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[News] Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-lineANN.lu
Posted on 07-Jun-2003 22:00 GMT by Mikey_C149 comments
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AmigaWorld.net has posted 4 Screenshots on their website from Hyperion - you can view them via this Link
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 101 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 08-Jun-2003 20:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 99 (Senex):
No-one esle but eyetech using the ArticiaS? Goto google & do a search.

I've posted a whole bunch of links relating to this issue, and as i stated before, the only public reference to problems with the ArticiaS were on the debian list, and they predated the April & the fixed articia.

Also, it was stated that said problem rarely occured on the A1, but the Peg had alot of issue's with it.

Therefor, my conclusion is that the Pegasos is to blame.

My sources tell me that terrasoft dropped their plans due to other reasons (mainly financial ones), not because of the hardware, but i couldn't get any confirmation on it.

Prove it or shove it, that's all i'm saying.

Amon_Re
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 102 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 08-Jun-2003 20:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 100 (Ian Shurmer):
i'm betatesting privately mozila mui'ified port for amigaos3.
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 103 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Ian Shurmer on 08-Jun-2003 20:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 102 (brotheris):
Erm... good for you! :-)

Ian
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 104 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 08-Jun-2003 21:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 92 (brotheris):
> It is released. At least this puts MorphOS in lead.

And you think this is going give MorphOS the good reputation it needs?

/*
AmigaOS4 is what ? For now they are almost the same. Box concept allows full mp for an OS. ExecSG concept doesn't allow that (unless off course only for new apps <- tell me what will you get ? ;-)
*/

new i fill quote some thing from <http://64.246.37.205/files/morphos_in_detail.pdf>

<START>
The A-box can run Amiga RTG (Re-Targetable Graphics) applications as it includes a complete PowerPC native clean room reimplementation of version 3.1 of the Amigas Operation System (herein AOS) and a JIT (Just in Time compiler) based 68k emulator
<END>

What is box, a box where otter rules apply accepted, this rolls do not include memory protection or any otter advanced option, unlike AmigaOS4.0 that continues the road with the Exec kernel, and instead of excluding old OS3.x applications by not integrating it to the system by letting it run by it self in side a box (free zone), unlike MorphOS there is no need for a Q/Box or separate environment as programs can co/exist and simply applying different rules on different programs I can Se that even OS3.x apps can benefit form not being allowed to access different memory areas, memory are tagged to be readable or writable or executable, so this limits faults and ExecSG has the ability for stack enlargement, on MorphOS there exits nothing like that.

MorphOS may look it hot Ferrari, well under the hood there is cart engine.
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 105 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 08-Jun-2003 21:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 104 (Kjetil):
> It is released. At least this puts MorphOS in lead.

And you think this is going give MorphOS the good reputation it needs?

/*
AmigaOS4 is what ? For now they are almost the same. Box concept allows full mp for an OS. ExecSG concept doesn't allow that (unless off course only for new apps <- tell me what will you get ? ;-)
*/

now I will quote some thing from <http://64.246.37.205/files/morphos_in_detail.pdf>

<START>
The A-box can run Amiga RTG (Re-Targetable Graphics) applications as it includes a complete PowerPC native clean room reimplementation of version 3.1 of the Amigas Operation System (herein AOS) and a JIT (Just in Time compiler) based 68k emulator
<END>

What is box, a box where otter rules apply accepted, this rolls do not include memory protection or any otter advanced option, unlike AmigaOS4.0 that continues the road with the Exec kernel, and instead of excluding old OS3.x applications by not integrating it to the system by letting it run by it self in side a box (free zone), unlike MorphOS there is no need for a Q/Box or separate environment as programs can co/exist and simply applying different rules on different programs I can Se that even OS3.x apps can benefit form not being allowed to access different memory areas, memory are tagged to be readable or writable or executable, so this limits faults and ExecSG has the ability for stack enlargement, on MorphOS there exits nothing like that.

MorphOS may look it hot Ferrari, well under the hood there is cart engine.
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 106 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 08-Jun-2003 21:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 104 (Kjetil):
Hello,

I don't think it's possible to have a robust system with non memory protected apps running in the same environement as memory protected ones, but maybe I'm wrong.

I think that, because this has already been done in the past in Win 9x, and didn't get a very good result.
On the contrary Apple in MacOS X choosed to separate MacOS 9 from MacOS X clearly by using a box (Classic), and it showed to be very clean and that allow MacOS X to stay very robust as the OS 9 apps are clearly separated from OS X apps.

Maybe it's not the same for OS 4 and MOS, but Win 9x and MacOS X are the two current example of a transition from a non memory protected environement to a memory protected one. One doesn't use a box (Win 9x), the other use a box (MacOS X with Classic) and the most robust is the one using a box.

Maybe Hyperion found another solution, but at least we know that box concept works and works very well, OS X clearly show its efficiency.

Regards
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 107 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 08-Jun-2003 21:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (Anonymous):
There is not even a Voodoo3 3d driver available to Beta2 testers. You keep telling the beta testers that there is one and that the Radeon drivers are in developent, but hey, you cannot ly to them forever
--

The Voodoo3 driver exists and it rocks, the Radeon driver exists too, but it's
not ready.

All this is OT, please stop.
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 108 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 08-Jun-2003 21:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 66 (Anonymous):
"No beta2 tester has seen that"... Wrong.
Bigfoot's port is in my disk and works fine.
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 109 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 08-Jun-2003 21:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 75 (Anonymous):
Ahem, you are aware of the fact that OS3.X has pull down menus??? Check them out and you see the missing functionallity.
--
Bah, YOU are probably unaware of the FACT that it has context menus instead.
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 110 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Ian Shurmer on 08-Jun-2003 21:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
All this is OT, please stop.

Ian
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 111 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 08-Jun-2003 22:04 GMT
Ah, stop the off-topic stuff, please!

This thread isn't about MorphOS, but about AmigaOS4.0, and more specifically, the look of AmigaOS4.0.

It looks okay - some bits are nice, some bits suck (brushed metal texture in particular). Until I have used it, I will not know if it is actually good.
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 112 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 08-Jun-2003 22:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 111 (Anonymous):
Actually, I personally do not at all care about the screengrabs, I care about the fact that it has been shown working on PPC. The grabs do not show anything
that could be more significant than that.
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 113 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 08-Jun-2003 22:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 106 (Frodon):
Now I understand your background for your argument now I can say what I think about,

the work done on Mac:

the multitasking where incompatible with SMP, thats big problem is you tow CPU's, if you are going to make task run in true multitasking, you may get problems with programs they expect data to be available due the syncing with in the core it self, they may have being forced to do Box version, it might be like trying to integrate Atari programs on AmigaOS, don't think you can do this with out pushing it inside a box, Similar problems you head with the Win3.x serious when they where integrated in to Win9x,

While there where nothing wrong with multitasking or modularity with in the AmigaOS, the problem where linked to api structure and how task communicate with one and otter old 68k programs most be allowed to access the memory area of one and otter due to arexx and exec communications ports, and there is the issue with hardware dependencies that can not be fixed with out integrating UAE that will be truly real box design, so in otter word there otter problems that needed to be solved, I believe most of the 680x0 programs that run on A4000 will work with no problem well, on AmigaOne the 680x0 task that try to access the hardware will be terminated, the only problem will happen if one 680x0 task overwrites an otter 680x0 task, and if that happens you are simply unlucky, there are billions of otter things it can access like none alloted memory that will force a terminate task reaction. it will not bring every 68k task down like in the old days.

A4000 realize it's smart to build program base for the AmigaOne, going AmigaOne will enhance the process but when most programs don't run it will not be good for marketing the product.

there is nothing like clean design when it comes to hardware dependencies there will be a lot of programs that are best used on UAE or on a Amiga4000 or Amiga1200 if they take the time to get it up and running.
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 114 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by tired on 08-Jun-2003 22:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 111 (Anonymous):
yep in fact, that are 4 scrrenshots which look like any wb3.1 nicely
patched, perhaps there's no much to say about this and people prefer
debating about "real" things
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 115 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by menelaus on 08-Jun-2003 22:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (Anonymous):
"I do very well know that Morphos is nowhere near to the functionallity and
stability of OS3.x. OK you can tell everyone that it's faster then OS3.1.."

man, thats good newws...maybe thats why billie 'soldier boy' buck wants aros and
a few other os ported to pegasos (because of the lousy state of mos) :)

oh, better stay on topic.....the screenshoots looks ok..
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 116 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 08-Jun-2003 22:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 115 (menelaus):
As if he knows what he's talking about... He didn't even know that
Ambient has got context menus...

Anyway, the real news here is that OS4 works on PPC, the screenshots
are a bonus.
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 117 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 08-Jun-2003 22:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
this if from comment 62

<quite>

Ow and in case you wonder if I own a Pegasos, probably to track me down...well no, but I do know someone who owns a Pegasos and while he's happy with it and is kinda brainwashed by it probably the speed (which again has nothing to do with MorphOS itself) he fails to admit that it's not stable, lack much functionability and craches when you f@rt to loud.

</quite>
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 118 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by tired on 08-Jun-2003 23:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
since it runs only on cyberstorm and not on teron, we dont know if its
really ppc :(
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 119 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 08-Jun-2003 23:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (Kjetil):
Well, I have farted in front of it, it didn't crash:)
Actually it's as stable an OS without memory protection that runs legacy software can go.
Software the hit the HW, produce HIIITS, but I hardly even get a full system
crash.
I hope that it will be the same with OS4, I want both products.
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 120 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 08-Jun-2003 23:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 118 (tired):
I think the speed will talk for it self. :)
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 121 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Iggy Drougge on 09-Jun-2003 02:23 GMT
Did you note how blown-up everything is in those screenshots? Is this the revenge of ClassAct, the Amiga's most space wasting GUI toolkit?
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 122 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 09-Jun-2003 04:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 104 (Kjetil):
> What is box, a box where otter rules apply accepted, this rolls do not include > memory protection or any otter advanced option, unlike AmigaOS4.0 that
> continues the road with the Exec kernel, and instead of excluding old OS3.x
> applications by not integrating it to the system by letting it run by it self
> in side a box (free zone), unlike MorphOS there is no need for a Q/Box or
> separate environment as programs can co/exist and simply applying different
> rules on different programs

do you understand that you will not have full and clean memory protection with current AmigaOS API ? Offcourse everything is possible if you invest a lot of time, but do you really want that solution ? If you'll want cleaner design, you will get some kind of box form.
"different rules on different programs" <-- what is it ?
when drivers will be moved from abox, you will have the abbility to restart abox without restarting whole morphos. Offcourse for now it's theoretical, because 5 sec VS 4 sec...
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 123 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Senex on 09-Jun-2003 04:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (Amon_Re):
> No-one esle but eyetech using the ArticiaS?
> Goto google & do a search.

I had a quick look, but since I'm too busy today to spend more time online, I'd be grateful if you could tell me instead in which full-blown desktop computer systems the Articia also is used, since you do know it already? (I'm of course not speaking of the more specialized tasks the Articia was originally designed for, obviously.)
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 124 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 09-Jun-2003 05:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 123 (Senex):
I realise it is too much to ask for the OT BS about Articia and the like to be removed but hey if you have a reply to Senex maybe it could go on a forum topic......
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 125 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Rik Sweeney on 09-Jun-2003 06:14 GMT
The only thing that I REALLY REALLY hate are the radio buttons

http://www.stormloader.com/amiga/osnews/amiga1.htm

Why are they still square?
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 126 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 09-Jun-2003 07:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 125 (Rik Sweeney):
"The only thing that I REALLY REALLY hate are the radio buttons

Why are they still square?"

Why not? The active area is square, so why use a round image? The image should indicate the area you have to click in to get the desired effect.
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 127 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Jon on 09-Jun-2003 08:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 126 (Don Cox):
Maybe someone would confuse them with checkboxes if they look the same.
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 128 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 09-Jun-2003 09:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 127 (Jon):
Fair point.

So how does the user tell whether a button is going to allow other buttons to be active at the same time?

I think the answer is in what you see after you click on one. A check button will show a tick, a radio button will show a "pressed in" look, probably with a change of colour too.

If you think about it, it doesn't matter which kind they are until you have selected one of them. Then, a tick box allows you to select another one without disengaging the first, while a radio button doesn't.
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 129 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 09-Jun-2003 09:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Anonymous):
"Microsoft delivering real pre-emptive, multi-user memory protected OS for the PC"

You are joking right ? Microsoft may claim they use pre-emptive multitasking but Windows multitasking still really sucks. Windows multitasking is not even close AmigaOS. But this issue has been talked about million times.
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 130 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 09-Jun-2003 09:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (DET Nicolas):
You mean Atari spirit.
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 131 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Jon on 09-Jun-2003 09:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 128 (Don Cox):
If I watched right, the radio button had round edges.

Maybe the meaning can be emphasized (sp?) by a clear tick symbol, a check mark for checkboxes and something else for radiobuttons, as usual.

But it's useless to speculate the current design, it's not stated to be final anyway.
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 132 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Ian Shurmer on 09-Jun-2003 10:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 131 (Jon):
Exactly, it's one thing to discuss the small details of the GUI but what'd I'd be more interested in is how stable the OS is, how much compatibility it's got with old apps, how responsive it is...

Because let's face it, cosmetic surgery is a LOT easier than a brain transplant! :-)

Ian
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 133 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by tired on 09-Jun-2003 11:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 120 (Kjetil):
i cant understand why it dont run on teron then ...
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 134 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Ian Shurmer on 09-Jun-2003 11:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 133 (tired):
Oh go to bed!
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 135 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 09-Jun-2003 14:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (Amon_Re):
"@My sources tell me that terrasoft dropped their plans due to other reasons (mainly financial ones), not because of the hardware, but i couldn't get any confirmation on it.

Prove it or shove it, that's all i'm saying."

Right back at you. PROVE that this is the reason Terrasoft dropped their plans, or shove it.

You can't demand others prove overything they say and then offer unfounded rumour yourself...
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 136 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 09-Jun-2003 16:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 135 (Anonymous):
I think that was rather his point.

Duh!
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 137 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 09-Jun-2003 17:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 136 (DaveP):
Oh really?

Seems to me like he was presenting his guesses as valid reasons whilst simultaneously condemning anyone else who dared post without citing concrete references...
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 138 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by tired on 09-Jun-2003 18:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 134 (Ian Shurmer):
you could try to give an answer instead of such childish comment
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 139 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by RedTrollOne = BlueTrollTwo on 09-Jun-2003 18:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 105 (Kjetil):
> MorphOS may look it hot Ferrari, well under the hood there is cart engine.

And under the hood of every AmigaOne sold are trained hamsters running on hamster 'wheels'
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 140 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by BeerFace on 09-Jun-2003 18:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 99 (Senex):
> Sure... - that's why Eyetech is the only one selling such a board, eh?
> And because of that Ross Heinlein canceled his Articia-based Barbie board,
> right? And also because just Genesi having problems Terrasoft also doesn't
> plan to sell the Teron currently - for reasons they don't want to discuss
> in public? What a series of strange coincidences...

Meybe the hamster beeing on strike? "HEY We NOT make Teron baords for peanuts.. We NOT make Teron baords for peanuts" !!!

Go Hamstah Powaar!!!
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 141 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by breed on 09-Jun-2003 19:23 GMT
How can a thread based on screenshots can become a thread about OS4 vs MOS????
Anyone can explain to me?

pffff.....
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 142 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by redfox on 10-Jun-2003 01:18 GMT
Getting back to the original thread "Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line" ...

Great screenshots, Hyperion. Thanks for all your efforts.

-----------
redfox

(I missed out on all the recent news because our pc was out of commission most of the weekend while we were upgrading the os to Microsoft Windows xp)
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 143 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 10-Jun-2003 06:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 139 (RedTrollOne = BlueTrollTwo):
Well I done a check on the master story it turn out that hamsters is used to generate electricity:
<http://www.aaaugh.com/jokes/hamster_power.html>

Hamsters are can be used as tools for crating computer devices:
<http://www.skennedy44.freeserve.co.uk/etrex.html>

Hamsters can be used to identify fingerprints when connected to computers
<http://www.nitgen.com/eng/products/hamster.htm>

for more information on the subject you can try this link
<http://www.altavista.com/web/results?q=%2Bhamster+%2Bcomputer+%2Bpower+%2Bhistory+-Humour+++&kgs=0&kls=1&avkw=xytx&stq=10>

“+hamster +computer +power +history –Humour”

AltaVista found 4,518 results so it most be true.
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 144 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 10-Jun-2003 20:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 106 (Frodon):
I'll second that. The "box" method is superior.

Of course the thing about MorphOS is, everything currently runs int he box. I was rather hoping apps running inside and outside the box would run in the same interface. For example Ambient would run in its own box.
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 145 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 10-Jun-2003 20:40 GMT
Kjetil's posts make my brain hurt. I wonder what his native language is.

No wait, no I don't.
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 146 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 11-Jun-2003 10:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 144 (strobe):
I don't know if the box approach is in fact superior in the long run, I know that now is completely useless as you have to restart if something goes wrong and you want to run your Amiga apps.

Q-box will once have it's own apps, but until then... I don't see why you argue it's better, it could be...

Other had compared OSX with Win9*, why do you compare one good implementation with one bad!? Can't we have if done properly, a Win9* kind of aprroach but done well!?

It's bad logic, you can have a sand box implemented Win9* way (i.e. bad) and a Win9* kind off way implemented OSX way (i.e-good)

That's all folks
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 147 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 11-Jun-2003 20:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 88 (Frodon):
> It's simple, you are disgusting people by putting a very bad ambiance with your flamewar posts.

Hes not disgusting people, hes disgusting you and your little circle. I wonder ... especially cause I know at least part of what he says is true ... oh well, luckily i dont care about morphos.
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 148 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 11-Jun-2003 20:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 144 (strobe):
> I'll second that. The "box" method is superior.

And I decline this. Box approach is brute force, bulky, slow and therefor inferior. But who cares?
Official Hyperion OS4 Screenshots now on-line : Comment 149 of 149ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Jun-2003 20:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 148 (Ketzer):
Also, in its current state, the abox is completely useless since a crash inside is quivalent to a system crash.
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