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[News] AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH?ANN.lu
Posted on 08-May-2003 13:14 GMT by Troels Ersking126 comments
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According to news at PPCNUX.DE, KDH Datentechnik have recieved 300% more orders on the AmigaOne than on Pegasos. Read the short news here.
Impressive as the sale will get another boost when OS4 is released.

Would have been nice to see some exact numbers but I guess only Eyetech, KDH and BBRV knows these.
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 101 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 09-May-2003 06:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 98 (DaveP):
DaveP wrote:

> No reason not to dream, but acknowledge it as a dream and stop dismissing
Linux out of ignorance for that is all it could be.
Linux has several mature and useful distributions covering many platforms
cards and even has industry support and industry applications on it as well as
a thriving developer community.
To think that a 600user community with an OS which is lower in power, flexibility, appeal, visual flair and has none of the fave widgets of the day on it that Linux distributions have is to live in a dream world.

That's all true, but it's also true that Linux has been in development for quite a while now, while MorphOS is fairly new. And at the end of the day, Linux is (just) Linux. That is, maybe MorphOS can provide something that Linux can't. I don't think it's a good idea to think about Linux as a rival, but just as a different choice. If MorphOS/Pegasos are going to succeed, they'll need to come up with some juicy morsels of some kind. Time will tell.

> Even the Linux "anti Intel, anti Apple" freaks who might go for a PPC board with Linux on it way outnumber those who could possibly be interested in MorphOS for more than 30 seconds.

I didn't read the post you're replying to, so I don't know if I'm agreeing with you or arguing against you here, but I'm not sure how much the comparison to Linux matters. First, MorphOS is just getting off the ground, despite the Amiga roots, so it's a little early to compare it to Linux, which is pretty mature. Second, if Genesi sells lots of Pegasoses to Linux users, all the better, as that'll help fund MorphOS development. Presumeably there's a rationale for MorphOS, which will become apparent as early-adapter sales fade and product-as-solution sales must take over. If no rationale emerges, it'll die.

>No, in the short to medium term where it counts, MorphOS has an incredibly long road to tread with no brand name recognition - at least as long as Linux and there is no demand for it

I imagine that's part of the reason why Genesi is promoting ports of other PPC OSs to the Pegasos, to try broaden the appeal. MorphOS itself must be interesting only to people already with links to the Amiga community, or to people heavily into odd, potentially nifty hardware.

( unlike a free Unix a like operating system without RMS' direct involement which we were crying out for ) nor does it have a large pre-installed user base. Because Linux ran on the majority of PCs out there ( even in text mode ) it was instantly accessable to academics and students and bored corporate employees ( ;-) ).

Which is why it's irrelevant to make comparisons with it. The MorphOS/Pegasos package has to have other selling points. The fact that it *can* run Linux is one, but not sufficient.

> The Pegasos Dongle for MorphOS is too high a price to pay for "MorphOS". This David and Goliath shit that some of you persist in forgetting the realities of is just a dream.

At this point in time, only the people closely following developments are buying the Pegasos to get MorphOS, if in fact any are, although people who've set up their machines already are saying MorphOS is better than they expected, and lots of fun. But there's a lot of refining to do before it's considered strong on its own merits, except for in embedded systems where it can be honed for that purpose and the user doesn't know or care about the OS (ie, Genesi's STB deal).

> MorphOS has even less market appeal than AmigaOS - yes - because it has no brand name recognition. Lots of people recognise the name Amiga outside of this muddy little pond - how many people recognise MorphOS? Despite some peoples attempts to destroy the Amiga brand name outside of the community to level the playing field....

Well, consider what the Amiga brand means these days: Retro-computer? A string of corporate failures? A mediocre content (no offense meant to anybody) provider for Microsoft devices? I'm not so sure the Amiga brand has much of a pull these days. Anyway, people are interested in capabilities, not corporate labels, which are often bought and sold with uneven results. Think of famous motorcycle, guitar and home electronics brands that were sold to new owners and what happened to product quality/image in the new incarnations. The brand may provide a tiny spark, but it is up to the product itself to either sell or not.

> When OS4 gets release incomers are going to say "why should I pick this MorphOS thing that just does the AmigaOS on PPC thing like OS4 does but without the brand name or these features x/y/z".

A lot depends on how the meme spreads, what the message is. Real newcomers are probably going to be nearly as clueless about "this OS4 thing" as "this MorphOS thing." In both cases a lot of PR is going to have to be done before any significant advances outside this market are made. Genesi is extremely active in getting motherboards out to developers, user groups, etc. Their name is becoming known beyond the Amiga community already. The hardware itself makes a very good impression to just about everybody who sees it (apart from the slow processor, anyway). MorphOS itself is more of an unknown to these people, of course, but it's just part of the package. Amiga, Inc. and its licensees will have to do the groundwork as well. Owning the brand name is not a magical solution to product acceptance.

> The main reason we see such political shenannigans going on ( and in the court now ) is because, no matter how many troll posts you start on ANN, is because
whilst Amiga Inc exists and the Amiga brand exists seperate of Genesi its a serious threat to takeup of MorphOS on the merits of its AmigaOS 3.x compatibility or look and feel inside and outside of the community.

Well, if Amiga, Inc. and AOS didn't exist, there could be more customers for Genesi, though in a thread I was just reading at amiga.org, people were saying if AOS went down they'd switch to Mac or Linux, mostly. But I think the rivalry with Amiga is less an issue for Genesi now than it once was. From reading earlier posts, it seems like, with products shipping and a broader range of developers showing interest, the bigger world is already more interesting for Genesi than any tug of war with Amiga for diehard fans.

> In order to stand up on its own MorphOS HAS to develop something extra before it gets taken seriously. Sure it might get a favourable review on OSNEWS or somewhere but it will be reviewed and forgotten by the masses.

Well, sure. MorphOS's A-box is for short-term application availability. The Q-box is for the "something extra." In the meantime, there are the other OSs coming to the Pegasos, for added developer interest, mindshare growth, and so on. This is where Genesi's role as a hardware developer gives them leverage.

-- gary_c
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 102 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 09-May-2003 07:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (gary_c):
Nope, I don't see anything I can disagree with apart from small matters of emphasis.

The truth is that MorphOS has a long road to tread. Very long. So has AmigaOS. AmigaOS has the edge of a brand name that is recognised - don't forget that most people don't really pay as much attention to you or I about the petty parochial "broken promises" that loom so large to us - and it is debateable what edge it has.

MorphOS is a niche product with a potential ( very small ) to become a small hobbyist alternative operating system and the potential ( medium ) to become something hidden away in a black consumer goods box for the mass market where the consumer doesn't know whats under the hood.

AmigaOS is a nich product with a potential ( very small ) to become a small hobbyist alternative operating system and the potential ( medium ) to become something hidden away .... etc.

If both can weather the thread wars ( which are still going on Bill! ) then they have one chance in a thousand ( maximum ) of hitting a small time success ( > 30,000 units ) less than one chance in a million of hitting medium time success ( > 500,000 units ) and less than one chance in a trillion of hitting the big time ( > 10,000,000 units ).

The only thing that bothers me about this scenario is the unrealistic expectations of the minority that if you come up with a super cool new toy that reminds you of the old halcyon days its going to be the same for large swathes of other users who will chuck their PCs and buy a Pegasos Dongle or chuck their install of Mac OS or Linux on Mac and install ( currently Jam Tomorrow ) MorphOS on Mac.

Amiga has a greater chance of success IF MorphOS does not cash in on the brand name by positioning itself as "Coke without the brandname" ( e.g. mentioning the brand name all over the place ) but even then....

The hardest part of any road is *not* the first step, its the patience and vision required to tread the next million steps required to get to the final destination.

I think of AmigaOS and MorphOS like two seeds planted too close to each other, sharing each others space, light and nutrients. Wise gardeners could either shift them or nourish both. Some gardeners would kill one so that the other would have a greater chance. Bad gardeners would allow one gardener to try and kill one plant and the other to try and kill the other plant.

At the moment the Amiga and MorphOS community is full of bad gardeners, further reducing the chance of success. After all, who would want to ( without being bought with free hardware or a job ) join this community if they weren't already here?
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 103 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by WHO?!? on 09-May-2003 09:29 GMT
Who gives a sheet?;)The numbers of the both combined don't add up to anything approaching interesting. The truth is, they(both) need to find enough capital
for mass production AND marketing, otherwise, its Niche Forever.
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 104 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris on 09-May-2003 09:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (DaveP):
Sorry you must confuse me with another Ben because I don't try anything regarding MOS or Amiga OS.

In fact I don't understand your reply nor your reaction.

Anytway Dream On is a good pun indeed :) www.dreamon-studio.com

Bye,
Ben
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 105 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris on 09-May-2003 09:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (pixie):
And despite all this it menages to sell more boards (at least in this shop) then Pegasos, make us think...


1- Either people are crazy enough to by a PPC machine without its own OS (yet) twice or three times the price of a Linux x86 machine (and twice the price of a Pegasos sometimes)

2- The advertising and commercial policy of the OS 4/Aone camp is VERY efficient !
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 106 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 09-May-2003 10:00 GMT
What's your target market? Some small diehard elitist group or something larger?It really does seem to me that lately to many are trying to rationalize their position.Regardless that everyone knows the facts of market share regarding architecture well enough, even if they don't.Most are using x86...many don't know of anything else. But if you know of the PPC....then you certainly know of the x86....shrug..
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 107 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 09-May-2003 11:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 104 (Ben Yoris):
OK Ill demonstrate what I have an issue with:

" The fact that the Amiga One has still no OS (and the release date is still unknown and uncertain) allows the Pegasos to win some yards and some more interest outside the Amiga "community".

To be even clearer:

"still has no OS"


Whats Linux then Ben? An African swallow?

Explain why Linux would not have more interest outside the Amiga community than MorphOS or AmigaOS?

That is exactly what I asked. Or did another Ben Yoris post that?
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 108 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 09-May-2003 11:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 105 (Ben Yoris):
There you go again. Linux is an OS and a better one than AOS or MOS.

You missed #3

3) People are quite happy to support the PPC architecture, run Linux on the AmigaONE and patient enough to wait for AOS4 on it when it comes and don't buy Pegasos because they know a real NEW AmigaOS on it ( with all the new architecture ) will never appear for it. And thats despite the consistent campaigning to try and get them to stop being so tolerant.

But no, its either stupidity (opt #1) or gullibility ( duped through advertising(opt #3) ). You don't really have a high opinion of those waiting for AOS4 do you?
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 109 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 09-May-2003 11:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 102 (DaveP):
> I think of AmigaOS and MorphOS like two seeds planted too close to each other, > sharing each others space, light and nutrients. Wise gardeners could either
> shift them or nourish both. Some gardeners would kill one so that the other
> would have a greater chance. Bad gardeners would allow one gardener to try and > kill one plant and the other to try and kill the other plant.

It's worse then that, one plant has sprouted and has atleast six months of growth before the second seed has even broken the ground yet. Mean while the garden has other shoots already soaking up the sunlight. All in all, it doesn't look for the seed that hasn't sprouted. Guess some are just bad seeds from the start. ;)

Dammy
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 110 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 09-May-2003 11:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (dammy):
Second seed hasn't made much use of its headstart eh? Its limited to 6mm in growth ;-)
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 111 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 09-May-2003 11:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 108 (DaveP):
Correction

duped through advertising opt #2

Doh!
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 112 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 09-May-2003 11:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 110 (DaveP):
It may not have grown all that tall, but it's spreading outwards by a good foot and grabbing alot of the sunshine. WHich is bad thing for the seed that hasn't sprouted yet, if ever.

Dammy
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 113 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 09-May-2003 11:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 112 (dammy):
But even despite the other seed not flowing yet its stem is outgrowing the one stuck to 6mm.

What would you rather have a weed ( that grows laterally but not vertically to starve other plants of sunshine ) or a flower ;-)

Not that this is getting ridiculous or anything :-D
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 114 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 09-May-2003 11:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 112 (dammy):
But even despite the other seed not flowing yet its stem is outgrowing the one stuck to 6mm.

What would you rather have a weed ( that grows laterally but not vertically to starve other plants of sunshine ) or a flower ;-)

Not that this is getting ridiculous or anything :-D
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 115 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 09-May-2003 12:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 96 (Iggy Drougge):
maybe because one don't want a linux machine like some or most of pegasos were sold to, they want AmigaOS4. Simply isn't it!? ;b
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 116 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 09-May-2003 14:07 GMT
All that matters is that people are happy with they new Amigas, no matter if it is AmigaOne or Pegasos, no matter which is sold more than other. Those who don't think like that say it now so that we can kick your ass :) Maybe that will teach you what is important and what is not :)
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 117 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 09-May-2003 17:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (priest):
>btw. is the optional riser card available for pegasos?

You can use any standard riser card.

See: http://zuik.org/cam/Pegasos/
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 118 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris on 10-May-2003 05:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 108 (DaveP):
You really don't have to be agressive like that =)

I consider Linux as an OS of course and I must apologise if I offensed you in this way (my God...).

But you should admit that buying an Amiga One just for Linux at the moment for twice the price of a x86 machine where Linux x86 is more developed seems a bit strange. When OS 4 is ready of course that will be another story but for the moment, buying an Amiga One saying "Linux runs on it" is quite illogical TO ME. (No need to teach me a lesson about Linux, spare your time)

As for my consideration towards people waiting for OS 4 : first it's not of your concern, second I've plenty of friends waiting for OS4 with whom I can discuss about this "affair" without being agressed or talked in the tone you employ. This is called being civilised I think !

Have a good day !
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 119 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris on 10-May-2003 05:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (Anonymous):
A good post indeed !
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 120 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by vortexau on 10-May-2003 09:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (mahen):
> Who is mister Sheen?

In Australia Mister Sheen is the name of an aerosol-based Furniture Polish! The [b]motto[/b] goes:
"Polish as you dust with Mister Sheen!"
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 121 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 10-May-2003 13:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 118 (Ben Yoris):
Aggressive? I think you must have read it with preconceptions.
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 122 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris on 10-May-2003 17:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 121 (DaveP):
Ahahah LOL :)

You're really made for ANN :)
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 123 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-May-2003 06:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 118 (Ben Yoris):
""But you should admit that buying an Amiga One just for Linux at the moment for twice the price of a x86 machine where Linux x86 is more developed seems a bit strange. When OS 4 is ready of course that will be another story but for the moment, buying an Amiga One saying "Linux runs on it" is quite illogical TO ME. (No need to teach me a lesson about Linux, spare your time)""

Who said that they are buying Aone for linux! ATM No one.
The only reason why ppl are saying "Linux runs on it" is because of ppl saying Aone is a mobo with out an Os, which is wrong because it makes it sound like no OS runs on the Aone ATM. Aone is a mobo with out The OS that it was intended for.

PPL are buying the Aone for Aos4, but want to have the wardware ready for when Aos4 comes out & the Aone just happends to come with linux. It does not matter if the Os it came with ATM was linux or any other OS.

Its very common for ppl to buy things before they need them.

A pair od speaker before they have bought weeks before thay have bought the HIFI.

A Car before they have past their driving test.
A set of alloy wheels before they have bought a car.

And in the computing world evem more so with ppl buying just a mobo with out nothing else to plug into it or even the other way around buying all the addon gfx/sound card, ram, monitor, tower But no mobo.

Its simple logic as it justs saves time for when things are already that you have everthing you need right there & then you dont have to go out looking for stuff you need later, its called planning ahead.

Waiting for the exact moment you need something to then get that thing you need is shortsighted.

Nothing worse than a youngster getting a new toy at X-Mas opening it to find that it did not come with batteries.

Conclusion: Some ppl know what they want and will get what they need as soon as they can wether compleat or not so as soon as it is compleat they can use it strate away with out waiting for the compleat thing to come to them.

The chances are that the ppl who already have an Aone will be running Aos4 alot sooner than ppl waiting for Aos4 to be out before buying the Aone/Aos4 combo, that is the most likey reason why some are buying Aone now.
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 124 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 11-May-2003 07:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 123 (Anonymous):
Quite. Perhaps between yours and mine explanations Ben Yoris might begin to
understand.
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 125 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 12-May-2003 09:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 96 (Iggy Drougge):
I bet availability matters...
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 126 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 12-May-2003 09:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 123 (Anonymous):
As it seems that A1 currently contains the licence for AOS4 & Hyperion ought to get their EUROs for it... A1 can also be seen as another way to buy AOS4 "coupons" to support AOS4 development... ;-) ;-P
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