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[Rant] Hostage NegotiationANN.lu
Posted on 27-Jan-2004 02:07 GMT by Greg Ford260 comments
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There are a group of people, at Amiga Inc, who have decided that their personal reasons are more important than the interests of the company, employees, investors, the customers, and even potential customers, and have ceased any and all effort to involve themselves in anything at all that doesn't directly relate to these personal reasons, even if it means earning an income against it's current mountain of debts. Amiga is being held hostage, and someone's looking to do something about it. The only people that were in any position to remedy this situation were a group of investors who had already lost fortunes in Amiga Inc, and were asked for more money. They were concerned over the money already invested, but told that unless they invested more, they'd never see any returns on these investments ever. The investors didn't like this at all, they felt, exactly like I said, that the small group of people at Amiga Inc, were literally holding Amiga hostage for more money. They did the only thing they could do, they hired Garry Hare to try to restart the company and salvage something for the investors who had already invested large amounts of capital into the failed company.

The problem was, those few at Amiga quickly realised that this was an attempt to get around Amiga Inc's demands for more investment capital, and completely refused to cooporate with Garry Hare, and even going so far as to publicly obfuscate to it's customers Garry's position in the failing company. Garry was instrumental in generating dozens of potentially profitable leads in his three month project that he spent representimg Amiga Inc at tradeshows and technology conferences. Many business contacts and developers became interested and attempted to follow up on these leads, only to be shunned by Amiga Inc who was making it very clear to the investors that they will not be subverted in this way. Either they would invest more capital like Amiga Inc demanded, or Amiga Inc would literally sit on their hands at Amiga Inc and do absolutely nothing, ensuring that the investors money would not produce any potential profits at all, and keeping Amiga Inc in a nonproductive stasis untill such a time when the investors will finally cave in to their demands and give them the investment capital.

To this day Amiga Inc. and the investors are still locked in a standoff, and it appears that neither will give in to the other. The investors are still looking for a way to controll the damage, to get at least a little back from their investment or even wrestle controll as to lead Amiga into promoting it's current technology, while Amiga Inc refuse to both (1) go bankrupt, instead hoping the investors will cave in to Amiga Inc's demands, or (2) try to generate an income, they will not do this as this would be giving in to the investors, who they want more money from.

There is no right or wrong being implied here, but the fact remains nothing will change untill someone gives in. It's quite apparent Amiga Inc believes that it will be the investors who will give in, as they speak quite publically about expecting the next round of funding to be recieved any day now. However I don't know if Amiga Inc realise that, as we speak, the leads that have been generated in spite of Amiga Inc's steadfast resolve to hold out against the investors are being contacted for information about the way in which Amiga Inc has shunned them when they tried to follow up on these leads. I myself have been contacted although I couldn't offer them anything other than telling them Amiga Inc simply refused to follow up on inqueries I've sent them.

All I could gather from these people is that they are determined to do something about the situation. Unfortunately I couldn't offer them much. It would be in my own interests as well for this to be resolved one way or the other as my own plans are in stasis untill something happens as well. Someone has to give. Seeing as how I can't help them much in any way, I'd like to hear from others who might have information that might help the investors in making their case that Amiga Inc is intentionally keeping the company in stasis. I'm not sure if they are preparing legal action or whatever, but to be on the safe side, if you could refrain from posting the details, and instead contact me and I'll give you instructions on contacting the interested parties.

You can contact me at GregFordEmbedded@hotmail.com, and we can start from there. Thank you for your time.

Hostage Negotiation : Comment 251 of 260ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 04-Feb-2004 16:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 249 (Lennart Fridén):
>There was no such thing as "science" before, there was only "philosophy", be
>it the terms that was used.

"Was" indeed. Welcome to the 21st century, Lennart. :-P ;-)
Hostage Negotiation : Comment 252 of 260ANN.lu
Posted by Lennart Fridén on 04-Feb-2004 19:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 251 (samface):
Pfff...I never stated otherwise. :-)
Hostage Negotiation : Comment 253 of 260ANN.lu
Posted by Oppressor on 04-Feb-2004 21:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 250 (samface):
> I mean, I thought AmigaOS4 will actually be more compatible at sourcecode level than MorphOS since MorphOS only provides AmigaOS3.1 compatibility through a so-called "sandbox" solution (A/Box), while AmigaOS4 provides AmigaOS3.1 compatibility through inherited AmigaOS3.x Exec functionality in the new ExecSG?

The sandbox vs. native issue doesn't make the only difference here. Both solutions introduce new calling conventions, and this applies mainly to libraries. While MorphOS solved that within the constraints of the existing library structure, OS4 will introduce another double-indirect calling scheme. Both are okay on source level for applications, but libraries themselves require differentiations and additions.

> While "official" is indeed a highly subjective word, I doubt anyone would question the fact that only AmigaOS4 is the official next generation AmigaOS.

I do, because I believe it's not more enduring and commercially self-supporting as other attempts, and because it emerges under the protection of a company that is considered criminals by many people.

> That's why I see AmigaOS4 as our last chance to unity and therefore
also our last chance to survival.

The last chance of survival lies in unity about the OS3.1 API.

> Sure, one could say that theft is a failure of the owner to protect
his property, but that's not how I see it...

Neither do I, and I didn't claim that. The source codes leaked before the current nameholder started.

>> Btw., I'm having the OS3.1 sources on my harddisk. If I'm releasing
them on my website, will Amiga Inc. have the power to sue me? I don't
think so.

> No, but Hyperion probably do. :-P

Huh, that's funny. What could Hyperion possibly do about it?
Hostage Negotiation : Comment 254 of 260ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 05-Feb-2004 00:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 253 (Oppressor):
>> While "official" is indeed a highly subjective word, I doubt anyone would
>>question the fact that only AmigaOS4 is the official next generation
>>AmigaOS.
>
>I do, because I believe it's not more enduring and commercially self-
>supporting as other attempts,

That depends on how you see things. Both Amiga Inc. and Hyperion would have to "give in" at the same time in order to jeopardize AmigaOS4, both Amiga Inc. and Eyetech would have to "give in" in order to jeopordize the AmigaOne. If Genesi would "give in", say bye to both the Pegasos and MorphOS.

>and because it emerges under the protection of
>a company that is considered criminals by many people.

If you think someone is a criminal, press charges. Noone should be judged without a chance to defend oneself.

>> That's why I see AmigaOS4 as our last chance to unity and therefore
>>also our last chance to survival.
>
>The last chance of survival lies in unity about the OS3.1 API.

That's what we've been trying to survive on for more than 10 years, we need progress. If we don't get an official path forwards soon, most people will pick one of various different paths, like so many already has, and it's very unlikely that they will remain united and choose a common path. No matter how great any of the alternatives are, noone will ever be able to replace the void from the lack of an official path, period.

>>> Btw., I'm having the OS3.1 sources on my harddisk. If I'm releasing
>>>them on my website, will Amiga Inc. have the power to sue me? I don't
>>>think so.
>>
>> No, but Hyperion probably do. :-P
>
>Huh, that's funny. What could Hyperion possibly do about it?

Well, they do have a legal right to protect their product, which is an official follow-up to AmigaOS3.1, and Ben Hermans is a lawyer. Go figure.
Hostage Negotiation : Comment 255 of 260ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 05-Feb-2004 00:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 254 (samface):
>and because it emerges under the protection of
>a company that is considered criminals by many people.

BTW, I remember a certain attempt to file a class act against Amiga Inc. Two people signed up.
Hostage Negotiation : Comment 256 of 260ANN.lu
Posted by Oppressor on 05-Feb-2004 00:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 254 (samface):
How does that affect their work? Are Hyperion legal substitutes for
Amiga Inc.? Ben Hermans a lawyer, this sounds utterly daunting. :)
Hostage Negotiation : Comment 257 of 260ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 05-Feb-2004 14:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 256 (Oppressor):
No, they don't provide legal counsel for Amiga Inc. or anything like that. I was talking about Hyperion's right to protect *their* product. The contract between Amiga Inc. and Hyperion has given Hyperion a complete ownership of the product, which was a measure to protect Hyperion's investment in case anything would happen to Amiga Inc. However, one should also note that the contract is also giving Amiga Inc. the right to restore ownership "when the time is right". Don't know the details about this part, though.

You didn't know that Ben Hermans practise law? Well, now you know. =)
Hostage Negotiation : Comment 258 of 260ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 05-Feb-2004 15:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 257 (samface):
It was even Ben Hermans that wrote the contract, AFAIK.
Hostage Negotiation : Comment 259 of 260ANN.lu
Posted by .jon on 17-Mar-2004 03:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (Greg Ford):
No, you are not screwing it up.

It is a matter of indepentantly intelligent people and those who have a fixed view of all and can not adopt to your message, which for me clearly imposes, that you do not want to be sucked in by the community, instead all you do is to hear of people who share very same interests as you.

You are a developer in its widest sense (maybe 'producer') and your application is stalled, your business is halted, since you *would* like to aim the Amiga market but your can't seem to go forth or back.

They simply do not reply to your contact. And this is strange for you, because you'd have a really interesting offer for them. And since they do not answer you scratch your head, ask yourself "why". And so do many investors (as far as I understood), who, being their nature, want to see some revenue, except of pouring more money into a Black Hole.

I fully undersand your concerns, desire. You have expressed yourself *very* clear from the beginning.

However, you need to realize the fact, that most people over here are fanatics, in one way or other, and as fanatics tend to be, they can not change places, are inflexible to other's people demands. It's within their way of thinking, in their nature of mind.

So, unless you say *exactly* what they want to hear, they simply *will no* undersand you. Stay away. Anyone in the same boat as you long has understood you.

Good luck !

P.S. I have had some brilliant ideas for AmigeDE, however, I never went further, since I believe they are a bunch of losers. I once got a reply by 'fleecy' who commented on a UseNet post I did and he said: "Excellent post". That might even have been in Amino days. It was actually describing what Amiga Inc. originally had (seemed to have) in mind.

I backed off any intent to get into "more" since I saw that all they have is an idea but are too inflexible to realize it.

By now it is too late for Amiga Inc. They wanted to create a hardwareless computer. They failed so far. And I am pretty in doubt, that it will be them to deliver this in the future.

The only platform, where a hardwareless computer (the *really* PERSONAL computer) would make sense is either on a huge installation of public terminals, in hotel rooms and everywhere (forget about that) or within personal mobile devices PLUS the base of machines installed at home.

I however doubt, the customers would ever realize the benefits of such an architecture, as long as those other systems do what they want.

Why install a system on top of another system, if the underlying system does what one wants and delivers full interfaces to the different system on the desktop or the server ?
Hostage Negotiation : Comment 260 of 260ANN.lu
Posted by .jon on 19-Mar-2004 05:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 259 (.jon):
Hm. By re-reading I realize I did not get it completly ;)

Must be my bad skills of understanding. English ain't my native language.
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