26-Apr-2024 10:27 GMT.		 UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Anonymous, there are 77 items in your selection (but only 27 shown due to limitation) [1 - 50] [51 - 77]
[Forum] Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ?ANN.lu
Posted on 15-Jul-2004 09:49 GMT by Elwood77 comments
View flat
View list
Hi, I just found this item from the past (October 2000). I didn't remember this...
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 51 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 16-Jul-2004 11:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Sammy Nordström):
"What Amiga Inc. opposed was the idea having a hardware manufacturer that would own and control the OS as well."

This derives from fleecy's idea that you can have an OS that floats around and doesn't operate any real life hardware.

It makes much more sense to have the hardware and OS of a computer designed as an integrated whole, as with Macs, Playstation, etc. After all, what does an operating system do ?
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 52 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 16-Jul-2004 11:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Sammy Nordström):
The reason for why there is only one "AmigaOne" hardware solution available today is because it would be insane to support more than one hardware solution before the OS has been completed.
--

That is *EXACTLY* what bPlan told Amiga Inc... They didn't believe it, they
whined that the AmigaOne would be treated unfairly and that they should develop
it all at once "since it's easy to do that with a HAL"... Now, does this remind
me something?
*THAT'S* why I always said that the development of AmigaOS, no matter which
company took it over (Hyperion now) would be *MUCH* better without Amiga Inc...
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 53 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 16-Jul-2004 12:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
"*THAT'S* why I always said that the development of AmigaOS, no matter which
company took it over (Hyperion now) would be *MUCH* better without Amiga Inc..."

Let's hope so. Probably Tao will also be better off without Amiga Inc.

Throughout the history of the Amiga, the big problem has always been the management. The coders and hardware designers have consistently done a good job.
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 54 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 16-Jul-2004 15:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (Sammy Nordström):
"Don't be so short sighted."

I think rather the problem is that you are trying to see further than your vision allows...

"No. Any alternative would have the exact same licensing terms and fees."

As already mentioned, I highly doubt that...

"Financial stake? Well, of course the amount of sold hardware affects the OS developer as well, but more hardware alternatives usually means more OS sales too, you know."

"Usually" .. in this case I don't think so .. there's only one group of people who might even be remotely interested in any Amiga spinoff, and I believe they've already bought into it...

"What makes you think that another alternative would not mean just as much "financial stake"?"

Because there's no sucker alive who would accept such terms without knowing the userbase consists of enough people willing to pay the extra price for the exact same hardware they can get cheaper elsewhere to make it viable...

"Of course they can make exceptions for as long as it is OK with the owner of the AmigaOS IP."

Ah, that clears it all up then...

"Of course not. Why would they?"

Indeed...


- CISC
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 55 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 17-Jul-2004 03:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Now isn't this the typical open source developer point of view? I mean, only the ones contributing with lines of code are the ones actually doing anything, right? I'm sorry but in the world of commercial software, everything is about fundings, contracts and licensing issues. No commercial OS will ever have a single line of code put into it without sorting out those issues first. Amiga Inc. spent their first 2 years in office on negotiating before AmigaOS4 was finally able to come into production.

Note that I'm not trying to belittle the work put into AmigaOS4 by Hyperion and the rest of the AmigaOS4 development team, it's just that you simply cannot disregard the fact that it was Amiga Inc. that made it possible. Regardless of what you may think of them when it comes to other issues, atleast you should be able to recognize that.
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 56 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 17-Jul-2004 04:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (Sigbjørn Skjæret):
>"No. Any alternative would have the exact same licensing terms and fees."
>
>As already mentioned, I highly doubt that...

Why?

>"Financial stake? Well, of course the amount of sold hardware affects the OS
>developer as well, but more hardware alternatives usually means more OS sales
>too, you know."
>
>"Usually" .. in this case I don't think so .. there's only one group of people
>who might even be remotely interested in any Amiga spinoff, and I believe
>they've already bought into it...

Unlike the alternatives, what we are discussing is not a spinoff. It's the one and only official next generation Amiga hardware and operating system.

>"What makes you think that another alternative would not mean just as
>much "financial stake"?"
>
>Because there's no sucker alive who would accept such terms without knowing
>the userbase consists of enough people willing to pay the extra price for the
>exact same hardware they can get cheaper elsewhere to make it viable...

How convinient of you to leave out the part explaining that until the OS has been released in it's final end-user version, it's a part of the hardware purchase which of course makes the same hardware *without the OS* cheaper.
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 57 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 17-Jul-2004 04:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Now you're just putting a spin on things you don't even know if they are true to begin with. I mean, even if you've got it from a reliable source, I doubt that source would be unbiased and things always happen to become more distorted for each ear and mouth it has passed before it gets to you.

What we do know is that Amiga Inc. obviously doesn't have a problem with it today. This was even the official explanation for why they dropped the plans to support the Pegasos as an AmigaOne, IIRC.
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 58 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 17-Jul-2004 05:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (Sammy Nordström):
Don't forget that funding isn't something Amiga Inc did... So... forget one
point already.
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 59 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 17-Jul-2004 05:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (Sammy Nordström):
No, Samface, you're putting a spin on these words, this specific point was
confirmed by all parties. bPlan said that they need to finish it on their
development platform *first*, before porting it to anything else. The other side
said that this would be unfair for the other hardware licencees and didn't like
it. Both of these claims are from the horse's mouth, not through other people.
This is *not* something you can change Samface.
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 60 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Janne on 17-Jul-2004 07:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (Sammy Nordström):
>Note that I'm not trying to belittle the work put into AmigaOS4 by Hyperion
>and the rest of the AmigaOS4 development team, it's just that you simply
>cannot disregard the fact that it was Amiga Inc. that made it possible.

Well, many people would agree that Amiga Inc. finally understood not to stand in the way of a third party doing all the work for them... :)
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 61 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 17-Jul-2004 08:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
I'm not trying to change anything. Although, I would still like to hear the various versions of this story from the different parties before passing any judgement on this issue. Somehow, I just know that there is more to this story than you are telling us.
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 62 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 17-Jul-2004 08:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Saying that it takes funding for developing a commercial operating system is not the same thing as saying that Amiga Inc. would have funded AmigaOS4. Please try to focus a bit more on the context of my words rather than the words themselves and you might be able to understand what I'm trying to say a bit easier.
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 63 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 17-Jul-2004 08:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (Janne):
Making it a part of their marketing strategy and future products is far more than "not beeing in the way of a third party doing all the work for them", IMO.
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 64 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 17-Jul-2004 08:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (Sammy Nordström):
"Why?"

I thought I already explained that below...

"Unlike the alternatives, what we are discussing is not a spinoff. It's the one and only official next generation Amiga hardware and operating system."

Whatever your opinion of this may be it hardly changes the fact that there is only a very limited group of people with an interest in this, now does it?

"How convinient of you to leave out the part explaining that until the OS has been released in it's final end-user version, it's a part of the hardware purchase which of course makes the same hardware *without the OS* cheaper."

Rather, how convenient of you to try to spin that into the creative maths...


- CISC
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 65 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Andreas_Wolf on 17-Jul-2004 09:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Sammy Nordström):
> MAI and their far eastern motherboard designer

MAI design their motherboards themselves. They have a far eastern company (FIC) *producing* them. Maybe you confused this.
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 66 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Andreas_Wolf on 17-Jul-2004 09:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Anonymous):
> bPlan always delivered products they promised ? Oh wait did you forget A/Box ? :)

Where did bplan promise anything like this?
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 67 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 17-Jul-2004 09:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Sigbjørn Skjæret):
>Whatever your opinion of this may be it hardly changes the fact that there is
>only a very limited group of people with an interest in this, now does it?

You mean, unlike mainstream computers such as the Pegasos? LOL!
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 68 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 17-Jul-2004 09:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (Sammy Nordström):
You have a nice way of dismissing facts. Changing the spotlight...
Now, who said that Pegasos is a mainstream computer, eh?
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 69 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 17-Jul-2004 09:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (Sammy Nordström):
"You mean, unlike mainstream computers such as the Pegasos? LOL!"

Unlike?! No, exactly like .. the only difference being is that the Pegasos isn't "limited" to a single OS...

..funny how you try to steer away the debate with totally irrelevant remarks which you somehow think will offend the other party, too bad you totally missed your mark on that one...


- CISC
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 70 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 17-Jul-2004 10:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
>You have a nice way of dismissing facts.

What facts?

>Changing the spotlight...

Yes, sometimes you need to view things in a bit different light in order to see them for what they really are. The target for the spotligt is still the same, you know.

>Now, who said that Pegasos is a mainstream computer, eh?

I did. Ever heard of irony?
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 71 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 17-Jul-2004 10:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (Sigbjørn Skjæret):
>"You mean, unlike mainstream computers such as the Pegasos? LOL!"
>
>Unlike?! No, exactly like .. the only difference being is that the Pegasos
>isn't "limited" to a single OS...

Neither is the AmigaOne.

>..funny how you try to steer away the debate with totally irrelevant remarks
>which you somehow think will offend the other party, too bad you totally
>missed your mark on that one...

Exactly what I thought about your remark that the interest in the AmigaOne would be very small.
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 72 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 17-Jul-2004 11:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (Sammy Nordström):
"Neither is the AmigaOne."

So it wasn't you then that said that the A1 is only meant for OS4, hence the name, and that Linux or any other OS is not important (good thing, as they seem to be very hard to adapt to it properly without issues (if you want to steer, be sure not to hit that tree))...

"Exactly what I thought about your remark that the interest in the AmigaOne would be very small."

Why? It's the truth, and the same goes for the Pegasos, except that the Pegasos has a marginally better chance at succeeding since it supports a heck of a lot more OS' (relatively speaking)...

..anyway, you're still steering away from the real debate, try to keep up or drop out of the race...


- CISC
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 73 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 17-Jul-2004 11:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 72 (Sigbjørn Skjæret):
>"Neither is the AmigaOne."
>
>So it wasn't you then that said that the A1 is only meant for OS4, hence the
>name, and that Linux or any other OS is not important (good thing, as they
>seem to be very hard to adapt to it properly without issues (if you want to
>steer, be sure not to hit that tree))...

Nope. Although, I have said that Eyetech doesn't provide you with any kind of support for Linux, which is no different from most PCs.

>"Exactly what I thought about your remark that the interest in the AmigaOne
>would be very small."
>
>Why? It's the truth,

Sure, but still, as you said, a rather pointless and irrelevant remark.

>and the same goes for the Pegasos, except that the
>Pegasos has a marginally better chance at succeeding since it supports a heck
>of a lot more OS' (relatively speaking)...

Well, the hardware is just a commodity these days, IMO. What is important is that we shouldn't repeat the mistakes of our past and tie the OS and applications to any specific custom hardware solution nor hardware provider. Thanks to the concept behind the AmigaOne as a "semi-open" platform, the AmigaOne has been made a reality despite Escena's and bPlan's failed attempts to deliver an AmigaOne computer. Eyetech just turned to another PPC hardware provider and then delivered at about the same time as the Pegasos.

Now *that* is what gives the AmigaOne and AmigaOS4 a significant advantage over the proprietary and closed nature of the Pegasos and MorphOS, IMO. Tell me, do you think the Pegasos would survive another disagreement with their chipset providers? What will happen to MorphOS if Genesi goes bancrupt?

>..anyway, you're still steering away from the real debate, try to keep up or
>drop out of the race...

What am *I* steering away from? You're the one that brought the amount of interest in the AmigaOne into this debate and that is what I'm counter arguing here, nothing else.
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 74 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 17-Jul-2004 12:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 73 (Sammy Nordström):
"the AmigaOne has been made a reality despite Escena's and bPlan's failed attempts to deliver an AmigaOne computer" I remember someone said Escena can deliver. What happened? "Thanks to the concept behind the AmigaOne as a "semi-open" platform" By the way do you know any other PPC HW makers? Mac HW is not open.
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 75 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 17-Jul-2004 12:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (itix):
>"the AmigaOne has been made a reality despite Escena's and bPlan's failed
>attempts to deliver an AmigaOne computer"
>
>I remember someone said Escena can deliver. What happened?

I think they had some problems finding a suitable chipset provider or something like that, which is probably why Eyetech later on started with finding a chipset provider and then asked them who could deliver a PPC computer using their chipset.

>"Thanks to the concept behind the AmigaOne as a "semi-open" platform"
>
>By the way do you know any other PPC HW makers? Mac HW is not open.

No. But then, I had never heard of MAI before they become the chipset and hardware design provider for the AmigaOne. :-P
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 76 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 17-Jul-2004 12:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 75 (Sammy Nordström):
Funny coincidence that Eyetech and Genesi (initially) chose same chip maker, MAI Logic. Or is it funny at all?
Amiga did have contacts with bPlan ? : Comment 77 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 17-Jul-2004 13:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 73 (Sammy Nordström):
"Nope. Although, I have said that Eyetech doesn't provide you with any kind of support for Linux, which is no different from most PCs."

Strange, I must have mis-paraphrased you, let's try with a direct quote from here then:

"Nice try, but no AmigaOne owner "needs" Linux anymore. They have the AmigaOS4 developer pre-release now. Besides, Eyetech made it perfectly clear that they don't have any support for Linux and that you're basicly buying the AmigaOne before AmigaOS4 has been released on your own risk."

..looks to me like you are saying that no A1 owner needs Linux because it's broken on the A1, and that everyone will use OS4 instead .. oh, and nice touch with that non-support cop-out, too bad it is a later addendum and it was the only OS the owners were able to run on it for quite a long time (and infact, all those who bought the early developer boards aren't even elegible for OS4)...

"Now *that* is what gives the AmigaOne and AmigaOS4 a significant advantage over the proprietary and closed nature of the Pegasos and MorphOS, IMO."

LOL, I don't think people give you enough credit as a comedian...

"Tell me, do you think the Pegasos would survive another disagreement with their chipset providers?"

No way for me to tell, however it certainly doesn't look like that would happen now, would it, and if it did, it would surely be out of necessity...

"What will happen to MorphOS if Genesi goes bancrupt?"

Nothing? What does MorphOS have to do with Genesi?

"What am *I* steering away from? You're the one that brought the amount of interest in the AmigaOne into this debate and that is what I'm counter arguing here, nothing else."

Because it was a valid point in the discussion, and your lame attempts to counter it (you have yet to show us what massive interest there could possibly be in the world market for OS4 (or MorphOS, Amithlon, AROS, etc for that matter)) only serves to underline it further...


- CISC
Anonymous, there are 77 items in your selection (but only 27 shown due to limitation) [1 - 50] [51 - 77]
Back to Top