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[News] "No deal, no settlement" says AmigaANN.lu
Posted on 21-Aug-2003 06:01 GMT by SimplePPC299 comments
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Amiga Inc. officially denies existence of AmigaDE deal with Thendic/Genesi. http://www.amiga.com/corporate/082003-mcewen.shtml The recent "news" by Genesi that a deal or settlement was reached in the ongoing lawsuit between Thendic/Genesi and Amiga Inc. is officially denied by Bill McEwen. There is no deal to port AmigaDE nor AmigaOS 4.0 to the Pegasos.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 101 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Janne on 21-Aug-2003 11:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 98 (samface):
>So, both parties has finally agreed to what was said on Amiga.com then? I
>hate to say this... no I don't, I enjoy telling you all:

Actually, bbrv said something a little different. Read it yourself. Interesting to see how it all plays out.

I doubt, as usual, that either side was actually not telling the truth. Just another variation of it. It remains to be seen who is more honest in the long run.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 102 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 21-Aug-2003 11:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (Peter Gordon):
>"- AmigaOne-users are somewhere.. haven't seen much around. That, or they are too shamed to be public with their purchase?"

>They don't post here. Its nothing to do with shame, its just that the vast majority of us find all the flames and bitching boring. We have private lists and forums.


When I see "seen", I mean "seen" in the very sense of the word. I have seen lots of Pegasoses in Finland, but only one AmigaOne (which was shown at Amiga users club meeting).


>"- There are only talks of what will happen in future. Sadly this would require funds and Amiga Inc has less it than I."

>Having a roadmap is a bad thing?!


Of course not, but I was merely pointing just the financial side. If you can't make your roadmap or even a part of it true it's not worth much, is it?
Let's face it, releasing OS4 and AmigaAnywhere has taken too long time already. Not necessarily anyones fault, just a fact.
If we go on by this roadmap, when do you expect to see OS5? We are old grandpas by then :/
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 103 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Santa Claus on 21-Aug-2003 11:44 GMT
Hey, what really gets me it that Microsoft if laughing at all of this... We are a small community... So once all the litigation and the truths come out... THen lets propagate the AMIGA community....

As long as it is legal... I really don't care which OS/ machine that I deliver this Christmas.... I have a AmigaOne... and it runs Debian great.

DOn't have a Pegosus yet... ANyone want to send Santa one?

Ho HO HO
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 104 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Aug-2003 11:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 99 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Spamface is best to be ignored. If you don't tease the dog with the stick the dog will continue to sleep.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 105 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Santa on 21-Aug-2003 11:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 103 (Santa Claus):
Sorry.... Hiccupppppp

I've been drinking again......

Hicuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuppppppppppppppp.

Ho HO HO
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 106 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Paul Gadd on 21-Aug-2003 11:49 GMT
Small community, untrustworthy companies, lies, scams, more lies, all Amiga/related companies MUST be ignored all together and just buy the product if you like it.

So the world may know these companies suck.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 107 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 21-Aug-2003 11:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 106 (Paul Gadd):
Hi Paul

Why haven't you moved on? If I felt the way you did Id be out of here a long time ago.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 108 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Aug-2003 12:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (Janne):
BBRV's statement is "compatible" with what was said on Amiga.com. I mean, even if they have different angles to the story, it's not contradicting each other anymore. That's my point and anyone claiming that Amiga Inc. was lying on Amiga.com was obviously incorrect.

Over and out.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 109 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 21-Aug-2003 12:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 107 (DaveP):
@DaveP

> Why haven't you moved on? If I felt the way you did Id be out of here a
> long time ago.

Probably for the same reason I'm still here: it's hard to let go.

But he's right, much of the behaviour on all sides really sucks, and some companies are beyond contempt. It doubt anyone is above criticism over the past couple of years or so.

As Ben Yoris said, the Amiga world has become a complete circus and the clowns are everywhere.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 110 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 21-Aug-2003 12:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (Bill Hoggett):
Im glad you didn't leave Bill :-)
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 111 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Paul Gadd on 21-Aug-2003 12:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 107 (DaveP):
I have moved on but as a long time Amiga user 1988 - 2001 Amithlon User 2001 - present, i am still interested in what is going on in the Amiga world even if it all bad.

This shit is getting out of hand and the more crap these companies do the more users what ditch the platform, when these companies eventually self destruct i will fully move on :o)
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 112 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Aug-2003 12:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 100 (Kronos):
Simple question: Is a beta/alpha a release or not? A simple yes or no will do.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 113 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by BrianK on 21-Aug-2003 12:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 112 (samface):
Kronos -- don't be tempted by Samwise stay away from the Darkside
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 114 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 21-Aug-2003 12:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 112 (samface):
@spammy

> Simple question: Is a beta/alpha a release or not? A simple yes or no will do.

If it's released to the public it's a release. If not, it isn't. Whether it's an aplha, beta or final version is irrelevant.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 115 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Aug-2003 12:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (Bill Hoggett):
Yep. There has never been caos like this, not even in the commodore days...
I'm starting to think that Commodore bosses were quite smart and professional when compared to current situation :P :)
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 116 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Aug-2003 12:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (samface):
>Well, it would surely be a breach of the EULA. There cannot be a breach when there hasn't been a valid contract in the first place.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 117 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Aug-2003 12:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 87 (samface):
>a public statement from the company owning the trademark Didn't they lose some trademarks and then BBRV came and tried to register it for some 300 USD?
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 118 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 21-Aug-2003 12:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 114 (Bill Hoggett):
That's a circular argument ;-)

"if it's released, it's a release".

The thing is, that effectively rules out the use of the standard three revision names for software:

Alpha
Beta
Release

I don't think an alpha/beta version is a release, no matter if it's a public download. MOS is not a commercial product, hence it makes sense to have public betas. OS4 is a commercial product, and I as a developer of commercial software agree with the decision not to hand out public betas. But neither your opinion nor mine would make much difference. The policy from them is that there will be no public beta, thus there will be no public beta. That still doesn't mean that MOS 0.1 is a release. I wouldn't say 1.4 is one either, but I might be persuaded to agree that this would be a bit harsh ;-)

I expect AOS 4.0 to be a proper release once it hits the street. But since it won't be publically downloadable I guess that won't be considered a release by some people either ;-)
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 119 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 21-Aug-2003 12:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 118 (Olegil):
Depends...

What does "Release" mean? It means you let people have it, right?

So wouldn't the difference between an "internal beta" and "beta release" be that the "beta release" was public while the "internal beta" isn't?
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 120 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by miksuh on 21-Aug-2003 12:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 114 (Bill Hoggett):
Well I think it does matter. Usually alpha and beta are development versions. Even if you make those public. Alpha and beta versions are used mainly for development and testing. Release usually mainly means the "final" version which you think is stable and ready enough for everyday use.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 121 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Aug-2003 12:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 119 (T_Bone):
There really is no any rules about that. You ofcource can say that if beta is public then it is a release, that's okay. But in professional software development release usually means the stable version. Alpha/beta are unstable development versions. But again, there is no any strict rules about that :)
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 122 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by miksuh on 21-Aug-2003 12:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 119 (T_Bone):
There really is no any rules about that. You ofcource can say that if beta is public then it is a release, that's okay. But in professional software development release usually means the stable version. Alpha/beta are unstable development versions. But again, there is no any strict rules about that :)
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 123 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Alfred Schwarz on 21-Aug-2003 12:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 119 (T_Bone):
Hm, and there there are release candidates (you can see them often in the Linux world) that can be downloaded and used, but these are not the releases themselfes - as the name already says - but they are released.

The difference is, you can release something that is not a release - or, to say it the other way around, just for the fun of it ;-) - not everything that is released is a release.

This can be quite fun, especially if you are getting drunk, the more you drink the more you will lough about it without understanding a single word, I think that's all use you can make out of this discussion :-)

Ciao, Alfred
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 124 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Aug-2003 12:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 111 (Paul Gadd):
Yes, and don't forget to thank BBRV for everything they and Genesi has done. I mean, without them we would only have delays and overly optimistic announcements. Thanks to them we now have lawsuits, rumours, FUD, lies, fragmentation, bickering, flamewars, etc. Isn't it wonderful to have these guys as a part of the community?

I'm sorry, I'm probably saying more than I should right know, but enough is enough. These guys are really starting to get to me. I simply can't stand this kind of ignorance. I mean, the guys who said "we don't need the brand" are now doing everything they can to get access to the brand through a lawsuit. Furthermore, they will also do anything to make you believe that their products are truely "Amiga" products, even promising their customers support for future Amiga products despite quite clear denial from the real owners of the brand.

They are parasites that will do ANYTHING to take advantage of Amiga Inc.'s intellectual property without having to sacrifice anything of their own, nor do they care about the community besides our wallets and desperate longing for a new Amiga. It's this kind of business practices that will most definitly kill whatever is left of the Amiga market.

So, I agree that this pathetic bickering is doing some serious damage to the potentials of the Amiga market, though I'm quite convinced of where to put the blame when everything goes belly up.

Argue whatever you like, this is my story and I'm sticking to it.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 125 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Tigger on 21-Aug-2003 12:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (tonya):
tigger: maybe u should READ the lines and not between em?

I think you should perhaps follow your own advice.

Bill McEwen said this:
"I should also like to remind the community, and those users of the Amiga Operating System, that the End User License Agreement clearly states that the license for use is only valid, on Amiga branded machines. Therefore if the Amiga operating system is being used on a non-Amiga branded machine the use would be prohibited."

Note McEwen says Amiga branded Machines. I'm sorry but no x86 box is an Amiga Branded machine, though it is quite legal to run Amiga Forever software and 3.5 & or 3.9 on an x86 box. In addition, the Draco license allowed it to run 3.1 as well as future versions of the Amiga OS, and again not an Amiga Branded Box. If you are going to argue with me, at least make a valid point. Now as too the lawsuit, I've made my point on AW.net on that issue. What is McEwen saying?? That the lawsuit is still ongoing??
-Tig
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 126 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 21-Aug-2003 13:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 121 (Anonymous):
But MOS 0.4 was stable :-)
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 127 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 21-Aug-2003 13:18 GMT
Anyway, what do you think: Was there a deal regarding DE for Pegasos? Because: "The facts are that the legal process is continuing, we have not lost and we have not agreed to port AmigaDE to Pegasos." Looks like there *was* a deal but not anymore (from AI view of point).
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 128 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 21-Aug-2003 13:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 125 (Tigger):
@Tigger

> Note McEwen says Amiga branded Machines. I'm sorry but no x86 box is an
> Amiga Branded machine, though it is quite legal to run Amiga Forever
> software and 3.5 & or 3.9 on an x86 box.

Not according to the EULA it isn't. In those countries where the EULA is enforceable you are breaking the EULA by running OS 3.5 or 3.9 on Amiga Forever. Amiga Forever is only licensed for AmigaOS 3.1 and previous.

The copy of AmigaOS 3.9 included in AmigaOS XL (AmigaXL and Amithlon) actually has a modified EULA which removes the condition included in the stand-alone AmigaOS distributions of 3.5 and 3.9.

Considering that Bill Buck was talking about OS 3.5 and 3.9, the question of the EULA would be a valid one.

However, bear in mind that the disputed contract would allow Genesi to use the Amiga brand if AmigaDE is ported to run on the Pegasos, so if the contract is confirmed as valid in court and AmigaDE is ported, one could claim that this would also satisfy the EULA of AmigaOS 3.5 and 3.9.

Of course, the final decision regarding the validity of said contract is still to be made by the courts.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 129 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 21-Aug-2003 13:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 115 (Anonymous):
"Yep. There has never been chaos like this, not even in the commodore days..."

There were no web forums in the Commodore days. There was just as much chaos inside the company - otherwise it would not have gone bust. It just didn't show on the outside as much as it does now.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 130 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 21-Aug-2003 13:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 127 (itix):
@itix

> Anyway, what do you think: Was there a deal regarding DE for Pegasos?
>
> Because: "The facts are that the legal process is continuing, we have
> not lost and we have not agreed to port AmigaDE to Pegasos."
>
> Looks like there *was* a deal but not anymore (from AI view of point).

No, there was a deal to license a port of AmigaDE to a Thendic device prior to their association with the Pegasos, MorphOS and bPlan. Bill Buck claims that the contract and the license are fully transferrable to the current Genesi concern, and that Amiga Inc are obliged to provide a port to their system. Amiga Inc dispute this and claim that the license and contract were limited to a specific device and not transferrable to Genesi and all their products.

So, there never was a deal to port AmigaDE to Pegasos as such.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 131 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Neko on 21-Aug-2003 13:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 130 (Bill Hoggett):
EVERYONE!

http://www.btinternet.com/%7Epir8/arnie/sounds/whining.wav
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 132 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by terminills on 21-Aug-2003 13:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 131 (Neko):
@neko

LOL :)
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 133 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 21-Aug-2003 13:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 97 (samface):
Ralph Schmidt brought us AmigaOS on PPC in 2000, period.
Anyone could use it and I did until I got my Pegasos.

The "delivery" word is what you have chosen to argue over and over on facts.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 134 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by The REAL DanDude on 21-Aug-2003 14:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Amon_Re):
LOLOLOLOLOL...
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 135 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by The REAL DanDude on 21-Aug-2003 14:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Lucas):
Well, dude, as of today, I completely lost ===ALL=== hope and interest in MorphOS and Pegasos. And, I won't comment any more on that.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 136 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by The REAL DanDude on 21-Aug-2003 14:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Peter Marlow):
eeeehhhhh...aren't they under contract???
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 137 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by The REAL DanDude on 21-Aug-2003 14:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Pete):
Whoa....uh, huh-huh-huh...
Settle down, Beavis.
Swallow a chill pill or something. Uh, huh-huh-huh.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 138 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by The REAL DanDude on 21-Aug-2003 14:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (AmigaFan):
now, THERE'S a true fan!!!

Go, dude, go!! : )
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 139 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Analnymous on 21-Aug-2003 14:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
> The 3.5 registration card even has a nice "UAE" option in the registration card...

I'm looking at my 3.5 registration card here now and... well, I don't see option for UAE. I bought mine directly from Haage & Partner in october 1999.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 140 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by The REAL DanDude on 21-Aug-2003 14:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 115 (Anonymous):
Ya think??? : P
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 141 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by The REAL DanDude on 21-Aug-2003 14:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 131 (Neko):
That didn't even last 2 seconds!

I got something better, and it's not for children...so listen at your own risk.
http://dandudestuff.dyndns.org/mad2.wav

Disclaimer: I don't promote or condone these actions. So, there!
(watch this post get deleted in seconds...)
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 142 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 21-Aug-2003 14:43 GMT
oh but 90% of the Amiga Fanbase thinks that

Apple Macintosh's EULA allowing only to run on Apple branded hardware can be ignored in 'their' country.

So obviously they also think that the Amiga EULA is worthless, unenforceable, and Bill McEwen's statements can be ignored. This is Amiga's own fanbase!

It's ashame when you build a business plan on the support of pirates and no-nothing wannabe's....like...ok I can't say who, or it would be a personal attack...but the EULA ignoring pirates have made an @ss of themeselves enough, you know who they are.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 143 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Aug-2003 14:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 97 (samface):
pegasoz suX0rz!!!!!!!!!1~~~~~~~ OLOLOLOLO~~~~ amig4 RXoOrs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111~ lololoololo..
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 144 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Rich Woods on 21-Aug-2003 14:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 131 (Neko):
Posted by Neko (Trusted user) on 21-Aug-2003 15:47:02

In Reply to Comment 130:
EVERYONE!

http://www.btinternet.com/%7Epir8/arnie/sounds/whining.wav

------------------------
http://www.merlancia.us/sounds/doubletalk.wav


(Lots of wav's on merlancia.us - all over the place.)
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 145 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Rich Woods on 21-Aug-2003 15:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 125 (Tigger):
Posted by Tigger (143.116.116.200) on 21-Aug-2003 14:56:31

In Reply to Comment 28:
tigger: maybe u should READ the lines and not between em?

. What is McEwen saying?? That the lawsuit is still ongoing??
-Tig

-----------------
I just got off the phone with Judge Lasnik's court clerk - she looked at the judicial files in the JUDGE'S chambers and the last entry is the April 3rd entry setting case dates.

http://www.merlancia.us/amigaauction/courtdatedocs.pdf


So there is NOTHING filed since then.

Of course a settlement by the attorney('s) - or Richard Rodgers and whomever billyboy is using (even if himself) is possible and the agreement has not yet reached the courthouse and the judge. This would only be a matter of a couple days at most.

So as of Thursday, 6/21/03 at approx 10:00 AM AZ time that is the story.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 146 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by BrianK on 21-Aug-2003 15:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 142 (MarkTime):
Breaking a EULA and being a pirate are not the same thing.

Case 1:If I buy software, let's say AmigaOS3.9. Let's assume the EULA, it may or may not I'm at work and I don't have the EULA at hand, states that 3.9 cannot be run on hardware other then Amiga, Inc. approved platforms. Then I run it on PegasOS hardware. I would be in violation of the EULA agreement.

Case 2: I don't buy AmigaOS3.9. Instead I copy it from another source. Amiga Inc. in no way receives income from my actions. I've an illegal copy of the program. Assuming I install and run the OS from any platform it's illegally obtained and theft. Thus, I'd be a pirate.

Case 1: EULA Agreement breaker
Case 2: Software Pirate

They're not the same. EULA Agreement breaker breaks the EULA terms. The pirate breaks federal law concerning copywrite and product protections.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 147 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 21-Aug-2003 15:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 145 (Rich Woods):
@Rich

You mean 8/21/03, I hope...

Anyway, since the "deal" was supposed to have been done a couple of weeks ago, you'd have though that news of it would have reached the court clerk by now.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 148 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by smithy on 21-Aug-2003 15:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (samface):
>Dismissing everything they say because they once upon a time stated inaccurate
>estimates of product delivery is not only short-sighted but arrogant

It's not just missing a few deadlines though, is it? Wasn't it only a few months before OS4 was supposed to be released in November 2001 that Amiga Inc were saying everything was on schedule - even though, at the time nobody, not H&P or Amiga Inc, were doing any work on it! Is that just an innaccurate deadline? Or maybe Amiga Inc didn't know nobody was working on OS4??
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 149 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 21-Aug-2003 15:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 139 (Analnymous):
Got mine from KDH and it does. Wierd.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 150 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by smithy on 21-Aug-2003 15:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 90 (Bill Hoggett):
>The only safe thing to to in the current climate is believe NO ONE.

I agree. But it is amusing watching the antics. There's much else to do in the Amiga community.
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