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[News] Thendic-FranceANN.lu
Posted on 17-Nov-2003 19:18 GMT by bbrv161 comments
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At today's hearing of the Tribunal of Commerce in Paris a judgment was rendered declaring Pretory, S.A. in bankruptcy and appointing a receiver. The process finally will now begin to transfer Thendic-France's assets to Genesi SARL. Our situation with Pretory S.A. has been a long and difficult one. In all matters we have cooperated with the French Government and agreed to close the Company in a coordinated and proper manner. Time will demonstrate that we have behaved properly and legally in all respects as shareholders and managers. In no way will these matters effect Genesi. Finally, we are personally free to devote the time and resources we want to the Genesi. Sincerely, Raquel and Bill
Thendic-France : Comment 101 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 19-Nov-2003 08:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 97 (gary_c):
Gary

Im going to meander a bit before getting to the point, but it will be worth the winding road I promise.

For a few days now we have been testing out the FreeCiv service on amigaworld.net and it has been going well, we have skilled gamers running on all platforms including AmigaOS, MorphOS, QNX, Linux and Windows joining in and focussing on the game and cracking a few jokes. Its been fun and in the spirit of co-operation you would not really know who was "blue" or "red" or any of that tedious crap. "Red" and "Blue" people alike chipping in to get the server running smoothly and giving advice on game settings. Lovely. Like it /used/ to be.

Last night it all changed - but only for a short while.

We had one player who joined, who shall remain nameless join and kept spamming the FreeCiv party line with "DaveP The Red Troll". Then proceeded to make tedious partisan remark after remark.

If I was the censorship advocate that people make me out to be or the ogre that some ( yes I did get logs of that - blush away J ;-) ) make me out to be then I would have disconnected him from the game as the server admin immediately.

He had several warnings and eventually settled down like the rest of the players to discussing the game only. But before this happenned one player who would be considered his political bedfellow also piped in and told him to make it about the game only. The game proceeded till we had a server hiccup ( brought on by running log analysis concurrently with the game - race condition don't do it prospective FreeCiv server admins! ) and he never rejoined.

OK, so where are we now?

Yes I have recieved personal correspondance from Bill Buck recently and in the distant past, some intended to resolve differences, some complaining about the tone I adopted on some posting ( mostly it comes down to a misunderstanding and poor wording ). I also recieved an invitation to contribute to a debate on morphos-news.de with two objectives stated in the mail:

1. Drown out a bottom feeder ( troll ).
2. Give input on the subject.

Given (1) was in fact a total troll I had no problem with doing the drowning out.

Ok so now where are we? Ok lets move on to the subject of organised postings.

Its no secret ( I have logs and Im sure many others do ) that IRC chatrooms are where people discuss stuff, let off steam and sometimes discuss whether or not something should be posted. It is also a place where breaking stories are discussed and what the reaction will be.

Email is used for this also.

I believe that it is entirely possible ( partly based on what I saw in part 1 of this monologue ) that a lot of very juvenile people decide to take it on themselves to inform each other about debates that are not going their way and call on assistance in ways that range from harmless to well, organised spammage. I do not think that they need any encouragement from "on high" in the slightest.

I also think that there are a reasonable number of level headed people that see this going on and don't really think much of it who sometimes may comment to try and let them know its really quite sad. I base this partly on what I saw in part 1 last night.

The fact is, I come back to something I said over a year ago, the tents are pitched VERY close to each other and there are a lot of "kiddies" ( mental age ) in the tents who think it is amusing to get up to all sorts of jolly japes and "piss" in other tents. Stir the shit. Troll. Flamebait in an organised way. Also same "kiddies" go around the net on chatrooms and spread bullshit stories about other people. As a victim of more than one of those stories ( that I was responsible for organising an exodus from Amiga.org ) and even impersonations I don't find them funny when perpetrated by either side.

So yes, I can confirm what Gary sayes and add to it as I have done above. But I can also point out that as I saw last night, peer pressure is the key to getting these little pricks in line, sorted out so that we can help each other out, discuss and debate civilly and sure lose tempers once in a while but as soon as its turned into a schoolyard chant - game over.

Perhaps once these people that behave like that guy did last night realise how lowered in respect they make themselves look when they do that, get a bit embarassed when they recall it and this stops them doing it themselves.

Gary, I was also impressed to hear your admission that the idea had been floated about once before. This is good because I have been sent, in the past, copies of correspondance in the past that contained a similar dialogue to that you describe.

I think thats everything about straight now.

OK?
Thendic-France : Comment 102 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 19-Nov-2003 09:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (DaveP):
Oh and to add to this, one of the "jolly japes" which may or may not be "camp" related seems to be to attempt DoS attacks on amigaworld.net servers and services.

Real mature, if you don't like amigaworld.net just don't visit it.
Thendic-France : Comment 103 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 19-Nov-2003 10:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 92 (Matt Parsons):
That's also a possibility ;)

Cheers
Thendic-France : Comment 104 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 19-Nov-2003 10:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (bbrv):
@all after BB desclarations

>Pretory is being closed because of a very specific reason, which will not be >public for some time, here, or in the French Press. We have decided to publish >a book though...;-) It should be ready in a year. Check back then.

Bill Bucks states this. The French press accusates Bill Buck directly.
If I take not of all lies I heard from BB month (Gary Hare, AmigaDE Ported for the two most famous) I could told myself ok, these newswriters are writting silly things....But the facts are there, I read so many lies from Bill Buck That I can't agree with he's statements! So once again it seems Bill Buck is not telling the thruth or is only telling a part of the truth. I may be wrong, but if I am wrong that means every serious French newspaper are telling lies, while BB tells the truth....It's yours to see!
And at last, when Bill says the terms of the accusations of French authorities
wil not be made public it's false, just because all these articles are here to tell us about. Monkey business, fraud, false bodyguards. They may be others "non public" affairs not reported in newswriters articles.

I told myself I'd rather prefer agreeing with the french press and articles like those on liberation that is a real serious newpaper)

This one is probably the most serious:
http://www.liberation.com/page.php?Article=145524

On this link, he's brother is directly accusated of malversation and monkey business:
http://www.humanite.presse.fr/journal/2003-04-15/2003-04-15-370369

This one accusate directly Bill Buck as a monkey business usual, and having employed unqualified persons (like other articles does) in order to "do the security in aiports"
http://securite3.monblogue.com/commentaires/securite3/10423

Rich Woods, hey, come in France and reveal the thruth?
Thendic-France : Comment 105 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 19-Nov-2003 11:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 104 (Anonymous):
First one does not open at all.. Apparently it needs some kind of registration and payment for being able to read. And translation would be nice to big majority of uswho can't read French.
Thendic-France : Comment 106 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 19-Nov-2003 11:20 GMT
Hi Anonymous 195.212.190.98, you are no better than the myterious sources being quoted for those articles.

As you have piled all these issues into one heap, let's pull it apart and get it all thrown into the washing machine...

1. Garry Hare did carry a business card that indicated he was the CEO and Chairman of Amiga Inc. He gave the card to many people. We even spoke to him a couple of times. He investigated the situation and decided he did not want to be involved. Did you miss the acknowledgment that finally came from Fleecy?

2. Tao has ported Intent to PowerPC. If the decision this week is favorable on the Summary Judgment against Amiga we will go to Tao and ask them if they are interested. Frankly, the AmigaDE part seems to exist in name only. But, we will know for certain soon.

3. Nearly, all the things mentioned in terms of Pretory SA in the articles are true, which is why we fired the French manager. Keep in mind that we were shareholders and had little if anything to do with this day to day business. The really sad part about all this is that there were MANY employees that were exceptionally good and hard working people.

If you can find the courage to reveal your identity and email us personally we will be happy to continue this discussion directly. In the meanwhile, your post in light of everything else mentioned and discussed in this thread is simply another attempt to throw gas on a fire that is not burning -- not here and not in France. Now into the dryer! You are all washed up!

R&B
Thendic-France : Comment 107 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 19-Nov-2003 11:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 105 (JoannaK):
And I like a translation of comment 104 also. Made my eyes hurt. Thanks.
Thendic-France : Comment 108 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 19-Nov-2003 11:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (bbrv):
A book? I hate to read! I'll buy the Cliff Notes:-)
Thendic-France : Comment 109 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Oppressor on 19-Nov-2003 11:31 GMT
Did you notice that bbrv keep forgetting to add a smiley at the end of their
posts lately? Monkey business, well, this finally makes some sense. Who
needs a profitable business when you have news forums for fun and "action"
[A. Schwarzenegger].
Thendic-France : Comment 110 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Paul H on 19-Nov-2003 11:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 106 (bbrv):
I think we need some good translations of those documents. All I got out of a Babel Fish translation was somehow Bill Buck has something to do with the FBI! :)
Thendic-France : Comment 111 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 19-Nov-2003 11:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 99 (Anonymous):
> I guess you'll sell 600 copies of the book, the first few will have a weak
>binding and fall apart at the seams.

Midly humorous. I guess the Amiga Inc book will sell 1000 copies online, but not one will ever ship but the publisher will promise RSN from the doorsteps of courthouses?
Thendic-France : Comment 112 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 19-Nov-2003 11:55 GMT
Yes Paul, sure...and here we are dropping off the last pile of secret messages:

http://www.pegasosppc.com/images.php?f=image&id=881

Is that OK, Oppressor?! :-D

R&B
Thendic-France : Comment 113 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Oppressor on 19-Nov-2003 12:06 GMT
Hi bbrv,

much better! But what's there to see on that picture? Apparently there
must be something, but it's disguised by two clerks or tourists :)
Thendic-France : Comment 114 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 19-Nov-2003 12:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 104 (Anonymous):
"I told myself I'd rather prefer agreeing with the french press and articles like those on liberation that is a real serious newpaper)"

This is ridiculous as the french press see things from different perspective depending if the newspaper is left wing or right wing directed.

Liberation is a French left wing newspaper. When someone writes an article about "Americans" in such a newspaper you know you have to interpret what you read. Do you really think Bill is a FBI agent who lives in Paris and runs Genesi as a cover ?

The story of the "Americans" (Raquel is not American BTW) coming to France and promising to the "little innocent french guy" to be rich is something that really suits a left wing newspaper.
Thendic-France : Comment 115 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 19-Nov-2003 12:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 113 (Oppressor):
Hah!

Tourists?!

You try to get in there.

;-)
Thendic-France : Comment 116 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 19-Nov-2003 12:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 114 (Christophe Decanini):
Thanks Christophe, we might point out that the other papers were the Humanite and Le Canard
Echaine. :-/ All newspapers in France have a strong political tendency. The stories may be about Pretory on the surface, but the implications are 100% political.

Thanks also for reminding everyone Raquel is French!

Bill
Thendic-France : Comment 117 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Damien Naviliat on 19-Nov-2003 12:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 106 (bbrv):
Hello guys

@all
BBRV recieved this reply directly from my personnal email, for spam reasons, I don't want my email to be spread around the net.

Hell Bill,

>Hi Anonymous 195.212.190.98, you are no better than the myterious sources >being quoted for those articles.

How well, having a pseudo isn't usefull too to know who am I, so here is my real name.
The sources of those articles aren't mysterious. Humanité is a newspaper that exists since so many years, liberation too. Those two newspapers are near 75years old. A you say in the end of your reply, those accusations are true and not mysterious (it's you that told this).


>1. Garry Hare did carry a business card that indicated he was the CEO and >Chairman of Amiga Inc. He gave the card to many people. We even spoke to him a >couple of times. He investigated the situation and decided he did not want to >be involved. Did you miss the acknowledgment that finally came from Fleecy?

Well again it's your declaration.

Don't try to change the reality about what Fleecy said, he never stated that this one was the CEO, just told about a guy from their investors that came to evaluate the situation. Have you a link to such a declaration Fleecy?

You can pretend what you like about business cards and so on, I know who is Gary Hare and what it does. I won't talk about this publicly just because there are lawsuits on the run.

>2. Tao has ported Intent to PowerPC. If the decision this week is favorable on >the Summary Judgment against Amiga we will go to Tao and ask them if they are >interested. Frankly, the AmigaDE part seems to exist in name only. But, we >will know for certain soon.

Well, here I go.

When you talk about something that exist or don't exist, you have to know what you are talking about Bill. As A regular DE developer I know what is or isn't AmigaDE. And this is more than you seems to think about (or probably more than you "pretend" to think, because bringing down all that is Amiga Inc is good for you, since this is business). I take, and I'm shure every DE developer too, take this as a personnal attack. We, DE developers, have worked harder and harder to bring chances for this product to have a life. Talking about DE that don't exist is so a sign of deny for all work done by the developers community.

I don't mean here that you are talking specially for DE developers, but talking about a product that don't exist simply alienate all the work done by DE developers. But in real, they (DE developers) have achieved an enormous amount of work for the DE and when you pretend this product don't exists, you pretend every person of this developper community who work hundreds and hundreds of hours are doing nothing.

Since you are bringing a product on the market you know that developing new concepts (when not copying that already exists) is long and hard to do. Don't expect to have the DE finished before it is. I remind you (it seems you're interested by TAO)that intent is just a basic Os, and I wouldn't say it's an Os, it's a minimum Os, really efficiant even on poor hardware.

For comparisons, in times, when pegasos was in development and that no one can see the product, I never heard Amiga (or not me) telling that the pegasos is a product that don't exist ok? We all know you hate Amiga Inc team (I even have real proofs about this, real proofs on how you can be when you hate someone), I don't like you due to your way to do business. I or even Amiga haven't never, never criticized the quality/existance MOS nor Pegasos ok? THIS is the start of real business, it's amazing to act this way. Another point is that it's easy to criticize works done when you sell a product that has started to be developed many years before os4/DE/amigaone.



The DE itslef is more than was pretent on this post. Having such sentences are spreading false informations, false debates, and you don't want that is it, 'cause you're a good and professional business man is it?
If you really reply honnestly don't pretend wrong things, specially when you know their wrong! Act like this, and there will never be another guy like me to pretent you tell lies Bill!


>3. Nearly, all the things mentioned in terms of Pretory SA in the articles are >true, which is why we fired the French manager. Keep in mind that we were >shareholders and had little if anything to do with this day to day business. >The really sad part about all this is that there were MANY employees that were >exceptionally good and hard working people.

I think that when you don't talk about Amiga, you can be honnest. I trust you on this point, even if the French justice is completely corrupted (and I saw in the TV journal your "formidable" machines that will detect every man who smoked a joint in airport, I asked myself if there's a reason why you don't have problems personnaly with justice, maybe because our government "needs" those machines, so it needs you, but enough, I told I trust you on this point, but it's an idea I had before your reply...

>If you can find the courage to reveal your identity and email us personally we >will be happy to continue this discussion directly. In the meanwhile, your >post in light of everything else mentioned and discussed in this thread is >simply another attempt to throw gas on a fire that is not burning -- not here >and not in France. Now into the dryer! You are all washed up!

Easy for you. You like, and you're often there, concilient and friendly, when things are defavorable to Amiga Inc. In the other way, you are accusating every persons who dislikes your point of view of trolling, throwing gaz on fire of things like that. Did you realize this?

Last thing, on the last topic about thendic-amiga, I have posted 3 links that reveal the pletory story (the mamous mysterious sources you told about).
This post has been deleted (or I don't saw him anymore) "due to policy reasons".

The next day, there is a topic about the pletory situation... You are not the admin of this site but this seems strange top me.

Best Regards.
Damien.
Thendic-France : Comment 118 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Damien Naviliat on 19-Nov-2003 13:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (Damien Naviliat):
>I think we need some good translations of those documents. All I got out of a >Babel Fish translation was somehow Bill Buck has something to do with the >
>FBI! :)

Sorry, I'm not easy enough to translate this in correct english.
Maybe someone else....
Thendic-France : Comment 119 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Nowee on 19-Nov-2003 13:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 118 (Damien Naviliat):
Oh, come on guys, you're growing paranoid. I mean, can't we just wait
and see ?
Thendic-France : Comment 120 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Damien Naviliat on 19-Nov-2003 13:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 118 (Damien Naviliat):
>Thanks Christophe, we might point out that the other papers were the Humanite >and Le Canard
>Echaine. :-/ All newspapers in France have a strong political tendency. The >stories may be about Pretory on the surface, but the implications are 100% >political.

Don't compare liberation (a real newspaper) with "le canard enchaine" who is a satirical one. Again you mix things that don't are the same.
I'll pass your statements to those magazines, they will see what they think about this!

"Liberation" is as regular and serious that "le monde". If it wasn't, France2 wouldn't have relayed the information!
Thendic-France : Comment 121 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 19-Nov-2003 13:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (Damien Naviliat):
> Last thing, on the last topic about thendic-amiga, I have posted 3 links that
> reveal the pletory story (the mamous mysterious sources you told about).
> This post has been deleted (or I don't saw him anymore) "due to policy
> reasons".

I'm not sure (language/understanding) what "last topic" you are referring to, but the 3 links are available in comment 46 in this very thread. If you think they were removed in the past (I can't check right now), maybe that was because they were added as comment to an "unmoderated" item that was subsequently removed...
Thendic-France : Comment 122 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Damien Naviliat on 19-Nov-2003 13:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 121 (Christian Kemp):
>I'm not sure (language/understanding) what "last topic" you are referring to, >but the 3 links are available in comment 46 in this very thread. If you think >they were removed in the past (I can't check right now), maybe that was >ecause they were added as comment to an "unmoderated" item that was >subsequently removed...
thx for this clarification
Thendic-France : Comment 123 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Lennart Fridén on 19-Nov-2003 14:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (samface):
"Is Bill Buck the official Amiga business undertaker or something? ;-)"

LOL! :-D
Thendic-France : Comment 124 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 19-Nov-2003 14:58 GMT
Hi Damien, you did send your email to our personal email address just like everyone else can. Even though you have decided to not allow others to communicate directly with you, you have at least decided to put a name to your post. Thank you. It is nice to know now that you are the same person who did this in March. Remember that discussion? :-)

We are not really sure why you feel compelled to do this or why we feel compelled to answer. Perhaps, it is because in France as we told a Liberation journalist this morning:

Dear XXXXXXXXXX, <snip> The problem is that EVEN our French friends do not trust the French media and feel that you would distort the information for your purposes. The issues here are much bigger than Pretory. You know that. As such this matter cannot be settled in the Press. This has and will become a "political" matter. Unfortunately, to continue to keep the business running was to fight against a system that would not allow us to survive once we made the changes to run the Company properly and in a legally correct manner.

I will say this -- there were many outstanding employees in Pretory. They worked hard and they performed their duties well. They do not deserve what has happened to them. A few have taken from all. I believe in the French Republic and I believe through the legal process that the full details of this matter will be ultimately exposed and a proper accounting and judgment will be rendered.

How I wish I could tell you more! You are a persistent guy.

Sincerely,

Bill

===========

We hope Damien that reading this email will somehow make you feel vindicated. How is that for disclosure!? You cannot say we are not "open." :-)

On to your other comments...

1. About Garry Hare -- you are seriously misinformed. Everything we ever said about Garry Hare was 100% correct. Read the trail of announcements/discussion from the other "side" if you doubt that. Further, there are absolutely no lawsuits that involve Garry Hare. Garry Hare is a professional, a nice person and a smart guy. Further, there are no other lawsuits that involve us and Amiga Inc. other than the one that *may* or may not be settled this week. If fact, this is the only lawsuit that we are involved in today outside of France (in the WHOLE world!). The ones we have filed in France concern the affairs of Pretory. Somebody is feeding you line...

2. Intent does exist. It is a very interesting product and Tao is a capable and interesting Company. We hope to be having a nice chat with Francis Charig soon. What Amiga DE is on top of Intent? We do not know. It seems you have first hand experience. Great! The Pegasos may be the first commercial platform that bundles Amiga DE. Would you like to continue to develop for it? We are making a handheld of the Pegasos. If you think about the Pegasos as a development machine and the multiple operating systems running on it there may actually be a future for the effort expended to date. We hope so.

3. You posted the same link months ago. You never came by to visit us and only now you have posted your name. You sound like a decent guy at heart, but you have listened and believed too many rumors about us. Judge us by what we have done and by what we do. In a matter such as Pretory only the legal system of the French Government has a chance to understand and expose the truth about all this. Why not give you heart a rest and use your head? There is no smoking gun here.

Actually, Le Canard Echaine is pretty funny sometimes, forgetting it's social far left leaning tendencies. There were a couple of other articles too, including one in the Parisian, but it was brief and the focus was Air France.

Finally, in response to your second email we just received, please read Comment #88 and others above. Amiga Inc. did to itself what could not be done by another.

Sincerely, and we hope in conclusion for now,
R&B

:-)
Thendic-France : Comment 125 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 19-Nov-2003 15:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 124 (bbrv):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
We are making a handheld of the Pegasos.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Ok, now you have my undivided attention!!

Is this to be hardware compatible with the Pegasos (or is it Pegasos by name only)? I ask since obviously a powerful hand held AROS device is something that is top on my list of things to see before I die (which could be in the next few hours), so anything that makes that more possible would be brilliant...
Thendic-France : Comment 126 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 19-Nov-2003 15:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 125 (Matt Parsons):
PocketPC devices are in the shops.
Thendic-France : Comment 127 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 19-Nov-2003 15:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 126 (DaveP):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
PocketPC devices are in the shops.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Yes, but no work has been done to port AROS to the Xscale, but it has been ported to the PPC...
Thendic-France : Comment 128 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 19-Nov-2003 15:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 126 (DaveP):
Could we start a different thread about the handheld Pegasos?!

:-)
Thendic-France : Comment 129 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 19-Nov-2003 15:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 128 (bbrv):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Could we start a different thread about the handheld Pegasos?!
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Go on then!
Thendic-France : Comment 130 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Damien Naviliat on 19-Nov-2003 15:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 124 (bbrv):
>Hi Damien, you did send your email to our personal email address just like >everyone else can. Even though you have decided to not allow others to >communicate directly with you, you have at least decided to put a name to your >post. Thank you. It is nice to know now that you are the same person who did >this in March. Remember that discussion? :-)

The forums are here, that's their reason to be.So everyone can communicate with me. I read, even if I don't reply, cause too busy.I am working 15 hours a day so have no time to replay to dozen of people ok or not with me. Have had some time today. That's all.

I remember some discutions, but still you have a good memory since I rarely come here or in other places, still it seems you ear everything that happens in the Amiga community.


>How I wish I could tell you more! You are a persistent guy.
Yes it is.

>1. About Garry Hare -- you are seriously misinformed. Everything we ever said >about Garry Hare was 100% correct. Read the trail of announcements/discussion >from the other "side" if you doubt that. Further, there are absolutely no >lawsuits that involve Garry Hare. Garry Hare is a professional, a nice person >and a smart guy. Further, there are no other lawsuits that involve us and >Amiga Inc. other than the one that *may* or may not be settled this week. If >fact, this is the only lawsuit that we are involved in today outside of France >(in the WHOLE world!). The ones we have filed in France concern the affairs of >Pretory. Somebody is feeding you line...

Again, I would not debate about this point. This is Amiga that speaks about what concerns Amiga. I know some points, you have had other points, all of us have a part of the story. But I don't want to get deeper in this, since this point concerns Amiga itself, and I am just a developer, not Amiga.


>2. Intent does exist. It is a very interesting product and Tao is a capable >and interesting Company. We hope to be having a nice chat with Francis Charig >soon. What Amiga DE is on top of Intent? We do not know. It seems you have >first hand experience. Great! The Pegasos may be the first commercial platform >that bundles Amiga DE. Would you like to continue to develop for it? We are >making a handheld of the Pegasos. If you think about the Pegasos as a >development machine and the multiple operating systems running on it there may >actually be a future for the effort expended to date. We hope so.

I am developing for AmigaDE. Whoever is the curstomer I am doing some AmigaDE.
Amiga never told to it's developers to have an antigensi policy. That's all I can say. This was too false when you stated the DE is in way to be ported on Mos. This is difficult to understand exactly where you go.


>3. You posted the same link months ago. You never came by to visit us and only >now you have posted your name. You sound like a decent guy at heart, but you >have listened and believed too many rumors about us. Judge us by what we have >done and by what we do. In a matter such as Pretory only the legal system of >the French Government has a chance to understand and expose the truth about >all this. Why not give you heart a rest and use your head? There is no smoking >gun here.

Well, I met you in alchimie2, you don't remember me me because I don't given you my name (you don't asked for it). Bad impressions started since the day I met you (for personnal reasons). Sio yes, I met you! (and all the guys you came with).
Unfortunately many others declarations from you have made this impression a real feeling (this is personnal).
So yes I saw, the_peg_one, yes i USED it in the alchemy and heard all your discutions.


>Actually, Le Canard Echaine is pretty funny sometimes, forgetting it's social >far left leaning tendencies. There were a couple of other articles too, >including one in the Parisian, but it was brief and the focus was Air France.

Le Canard is a satyrical, anarchist newspaper.


>Finally, in response to your second email we just received, please read >Comment #88 and others above. Amiga Inc. did to itself what could not be done >by another.

You know what make me nervous, it's telling that the DE is nothing. And again the discution takes a turn of amiga/thendic war.

Everytime I feel the work I (or other DE developers) is told to be nothing or bad or even vaporware, I'll be here to post links.
If you start to consider the DE developers correctly, you will have my respect.
Each time you say something like this, I count the number of hours you are destroying when you say things like this!
Thendic-France : Comment 131 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 19-Nov-2003 15:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 130 (Damien Naviliat):
Damien Naviliat,

When you say 'DE devlopers' are you talking of developers of apps? Anyway, I am certain there is no disrespect of DEVELOPERS intended.
Thendic-France : Comment 132 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 19-Nov-2003 15:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 130 (Damien Naviliat):
Damien, nous ne nous comprenons pas. Essayons une autre fois.

Did you go to Alchimie this year? There were 50 Pegasos machines there, far outnumbering any other platform present.

Next time we meet, please shake hands with me, look me in the eye and tell me who you are.

:-)

R&B
Thendic-France : Comment 133 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 19-Nov-2003 16:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 132 (bbrv):
If you are refering to MorphOS-news numbers (10 AmigaOnes, 50 Pegasos), the person who evaluated these numbers and communicated them to the MorphOS-news moderator obviously doubled the real figures both for the AmigaOne and Pegasos numbers. Maybe he had to much wine ;)
Adam counted only 3 Pegasos that were not from APS.
Thendic-France : Comment 134 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 19-Nov-2003 16:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 133 (Christophe Decanini):
How many were from APS? Guess we better shoot the scout! :-)
Thendic-France : Comment 135 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 19-Nov-2003 16:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 130 (Damien Naviliat):
I have to say that at the moment, we don't know anywhere near the full story
and as we have seen stories can be misreported, editorialised and exaggerated - after all newspapers are printed to sell newspapers.

Bearing this in mind unless there is full disclosure then this is nothing more than "interesting" and may or may not influence people in the marketplace depending on how they interpret the facts.

To continue to discuss without adding to knowledge ( and I say you have added to general knowledge ) it seems to be at best to get us nowhere and at worst to be counterproductive.

I get the same feeling reading this thread as I do when reading a Rich Woods ( or now Samface ) Amiga Inc vs Thendic ANN thread.

Dave.
Thendic-France : Comment 136 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 19-Nov-2003 16:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 134 (bbrv):
Adam counted 20 Pegasos (17 from APS) and 4 amigaones.
There may have been more/less machines at different times (The show lasted 3 days).
Thendic-France : Comment 137 of 161ANN.lu
In reply to Comment 114 (Christophe Decanini):
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: insult
Thendic-France : Comment 138 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Ann on 19-Nov-2003 21:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 104 (Anonymous):
"This one accusate directly Bill Buck as a monkey business usual, and having employed unqualified persons (like other articles does) in order to "do the security in aiports"
http://securite3.monblogue.com/commentaires/securite3/10423

Rich Woods, hey, come in France and reveal the thruth? "

"Told you I did" --- Yoda

Rich was researching the wrong people and company
Thendic-France : Comment 139 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Ann on 19-Nov-2003 21:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (bbrv):
"Thanks Christophe, we might point out that the other papers were the Humanite and Le Canard
Echaine. :-/ All newspapers in France have a strong political tendency. The stories may be about Pretory on the surface, but the implications are 100% political.

Thanks also for reminding everyone Raquel is French!"

Maybe you could post an english version for us all to read. It is news ya know!
Thendic-France : Comment 140 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 19-Nov-2003 21:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 132 (bbrv):
If i greet you the next time i see you at a show, will you buy me a beer? :)

The point that Damian is trying to make, i think, is that he feels you are disrespectfull towards the people working on DE/Apps for the DE.

As we both know you've been rather negative about the DE in the past, and some comments inhere also minimises it, and he, as being a DE developer, feels attacked by such statements.

Now i'll go read those articles & see if i can summerise them.

Cheers
Thendic-France : Comment 141 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Ann on 19-Nov-2003 21:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 132 (bbrv):
"Damien, nous ne nous comprenons pas. Essayons une autre fois.

Did you go to Alchimie this year? There were 50 Pegasos machines there, far outnumbering any other platform present.

Next time we meet, please shake hands with me, look me in the eye and tell me who you are.

:-)

R&B"

But make sure to hide ur wallet before you go! HEhehhe
Thendic-France : Comment 142 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 19-Nov-2003 22:10 GMT
Summerised:
"http://www.liberation.com/page.php?Article=145524"
- Locked for paying people only (rats!)
"http://www.humanite.presse.fr/journal/2003-04-15/2003-04-15-370369"
- First paragraphe explains that Pretory is a security company, and that they
are responsible for the safety on the "sensitive" flights.
- Second one are "testimonies" of people working at Pretory, complaining about,
amongst others, lack of control on the people they hire, no training, a
hellish timeshedule (flying to 3 different timezones in one week), they aren't
allowed to search pasagers, no means to detain offending passagers, some don't
speak french, others don't speak English, people who get fired keeping their
badges (and gaining access to sensitive area's on the airport...
- Explication that Pretory also does "financial fraud & social fraud" investigations.
However, their employees only work 15 hours a month on paper (in reality
they do 150 - 200 hours a month) and are paid from the UK.
- They mention that the old director got shafted & replaced by William Buck,
"West Point" is mentioned, same as allegded ties to the FBI (if this is true
then i don't want beer :P)
- Explication as to how this all got out of the closet (Air france doing an audit.)
Accusation of bribing people, like eg Joël Cathala, the guy who decided that
Pretory would be in charge of security.
- Further allegations towards Joël Cathala & his involvement with GAL
(assasinations etc in Spain of ETA members etc etc)

Ok, this was a rather long article, and i'm abit tired so i might have missed some details.

"http://securite3.monblogue.com/commentaires/securite3/10423"
- Introduction as to what & why Pretory does & is needed.
Same as above, the complaint that it's employees are not, or porely trained
for the job.
- Mentioning of Jacques Gaussens, founder of Pretory & ex cop getting shafted
Accusations of fraud, and other bad practices.
- This gets intresting, it tells the tale of Jacques & the start of Pretory.
In 1997 the Americans arived: "En 1997, il voit arriver les «Américains» (en
fait, une Française, ancienne hôtesse d'UTA, Raquel Velasco, et son ami de
coeur, Bill Buck, militaire américain reconverti dans les affaires)"
Wich translates to: 'Actually, a french woman, previously a hostess for UTA,
Raquel Velasco, and her close friend, Bill Buck, an American soldier/officer
that went into bussinesses'
The article then states that in 1996 they (BBRV) posed themselves as if they
took over a part of Escom (Amiga?) only to then disapear.
The article then questions what they were doing at Pretory, and according to
Joël Cathala, who was witness to BBRV's wedding (and the guy responsible for
the savety of the airport), and it was him who braught them to Pretory.
They then formed Pretory USA, and invested in promising new technologies,
they convinced Gaussens to sell Pretory france to them for 13% of the capital
of Pretory.
- Again mentioning of West Point & ties with the feds.
- Tells how Pretory got into Air France & hits at favouritism, then mentions
Thendic, who were supposed to make a detector for Explosives, wich never realised.
- Final paragraph mentions the formation of Genesi, and the attempt to buy
Thendic France (who is run by Rachel's brother, Thierry Velasco).
They mention that Thendic France has a 'bad past', i suppose financially, and
that most of it was paid with the money from Pretory.

Ok, i think i have said the important stuff.

Cheers
Thendic-France : Comment 143 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 19-Nov-2003 22:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 142 (Amon_Re):
BBRV,

Any comments?

Cheers
Thendic-France : Comment 144 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 19-Nov-2003 22:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 140 (Amon_Re):
I'm still not clear if Damian is developing apps for DE, or DE itself.
Thendic-France : Comment 145 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Nicolas Sallin on 20-Nov-2003 00:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (Damien Naviliat):
>For comparisons, in times, when pegasos was in development and that no one can >see the product, I never heard Amiga (or not me) telling that the pegasos is a >product that don't exist ok?

I remember at least Benjamin Hermans writing everywhere on ANN that MorphOS and Pegasos didn't exist and were not real until they were available to most people.

>I or even Amiga haven't never, never criticized the quality/existance MOS nor >Pegasos ok?

AmigaInc and Hyperion did it many time and continue to do it, both publicly and privatly (remember all the lies about MorphOS using stollen source code and so on).

Damien, you didn't read ANN enough :)
Thendic-France : Comment 146 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 20-Nov-2003 03:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 142 (Amon_Re):
Wow, that's quite something. So, here we have Bill Buck, saying that the stuff is pretty much true, but with a political spin. Fair enough. But then we find out that the undenied facts include Bill overworking his employees, underpaying them and associating with people invoved in assassination.

Damn.

So, Amiga Inc are criminals for promising people a rebate and going under before being able to pay it, and they treat their employees so badly, because they ran out of cash before being able to pay some salaries. Compare this to the paragons of virtue, the saviours of the amiga, the relabeled Thendic France, AKA Genesi. These guys hang out with REAL criminals (witness to the wedding, huh? that's more than just a business acquaintance), work their employees to the bone and pay them peanuts. But of course, they did release new amiga hardware, so that makes it all OK.

It's true what they say, eventually the truth will come out.

It's also pretty obvious why Rich won't bug these guys - he doesn't want to end up at the bottom of the Seine ;)
Thendic-France : Comment 147 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by CleanRoomMyAzz on 20-Nov-2003 04:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 145 (Nicolas Sallin):
"AmigaInc and Hyperion did it many time and continue to do it, both publicly and privatly (remember all the lies about MorphOS using stollen source code and so on)."

I only recall seeing Amiga mention it once or twice. I also remember seeing a rather lengthy explanation of why/how Amiga came to that conclusion by the one and only Dave Haynie, who I (and most Amiga users who know Mr. Haynie) would believe before *anyone* associated with Genesi; especially MorphOS developers. Also because Mr. Haynie isn't affiliated with either AI nor Genesi; he has no stake in either company's survival so has no reason to lie about stolen source code and the source comments within.
Thendic-France : Comment 148 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Nicolas Sallin on 20-Nov-2003 05:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 147 (CleanRoomMyAzz):
Mr Haynie has his own issues with several Genesi related people, so...
Thendic-France : Comment 149 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 20-Nov-2003 05:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 148 (Nicolas Sallin):
Which are? If you are going to stir up the debate ( and I notice you dragging
Ben Hermans into this thread when up till now this anti-personality stuff had been kept out ) then please do so providing enough collateral to justify you doing it otherwise you seem like someone throwing a bomb into the middle of yet another thread. Theres a four letter word for people who do that.

Dave.
Thendic-France : Comment 150 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 20-Nov-2003 06:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 149 (DaveP):
I think Dave has been labelled as a red troll because he said something along the lines of the pegasos not being god's gift to computers...
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