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[News] Strong Genesi presence at AmiwestANN.lu
Posted on 29-Jul-2003 17:41 GMT by Daniel Miller327 comments
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In the Genesi presentation on Sunday, Matt Sealey got up and did a passionate job explaining all the great things that are available and coming for MorphOS. The other Genesi speakers did an excellent team presentation that showed off the great benefits and many positive attributes of MorphOS on the Pegasos. My early reporting for Amiga-News.de related the story of Saturday's Genesi presentation, which went poorly due to technical problems unrelated to the abilities of MorphOS or the technical excellence of the Pegasos. The problems owed more to configuration and hard-drive settings, and the Genesi team stumbled a bit because of that. Conversely the OS4 presentation, done on a A4000 (OS4 has yet to be demonstrated on an Amiga One), went very well. In all cases those reports dealt only with Saturday. The Genesi presentation on Sunday went smashingly, and they showed a lot of teamwork and frankly they recovered completely from Saturday I wrote the Saturday's report as a journalist, not a MorphOS advocate. I don't like it being portrayed the way it has been on ANN in the post by anonymous AM. My article was not about the stupid OS4 vs. MorphOS war, it was about Amiwest on Saturday. The MorphOS presentation on Sunday kicked ass. I am sorry I wasn't able to report on it later Sunday, being on the road. It is a bit of an injustice that so called advocates are the ones who do a lot of the reporting, leaving Internet readers hostage to their prejudices. I tried to stay away from that in my reports. In the Genesi presentation on Sunday, Matt Sealey got up and did a passionate job explaining all the great things that are available and coming for MorphOS. The other Genesi speakers did an excellent team presentation that showed off the great benefits and many positive attributes of MorphOS on the Pegasos. Bill Buck spoke very well also. Genesi made a lot of friends on Saturday and Sunday, and showed that they 100% earned their place in the Amiga community, where they belong. They have an almost complete solution that is so far more advanced than OS4 that it is not even funny. The OS4 presenter did a great with the presentation but as far as the actual product there is absolutely no comparison. Maybe someday Hyperion and partners will produce something to compae with MorphOS and Pegasos but not yet, and this fact was clear to anyone who attended Amiwest. I wish ANN would adopt a policy of not letting anonymous posters leave news stories. The article as characterized by AM is an oversimplification and really is a distortion. Let's leave the MorphOS-OS4 war behind for once. At Amiwest we did.
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 101 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Jul-2003 07:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Eva):
No. Not jocking, or jogging or even joking. Simple fact. It's just not good enough yet. It would be preferable if the blue camp would stop saying how wonderful MOS is, when it's quite obvious to anyone who's been near it that it isn't. *yet*.
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 102 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 30-Jul-2003 08:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 79 (Fabio Alemagna):
"Really? We must live in different worlds, then, where people apologize for their mistakes and otherwise don't expect anything in return.

It's not something you can "forgive" for without the other party even acknowledging he was wrong, you know."

Of course you can. If you are going to wait for a formal admission that the other guy was in the wrong, you will waste your life in harbouring grudges.
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 103 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Jul-2003 08:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (Anonymous):
" No. Not jocking, or jogging or even joking. Simple fact. It's just not good enough yet. It would be preferable if the blue camp would stop saying how wonderful MOS is, when it's quite obvious to anyone who's been near it that it isn't. *yet*."

Dear Mr. Anonymous

The original which to you replied was:

"I'm using Morphos and pegasos by six months and I don't understand an H of programs, betatest and so on!
It substituted completely my A4000 with cyberstormPPC and Amigaos3.9."

Which is correct. Pegasos/MOS substituted my BlizzPPC too, and there isn't much experience needed to use MOS, if you had an Amiga before. (Even my rarely visiting sister can use it without problems) Just try it out.
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 104 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 30-Jul-2003 08:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 88 (Olegil):
"When people start talking about chopping peoples heads off so they can have a good time, I don't think any parallel is too strong. Agreed?"

So long as they stick to talking, I can live with it. I haven't seen any photos of severed heads from recent shows.
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 105 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 30-Jul-2003 08:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 94 (Nicolas Sallin):
"Benjamin Hermans doesn't apologize because he is actually *still*
repeating to his close "friends" how MorphOS is using stolen AmigaOS
source code and other pure lies.

That's purely unacceptable and must end now."

It's his opinion. You have a different opinion. People can't always agree on everything - in fact, you will never find anyone who agrees with you on everything.
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 106 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 30-Jul-2003 08:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 105 (Don Cox):
And if you do, you'll find they're just sucking up, and thus aren't contributing to progress.
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 107 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 30-Jul-2003 08:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 104 (Don Cox):
Good thing Alkis and Samface haven't met on a show, then...
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 108 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Jon on 30-Jul-2003 08:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 94 (Nicolas Sallin):
Mr. Sallin, I haven't seen him written that for ages. What do you mean by friends?

I think BenH has given many arrogant answers on forums but I think that your are even on top of those. For example, I remember asking from you about some simple thing about MOS and after being flamed I never returned to #morphos. Maybe it's time for you to correct your attitude, too. And maybe it's time for Ben to solve this up. Perhaps you can do it even personally, not on forums.

Thanks for listening.
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 109 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 30-Jul-2003 08:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 93 (DaveP):
> I figured it was a convention from the days of 0.4s development method :-) On BPPC/CSPPC machines using .elf postfix was very conventional. Many users installed MorphOS over AmigaOS partition but with .elf postfix you could have two working OSes on same partition. By they way, how OS4 betatesters handled this?
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 110 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 30-Jul-2003 08:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (itix):
conventional -> convenient
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 111 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 30-Jul-2003 09:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (itix):
I handle it using PATH, assigns and two seperate startup-sequences ( user, startup etc ) that I can copy back and forth as I need to boot into either.

Actually ( if I can say this without being told off ) I stay in OS4 all the time these days. :-)
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 112 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 30-Jul-2003 09:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 111 (DaveP):
DaveP: Would that be OS4 as in 68k kernel with some OS4 modules, or
actually running completely on the PPC?
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 113 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 30-Jul-2003 09:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 112 (Johan Rönnblom):
Im afraid I can't comment on that, much as Id like to :-) Sorry!
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 114 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Wayne Hunt on 30-Jul-2003 09:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (KenH):
"Unfortunately it'll take alot more passion for me to seperate Matt from Neko."

All it would take is meeting him face to face. I must say, I was pleasantly surprised. After meeting him and working "in the trenches" getting the booth built, the only thing I can ever "blame" Matt's online presence for is over enthusiasm.

Wayne Hunt
Genesi USA
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 115 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 30-Jul-2003 09:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 114 (Wayne Hunt):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Wayne Hunt
Genesi USA
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Hey Wayne!!! :-)
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 116 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Wayne Hunt on 30-Jul-2003 09:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Nicolas Sallin):
@Nicolas

Not fair. Play nice. :)

Ben was, and he had a point. If anything, AmiWest showed that two teams with *seemingly* opposed views can be civil (though amazingly during breakfast and our conversations, it didn't seem as though our views were really that far apart).

I thought it fairly interesting that not only were both "camps" there, but we actually interacted on a social level, discussing everything from hardware to our opinions on the Amiga Inc situation -- which are amazingly similar, and get this.... No one died....

Wayne Hunt
Genesi USA
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 117 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 30-Jul-2003 10:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (Wayne Hunt):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
@Nicolas

Not fair. Play nice. :)

Ben was, and he had a point. If anything, AmiWest showed that two teams with *seemingly* opposed views can be civil (though amazingly during breakfast and our conversations, it didn't seem as though our views were really that far apart).

I thought it fairly interesting that not only were both "camps" there, but we actually interacted on a social level, discussing everything from hardware to our opinions on the Amiga Inc situation -- which are amazingly similar, and get this.... No one died....

Wayne Hunt
Genesi USA
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


It's mostly pathetic individuals who drag the flame wars. I, and I imagine most pople have nothing against either Genesi or Hyperion...

Anyway, the important issue is if Hyperion would be interesteed in a co-operation "pact", to allow a larger Software base... along the lines of, I don't know... OpenAmiga? :-)
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 118 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 30-Jul-2003 10:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 94 (Nicolas Sallin):
> Benjamin Hermans doesn't apologize because he is actually *still*
> repeating to his close "friends" how MorphOS is using stolen AmigaOS
> source code and other pure lies.

I can't speak about that, as i have no direct knowledge, so all I can say is that I know the feeling, and it's pretty much obvious that he still believes, or at least pretends to believe that you used stolen source code, otherwise he would have already apologized.
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 119 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 30-Jul-2003 10:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 97 (Kjetil):
> they have integrated automatic stack enlargement an that they think that it
> prime reason for 90% all crashes

It would be interesting to know how do they _free_ the memory they allocate when it's not used anymore, as there's no deterministic way to know that. It works on other systems because they have different address spaces per process, and thus the leakage is unnoticeable (the unused stack being just "swapped out").
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 120 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 30-Jul-2003 10:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 102 (Don Cox):
> Of course you can. If you are going to wait for a formal admission that the
> other guy was in the wrong, you will waste your life in harbouring grudges.

You can, perhaps, but I don't see why you have to. It's not about wasting lives, it's just about stating how things are.
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 121 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 30-Jul-2003 10:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 105 (Don Cox):
> It's his opinion.

Opinion? An euphemism to say "slander", i presume.

> You have a different opinion. People can't always agree on everything - in fact,
> you will never find anyone who agrees with you on everything.

This is not about agreeing, this is about _proving_ those claims, or shutting up.
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 122 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 30-Jul-2003 10:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 119 (Fabio Alemagna):
"> they have integrated automatic stack enlargement an that they think that it
> prime reason for 90% all crashes

It would be interesting to know how do they _free_ the memory they allocate when it's not used anymore, "

How does Stack Attack do it?
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 123 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Jul-2003 10:44 GMT
So, i imagine Bill Buck asked you to write a new report where you would put genesi under a very good light after what you said at the show.
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 124 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 30-Jul-2003 10:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 122 (Don Cox):
> How does Stack Attack do it?

StackAttack doesn't do it, StackAttack only increases the stack size at time of program's launching.
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 125 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 30-Jul-2003 10:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 119 (Fabio Alemagna):
> It would be interesting to know how do they _free_ the memory they allocate when
> it's not used anymore, as there's no deterministic way to know that. It works on
> other systems because they have different address spaces per process, and thus
> the leakage is unnoticeable (the unused stack being just "swapped out").

Thinking about it, though, it could work exactly that way also on AmigaOS: just let the memory subsystem swap out unused memory. It wastes virtual memory, of course, but it's better than allocating an huge stack at the beginning.
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 126 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Neko on 30-Jul-2003 11:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Actually I do both, or will do, or will try to, as I am some kind of expert
in it (having done it before) and designed a lot of stuff there. All kinds of
stuff.

I also have other projects.

Don't try to tell me my job, Alkis.
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 127 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Neko on 30-Jul-2003 11:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (greenboy):
@greenboy:

I'll drink you under the table anytime, as long as Joe Torre is on my team :)

@Ben/James:

More Sapporo next time :)
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 128 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer on 30-Jul-2003 11:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 119 (Fabio Alemagna):
It would also be interesting to know how large a stack, especially for 68k code, is allowed to get.As OS4, from all accounts, still has a flat, unified address space, stacks for each process need to be fit into a rather limited space --- even ignoring all other claims for address space, it's 4GB max.Unfortunately, it's impossible to *move* a process' stack during resizing (because there might still be references to stuff on the old position hanging around). On the other hand, you can't have a non-contiguous stack, either.Yes, I can think of one rather horrible way to abuse the MMU to allow moving a process' stack which would be mostly compatible (but not completely so --- comparison of pointers to stack space would become unreliable) --- however, it would result in somewhat bloated MMU tables.But as long as stack address space has to be allocated at program start (the way stack *memory* needs to be now), I can see a tough tradeoff between space to allocate per process, and maximum number of processes supported.
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 129 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 30-Jul-2003 11:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 128 (Bernie Meyer):
> it would also be interesting to know how large a stack, especially for 68k code,
> is allowed to get.
> As OS4, from all accounts, still has a flat, unified address space, stacks for
> each process need to be fit into a rather limited space --- even ignoring all
> other claims for address space, it's 4GB max.
>
> Unfortunately, it's impossible to *move* a process' stack during resizing
> (because there might still be references to stuff on the old position hanging
> around). On the other hand, you can't have a non-contiguous stack, either.

Indeed, allocating the additional stack space can even fail, unlike on other systems, just because there might be some other things placed right at the place where the stack should grow up. You could, actually, have non linear stack, as long as stack is used only by means of C-like function calls and as no nested functions are used. But that would be highly limititative...
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 130 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Jul-2003 11:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (Darrin):
Don't be so arrogant, Mister!Nobody asked you to act as a mediator, still you like to "put" ppl somewhereand judge them. This is not appreciated since you are in no position to do that.
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 131 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer on 30-Jul-2003 11:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 129 (Fabio Alemagna):
I can't see how you could realistically do non-contiguous stack for 68k code --- which has *no* concept of keeping the stack aligned to anything but 2**1. This means that for non-contiguous stacks, a 32 or 64 bit access may fall across a "gap" in the stack --- which is very very bad. If you bracket each part of the stack with non-mapped pages, you could detect that --- but still, it's a nightmare.At least on the PPC side, the most common ABI requires a much stronger stack alignment, and prescribes a very rigid format for stackframes. So it would be doable, I guess. But I am not convinced it would be any easier than making PPC code use separate address spaces in the first place... (yes, that would break zero-copy IPC in general, but is that *really* a problem?)
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 132 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Jul-2003 11:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (Olegil):
Sorry to be offtopic, but could you give system memory write speeds of G3AmigaOne, please?
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 133 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 30-Jul-2003 11:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 130 (Anonymous):
>Don't be so arrogant, Mister!

I'm being arrogant by sugesting that people should get along? I see quite a few people offering olive branches now, are they arrogant too?

>Nobody asked you to act as a mediator,

I have never acted like a piece of Elbox hardware in my life. Besides, nobody asks the trolls to act like trolls - it doesn't stop them from starting flame wars. Are you so arrogant that you believe I need to ask your permission before I post an opinion? Now THAT'S arrogance. :-)

>still you like to "put" ppl somewhere and judge them.

I'm a very tidy person. Everything has it's place.

>This is not appreciated since you are in no position to do that.

Criminals usually don't like justice. Why do you have a problem with authority?
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 134 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Jul-2003 11:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (Wayne Hunt):
>I thought it fairly interesting that not only were both "camps" there, but we actually interacted on a social level

You must have had pretty gloomy expectations before going there if you find the basics of social interaction remarkable ;-) What were you expecting, a doom death match?
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 135 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Jul-2003 11:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 121 (Fabio Alemagna):
Didn't he tell on ANN he would serve Genesi with legal papers in September withhis title on it so they will realize he is no just a legal clerk...? :-P
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 136 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 30-Jul-2003 11:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (Anonymous):
Posted by Anonymous (62.199.203.180) on 30-Jul-2003 09:57:17

In Reply to Comment 39:
No. Not jocking, or jogging or even joking. Simple fact. It's just not good enough yet. It would be preferable if the blue camp would stop saying how wonderful MOS is, when it's quite obvious to anyone who's been near it that it isn't. *yet*.
---------------------

Yawn. For the n+1th time: MOS has replaced many people's AmigaOS's and Windowses. For me, both. I think I wouldn't have done it if MOS(1.3) would be in such bad condition you claim it is.
Trust me on this, of us two, I know better: MOS is nice to use, and I am sure it gets better as times goes by.

I find it a bit funny that people who don't even use MorphOS daily, tells us that we are spreading false information about it =)
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 137 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Wayne Hunt on 30-Jul-2003 12:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 134 (Anonymous):
"What were you expecting, a doom death match?"

If one were to judge from a person's actions on the forums, then yes. Absolutely. I was expecting a knock down, drag out war of words and actions. What I got was 12 people who, while honoring their own agenda, didn't act like the children they represent on the forums.
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 138 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 30-Jul-2003 12:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 137 (Wayne Hunt):
> If one were to judge from a person's actions on the forums, then yes.
> Absolutely. I was expecting a knock down, drag out war of words and actions.

Come on... :) It's very well known that not looking in the other party's eyes, and without risking anything physically-wise, everyone is much more inclined in behaving the way you were afraid they'd behave when meeting...

> What I got was 12 people who, while honoring their own agenda, didn't act like
> the children they represent on the forums.

That was completely expected, by me at least. However, it doesn't mean they didn't hold any grudge against each other :)
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 139 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 30-Jul-2003 12:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 137 (Wayne Hunt):
I'm glad to hear that you can actually act like an adult when meeting people in real life, Wayne. ;-)

Seriously, this is the typical "face-to-face" syndrome which means that most of us feel a certain obligation to be polite when meeting people in real life. For some reason, this sense of courtesy is simply not there when you are communicating through letters on a computer screen.

An interesting question would be; which way of communicating would be the most efficient one? I mean, are we hiding our true agenda behind our polite manners when meeting IRL, or is the rude forums too direct in order to make the debate constructive? I don't know, I just thought that it would make an interesting issue to discuss. =)
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 140 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 30-Jul-2003 13:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 139 (samface):
Let's keep this thread less than 100 comments from you alone, ok? =)
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 141 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 30-Jul-2003 13:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 94 (Nicolas Sallin):
That's the situation Nicolas and we can't do nothing to stop him :(
I'm too worry :(
We're only happy users and can only tell to amigans to open their eyes and support something that run, not something that "could in a distance day run".
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 142 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 30-Jul-2003 13:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (Anonymous):
Child tell us how Os4 is ...
Tell us the colour of vapour, come on.
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 143 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by René W. Olsen on 30-Jul-2003 13:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 131 (Bernie Meyer):
Both AOS4 and MOS is fully PPC native so any 68k program is software emulated and therefore the 68k stack don't have to be alligned to MMU block's. So if a 68k stack makes an underrun it probberly just hits a unassigned mmu block and a block is allocated and when the task terminate the MMU mem block's are free'ed.

I don't know about the PPC, do the CPU go throw the MMU translator when it fetches a Pointer from the stack? if not, I have to agree that alignment can be a problem.

René W. Olsen
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 144 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 30-Jul-2003 13:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 111 (DaveP):
Little problem ... Os4 is still a NON PRODUCT, MOS yes. I used the "if can be called alpha" OS4 in Italy 3 months ago and it is pathetic.
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 145 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 30-Jul-2003 13:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 142 (Eva):
Eva all you are succeeding in doing is adding yourself to the ignore list of "both camps".
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 146 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by amorel on 30-Jul-2003 13:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (Fabio Alemagna):
"I agree, that's why MOS uses AROS' parts (that is, no reinventing the wheel), and that's why I can't understand why AOS4 couldn't do the same (apart from a few things inherited from AOS3.x)."

I heard that the morphos team rewrote stuff from aros to use in morphos, because the aros code was too bad and/or didn`t fit the purpose. Ofcourse said code was released back again.

And in my opinion using oop in os development is rather bad.
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 147 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 30-Jul-2003 13:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 144 (Eva):
There are more than 100 beta tester using it as we speak, it has been publicly displayed on shows in both Europe and the U.S., why wouldn't it exist? I would agree to not released yet, but it surely exist just like you and me. I'm sorry but AmigaOS4 is coming, regardless if you want it or not.
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 148 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 30-Jul-2003 13:39 GMT
To all the people wondering how the stack extension mechanism works on the 68k emu: it has been said that the 68k emulation has a fully virtualised address space, and therefore can be shuffled around without the 68k code even noticing.

This is a guess, though. I'll leave it to the friedens to explain it properly (although they don't post here anymore...)
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 149 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 30-Jul-2003 13:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 146 (amorel):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I heard that the morphos team rewrote stuff from aros to use in morphos, because the aros code was too bad and/or didn`t fit the purpose. Ofcourse said code was released back again.

And in my opinion using oop in os development is rather bad.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I know the MOS team did do quite a bit of bug fixing in inutition and that required a lot of work.

OOP design in Drivers is quite a good idea and can speed development, and ease of use.
Strong Genesi presence at Amiwest : Comment 150 of 327ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 30-Jul-2003 13:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 143 (René W. Olsen):
> when the task terminate the MMU mem block's are free'ed.

That's the problem, the only safe moment to deallocate stack memory is at task's destruction time, which means that one task could easily fill up the whole memory just by doing too many recursions, without necessarily attempting to do an infinite amount of recursions (which would be a bug): this, together with the fact that there's only one memory space for all tasks/processes, makes this automatic stack enlargment feature a serious security flaw, and a bug in itself IF there's no limit to the amout of memory a stack can hold.
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