Waiting for the Amiga OS 4.0 for Pegasos enabler kit.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 82 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 28-Feb-2003 03:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 79 (Daniel Miller):
Wich one should I prefer: confrontation with an ex soldier or being lied by a lawyer ;)
I don't really care of anyone's job. My opinions on people are based on their accomplishments :)
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 83 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 28-Feb-2003 04:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (Christophe Decanini):
In other words your answer is "no."
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 84 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by cheesegrate on 28-Feb-2003 05:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 79 (Daniel Miller):
>>There is no finer thing to be than an American soldier.

LOL, well those fine soldiers seem to be happy following orders to torture muslims in camp x-ray!!!!!!!!!!

Daniel your patriotism, while misplaced blinds you to the real world. btw the french are anti-war remember???

adz
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 85 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 28-Feb-2003 06:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (3seas):
3seas wrote:

> In other words your answer is "no."

He asked you to elaborate on beta, which you didn't do, so it's hardly reasonable for you to be putting words in his mouth.

Anyway, this could be said: PowerPC is different from Beta (video format) in that PPC is still viable in certain markets today, whereas AFAIK Beta has pretty much been replaced even in niches where its high quality kept it going longer than it lasted in the general consumer market.

The question of whether PowerPC is viable in desktop computer systems is an open one, but as long as some companies are making these systems and some consumers are buying them, the answer has to be that people voting with their cash indicates that these computers are still viable. (You could respond that everyone making and buying PPC desktop systems is a fool, but that's essentially irrelevant since that loop continues regardless of your opinion.)

-- gary_c
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 86 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 28-Feb-2003 06:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 84 (cheesegrate):
Good Morning,

Let this be the end of the story for now. As you can see there is absolutely no interest from the Developers of OS4 to work with us. They are not interested in the Pegasos and they have no interest in cooperating with us. The private emails sent to Ben remain unanswered. We have been provided no means to reach Hyperion and they have no office to call on. As far as we are concerned, they have rejected our assistance again. Please no longer accuse Genesi of being insincere about working with those developing OS4. We have tried to do so.

OS4, if it is ever finished and delivered to the market with a dongle, will be hacked. We are not encouraging this. It is simply a fact. The dongle strategy is based on ignorance. To the contrary, we have suggested a proper legal approach. Today, here, everyone has testimony to the result of this effort. This is not a publicity stunt. These are facts. Read the thread again in case you missed something. Eventually, possibly the only thing that will save the OS4 development will be to make it open source. Think about it.

We know where you were employed Ben -- now everyone else does too. Our lawyers in Paris confirmed this just after you visited us in Paris last year. In English and in American convention, you are a legal clerk. You can call it whatever you want. What does your business card say? You are not a lawyer as you style yourself to be. Do not mistake us, your job is important and as we have told you privately in our last email exchanges in March and April 2002 and publicly, you are an intelligent young man. We hope your current work goes well. The world needs a way to solve big problems in a moral and legal way and you are part of that. Thanks!

As for my education, you can read about it here: www.usma.edu. I was learning how to program with batch cards and Fortran when you were in kindergarten. My Engineering degree and my certification as a practicing engineer makes my education satisfactory by most standards. While there, I spent one summer on a Crossroads Africa Program teaching Physics to high school students and helping to build a school in northwestern Kenya. Another summer I spent learning how to jump out of airplanes, serving in the 82d Airborne Division and participating in an exchange program with Eloy Alfaro, the Military Academy of Ecuador. During the academic year after class, I played American Football, rugby, soccer, team handball, boxed, learned to scuba dive, etc. Certainly, if you want to discuss other things we can. Why don't we start with Aristotle's summary of moral virtues. Concerning ambition where would you sit between the extremes of the vice of deficiency and the vice of excess?

About my military background...I actually resigned my commission as a Major (Commandant for the French). That is one grade above Captain. Here is something I posted recently to GameTeam@phinixi.com just to make sure you understand my mentality...

-----------

On this list we really have people from all over the world. This is very important to us. The world is a great place, but it needs a little help. Our games should have this in mind. We want thoughtful skill oriented games that require online cooperation with people from "other" places. Maybe, one day we will have a language toggle. Ever seen a United Nations meeting with every Diplomat wearing an earphone so he can hear everything in his native language and speak in his own? Imagine what a little communication and a common purpose might enable...;-) OK, that is the future...

In the meanwhile, we want everything else too -- BUT -- we will definitely want a "gore" switch. Having played a few sports in my life and been a real "Airborne Ranger" I think there is too much illusion in video games. Pain hurts. Heroic effort expended in a seconds requires years of disciplined physical and mental training. The human insensitivities promoted in "death by seconds" is not something that is going to make things better. There are too many kids today walking into schools with guns and using them. Raquel and I do not want to be part of that. Sorry, but as much as we appreciate the effort of guys like James Daniels, Payback needs a new theme. The "good guys" and the "bad guys" need to be switched in our opinion. If you put "junk" into a brain, eventually that is all you get out of it. Games are a good place to start a better trend.

-----------

One last note about this subject for our European friends -- we understand the reluctance to support any kind of military action given Europe's last 200 years. However, as we have said before: as long as there are bad guys that do bad things, there have to be good guys that can do bad things better...;-)

It is really to bad for the OS4 Development that we cannot work together. The DTV STB we are developing is a simple STB that receives digital television signals. You people in the UK know the system. Imagine a Free-to-View SetPal STB with a PPC and MorphOS. It will have the 250MHz 403 (the embedded version of the 603 -- remember the Blizzard?). INEXPENSIVE is the driver in the first version. The RAM is still a question of cost, but the games will have at least 16MB for themselves. The controller is one that accepts remote control inputs (so anything that can do that using IR) and the resolutions are standard PAL or quarter PAL (Amiga high rest and low res). We want to be able to have a game running in two thirds of the screen while the TV is still running in the background. That is what we start with. We are not trying to be an PS2 or XBOX here...not yet...;-)

Anyway, that is the end of the Pegasos OS4 effort for now. Perhaps, you have something more to say Ben? Why don't you answer the email? Or, maybe, you should just stick to Quake and continue in your fantasies of real life.

As for anyone else that is interested in being involved in the efforts of Genesi, please continue to send us emails. Forgive us if we do not answer you right away. Thank you for your interest and support.

Sincerely,

Raquel and Bill (or maybe I should sign Wolf im Schafspelz...;-) )
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 87 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by CyberZorro on 28-Feb-2003 07:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
You are so pathetic. Why riding personal attacks to a man that wants to help you out of your hopeless situation? And even if you work for the European Council you are still a clerk as you work for them and get your monthly salary from them.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 88 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Feb-2003 07:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 86 (bbrv):
proper legal approach is to go through Amiga.Inc. you did not.

So shut your stupid mouth.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 89 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Feb-2003 07:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 86 (bbrv):
"possibly the only thing that will save the OS4 development will be to make it open source"

How about you making MOS Opensource first.



I have never come across such a stupid company in my life.

You even sound more stupid than Microsoft.

The fact is your peg has failed in sales cos pplmore ppl wanted to run AmigaOs4 on it than MOS but you screwed your self & just cant admit it.

So you call for all ways of getting Aos4 on your Peg with out your involment.

Now you call Aos4 to go open-S so that someone can port it to your Peg.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 90 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel Allsopp on 28-Feb-2003 07:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 79 (Daniel Miller):
>There is no finer thing to be than an American soldier.

ROFL, haha, you've got to laugh at this crap!

For a start, they need to be trained to fire on the ENEMY and not their ALLIES in future conflicts...

That's enought though cause I can't be arsed with a political argument ;-)
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 91 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 28-Feb-2003 08:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 89 (Anonymous):
@anon

Genesi has some done deals - this is not speculating - of huge volume. These assure cash flow to finance internal development and management payrolls, do some broad spectrum seeding, pay for specific apps and subsystems, pay office and tradeshow and travel overhead for the midterm, as well as working on other projects with partners and subcontractors such as http://www.plexuscom.com/ .

This allows Genesi to proceed in the embedded/services direction as well as on the desktop. MorphOS is the operating system specified, which means software written for it on said device (or any other device) can run on MorphOS desktops as well (though for the desktop as compared to a small footprint device, the desktop code might be considered a superset).

Genesi can sustain and build themselves as a company while driving efforts such as GameTeam@phinixi.com - which is certainly an opportunity for any proven commercial games developers or Aminet hopefuls. And Genesi is pretty good at deciding what part of their approach to business and development is "open".

They seem to have good sense in working with others, accepting feedback and ideas, taking criticism and using it to improve and build upon. The fact that they are willing to talk publicly about much of what others would hide behind NDA and SDA makes them more open to criticism, and it is not hard to spot faults and unfinished thoughts. But ultimately it also is helping them build WITH a community instead of just standing on the back of one.

And I think Genesi if nothing else could make some T-shirt shops happy; they seem to be giving away about three times as many shirts as others in the local 'hood have sold but not delivered ; }
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 92 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 28-Feb-2003 08:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 89 (Anonymous):
Hello Alkemyst,

> So you call for all ways of getting Aos4 on your Peg with out your involment.

It almost sounds as if you think it's somehow the responsibility of a hardware company with an OS of their own to "be involved" in making ANOTHER OS, that can be seen as "competing", run on their hardware?

If a software company wants their OS to run on a piece of hardware, then the software company makes it so, or a third party, the "guys and gals" that some apparently confused people interpreted as a "call to piracy" or something equally absurd - although keep in mind that unless the bundling/dongling/licencing requirement idiocy (the sad "Amiga hardware market" invention) is reconsidered, then there CAN NOT BE a legal port and paying customers.

I don't know how "open" the necessary documentation is in the Pegasos example, but if Genesi wants to sell boards - which they naturally do - they can't make it a "MorphOS only" board, which they haven't. Linux and Open Firmware aren't trade secrets.

We've seen Buck's publicity stunt with the publicly offered Pegasos boards to Hyperion. We've seen Hermans' publicity stunt about "we 'ordered' a board and didn't get one". (Don't take this the wrong way, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with PR, but some people sometimes seem to apply no skepticism whatsoever when reading it or conversely see it all as "evil"...)
All that doesn't matter unless AmigaOS is liberated from compulsory hardware bundling/dongling/licensing. Genesi (or any other hardware company, especially those who have OSes of their own like Genesi and Apple, this currently restricted little sad excuse for a "market" is saturated by the Eyetech monopoly on Teron boards for AmigaOS) won't license AmigaOS to be bundled with dongled hardware. End of story. AmigaOS must *also* be available as separately sold copies for user installation on hardware regardless of who sells the hardware.

You want to be allowed to *BUY* AmigaOS without irrelevant strings attached to any particular hardware dealer? You want AmigaOS to have at least a bit more than a snowball's chance in hell to survive commercially? You know the drill: http://www.petitiononline.com/amigaos
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 93 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Feb-2003 08:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 91 (greenboy):
I dont give a damn what deals they have Done nothing that offer does anything for amiga or amiga owners.

asking for SW for the STB is no good to me with AmigaOs here is it.
If the STB SW will run on top of my amiga with AmigaOS then it may be of some use but it will not.

Just as most amiga ppl dont care for Amiga-DE untill it can run on amigaOS.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 94 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 28-Feb-2003 08:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 92 (Seehund):
Seehund,

I admire your persistence and good common sense : }
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 95 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Alkemyst on 28-Feb-2003 08:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 92 (Seehund):
Dont use that post as an excuse for your crap petiton.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 96 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Alkemyst on 28-Feb-2003 08:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 92 (Seehund):
When MOS non /Beta runs on more than Hardware by the Phase5 & Genesi crew then
I will give you some credit.

Untill then Genesi is just as bad as amiga.inc.

Genesi are doing exactly what amiga.inc are doing but with out stateting so.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 97 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 28-Feb-2003 08:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 93 (Anonymous):
@anon

Ah. You seem to have missed an important point. Perhaps if it is repeated you will see it: software written for whatever MorphOS-driven device will run on the desktop as well. Though the desktop versions would likely be expanded titles of that found on a device (depending on what it is of course).

Perhaps even more important is that the originators/owners of such software are making money, which allows them incentive to spend more time writing more software. Such an arrangement means developers that have day jobs doing something else entirely, or find themselves coding for non-Amiga APIs can get back to coding "Amiga-style".

Surely that is a good thing: developers making more of the kind of stuff Amigans might like, and doing it the Amiga way : }
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 98 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 28-Feb-2003 08:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 96 (Alkemyst):
"Genesi are doing exactly what amiga.inc are doing but with out stateting so."

No. Genesi's garage is muuuuuuuch bigger and doen't have a Bill Gates calendar hanging on every wall ; }
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 99 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Feb-2003 08:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 97 (greenboy):
I dont have MOS

So it no good to me.

& coding in amiga-style is no good to me if it will not run on AmigaOS.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 100 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 28-Feb-2003 09:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 99 (Anonymous):
>I dont have MOS
>So it no good to me.
>& coding in amiga-style is no good to me if it will not run on AmigaOS.

I don't have AmigaOS4.
So it is no good to me.
I will soon have MorphOS. So I will be able to run many of my hundreds of amiga titles. So it will be good to me : }
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