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[Rant] IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHERANN.lu
Posted on 07-Sep-2004 17:34 GMT by Darrin140 comments
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Before reaching comment #150 in an earlier debate, I suggested a "wild idea": Who on each side is prepared to bury the past, treat the other side(s) with respect and DEBATE instead of ARGUE? One golden rule... whoever signs up should try and remeber the names of the others doing the same and treat them with the respect which they would like to be shown to themselves. Anyone against it should then be ignored by the group in order to avoid flamefests. Here is the reasoning behind the idea: Let's forget about everything Amiga Inc, Gensei, Hyperion, McEwan, Buck, Fleecy, Hermans, Schmidt, KennyR, Eva, myself, Sammy... EVERYONE has said in the past. Yes, that's right - let's FORGET IT ALL. It's group hug time!!! Let's accept that OS4, MOS, AROS, AmigaDE and Amithlon are all great pieces of software. Let's accept that the latest Pegasos and Amiga boards are worth buying if you want to. Let's also remind ourselves that several years of blasting each other with wild accusations and insults have got all sides NOWHERE. I'll start. I apologise to everyone I've insulted on ANN. I'd like to thank everyone I've debated with. I want an AmigaOne for myself. I'd like to pay the same price as the Pegasos for it, but I accept the fact that I want OS4 so I have to buy an AmigaOne and I'd appreciate it if everyone would recognise that it's my choice. I wish the Pegasos and MOS good luck in this small market. I hope OS4+ manages the suceess of the classic OS. I like Amigaworld.net and I'm sure that MorphZone is a wonderful place full of satisfied customers. Let's cut out the crap. Let's talk to each other as if we were face to face and not hide behind keyboards. I'd much rather spend my time commenting on what software is being developed for the platforms than talking about what where my T-shirt is or whether a business card was genuine or not. Can we stick to what's important? Can we agree to disagree? I don't recall the Amiga v ST war being anything like this, but then we usually had to meet each other face to face. Damn, this reads like a bloody John Lenon song ;-) This is a chance to start a multi-platform news-site that we can ALL enjoy? I'd like to give it a try. This may be pointless, it probably won't work, but who is willing to try? Comment below and let's bury the past and respect those who respect us. Thanks for reading.
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 101 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Jerry on 09-Sep-2004 05:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 95 (gary_c):
>many people will want to define "Amiga Community"<
- For me Amiga is not a company (call it Commodore, Escom, Gateway, Genesi, Amiga Inc, Hyperion, Eyetech, MAI, or other...)!
- For me Amiga is not a Hardware Platform (call it Peg, ClassicAmiga, AmigaOne, or other...)
- For me Amiga is not an OS or software (call it MOS, AmigaOS, or other)

For me Amiga is about a spirit, a way of doing thing, and to offer a good alternative. Unified we have a chance to make a difference, divised I wouldn't think so (now that could be just me)...

In a way I came from the "ClassicAmiga World" BUT I never really cared about the company/companies behind as long as I could do what I wanted with my machine.


- Most people around here are against M$... So can we agree on: "The enemies or my enemies are my friends" (could that be a first step?).

[dream]
- Just imagine we could also build cross-apps working on A1/OS4, Peg/MOS, PPC/Linux, and why not Mac/OSX ? That would be something and certainly good enough to take away the monopolistic status of M$ ! OK ME DREAMING !
[/dream]

Jerry
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 102 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 09-Sep-2004 05:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 96 (Anonymous):
Jay Miner was a genius hw designer, but i wouldn't attribute him to *any* camp or persuation, Jay & his team are the original Amiga creators, and as such, they had a vision of hw & sw working together & doing things better then what was at that time possible.

I doubt he'd associate himself with eighter camp were he still alive.
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 103 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 09-Sep-2004 05:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 102 (Amon_Re):
You're right. I mean, saying that Jay miner belongs to one of the camps is a bit like claiming that God is Jewish.
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 104 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 09-Sep-2004 05:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 103 (Sammy Nordström):
He isn't?! o.O :)
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 105 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 09-Sep-2004 05:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 104 (Amon_Re):
An interesting read on this subject:
http://www.ethicalatheist.com/docs/three_religions.html

So, what is God; jew, christian or muslim?
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 106 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 09-Sep-2004 06:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 105 (Sammy Nordström):
None of them. Imaginarycharacter.
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 107 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 09-Sep-2004 06:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 105 (Sammy Nordström):
Well, i personally don't believe in an entity called "god" so for me, he's none of those ^^
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 108 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by timofonic on 09-Sep-2004 06:33 GMT
Remember...

Don't feed the troll!

The history is repeating again...
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 109 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 09-Sep-2004 06:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 107 (Amon_Re):
Me too, but you do see the point I'm trying to make, right? =)
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 110 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Tripper on 09-Sep-2004 10:37 GMT
Yeah! I see common sense and idealism here! I'm definately in =)
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 111 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 09-Sep-2004 11:47 GMT
I big "howdie-Doodie" to everyone. I was waiting to pass the 100 posts mark to gauge the interest. Thanks to everyone who thinks this is a good idea and who is going to give it a try. In summary, here are the names who have signed up so far (or posted is in a positive manner):

Darrin, Andreas Magerl, Amon_RE, Sammy Nordstrom, Gregg, Denise LaSalle, Chris Scott, Timofonic, JoannaK, Christophe Decanini, Minator, Darth_X, Hooligan/DCS, Gooze, Traposoft, Cheesegrate, Smithy, Stevo, Votigern Badinage, John Block, Ed, Anon 82.48.139.154, James Caroll, Gary_C, Miksuh, Oli, GPL_Police, Ferry, Bernie Meyer, Jerry, Lamont Cranston, Tripper.

We've managed to survive such blaitant troll bait such as the "Jay Miner" comment with no four letter obscenities. Yayyyyy!!!! ;-) We've set an example for the others to follow. The good news is, that this list is made up of the people who make up a good majority of the posts on ANN. There's still a few "big names" missing, but I live in hope.

And now the party poopers: ;-)

Revenge-is-sweet, Gaz Murphi, Marco Steinberg

Then there's the "unclear":

3Seas

While others prefer watching teletubbies (at least it's not "Barney"):

Darklite

So, we have the following scores on the doors:

32 - (86%) for civil discussion.
3 – (8%) for trolling.
1 – (3%) for cryptic comments.
1 – (3%) for watching teletubbies.
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 112 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Kinderpsychedelisch on 09-Sep-2004 14:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 92 (darklite):
Never mind the Teletubbies, check www.boohbah.com. In fact, anyone who does will spend so mch time playing there they will lose the will to flame and fight and hate. Instead, they'll be playing fun games of a strangely Zen oder of mellowness.

Heh, maybe a VW van painted like that site would be a good idea.
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 113 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 09-Sep-2004 15:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 112 (Kinderpsychedelisch):
lol. Whoever designed that website was seriously "tripping".
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 114 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re's father on 09-Sep-2004 16:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 107 (Amon_Re):
Dear Amon_Re, egyptian god...

If you don not belief in God, then you don't belief there are aliens from space or any higher entities in the universe!

ciao,
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 115 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 09-Sep-2004 17:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (JoannaK):
Hell yeah!
Move on people. It's way past time.
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 116 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Wayne Dresing on 09-Sep-2004 17:04 GMT
Hello everyone in our community,

First of all, I would like to thank Darren. This is a sweet initiative, good work Darren! :-)

Second, I am considering offering my services, as a technology consultant to KMOS inc, could someone please post their contact address?


- Wayne


ps: Please visit my site www.dresing.com and click on some links and earn me money! Help me to live the American dream!!! :-)
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 117 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by mjohnson on 09-Sep-2004 22:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (gary_c):
> The mere sight of my avatar at a certain site puts some people on guard

Ehm, you don't think that's got anything to do with the fact that it's creepy!? ;-)
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 118 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 09-Sep-2004 22:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (Wayne Dresing):
Uhm, it's not dressing, LOL

American dream? Be president?

Why that OT comment here about finding work? It's very lame...
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 119 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 09-Sep-2004 22:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (Wayne Dresing):
I don't see any info about you, It seems only be a webpage of automatic domain registers.
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 120 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Since when... on 09-Sep-2004 22:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (Wayne Dresing):
- KMOS, INC is a Fleecy's invention.

- Since when KMOS, INC contracts people?

- Since when KMOS, INC has a real and good product?

- Since when companies amiga-related will contract an inefficient ex-worker of Genesi?

- Since when a company will contract you by doing publicity on a forum in OT manner?
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 121 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 10-Sep-2004 01:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (mjohnson):
Ehm, you don't think that's got anything to do with the fact that it's creepy!? ;-)

Well, even after discounting the creepy factor.... ;-)

-- gary_c
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 122 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 10-Sep-2004 02:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 119 (Anonymous):
I think someone is trying to have a stab at the (in)famous "Doommaster", aka "Boingboss", etc. He's having a rough time of it lately having been banned on Amiga.org for some dodgy eBay practices and I guess someone posted this here in the hope that w'd all start firing away at him. I guess we passed that test too. :-)
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 123 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Jerry on 10-Sep-2004 04:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 122 (Darrin):
DoomMaster has been banned from various amiga related forums for various illegal practices and really bad trolling (from what appeared on those web sites... I am not trying to judge him!).

@Wayne Dresing
In theory they should be contactable at information@kmos.com (I didn't tried this Email address myself).
Now I believe Eyetech or Hyperion could be a better guess (I don't know if they are recruiting).
Also you may want to consider some Amiga Dealers like StellarDreams(UK), Vesalia(DE), Softhut(US)...

Jerry
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 124 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 10-Sep-2004 06:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 123 (Jerry):
Isn't "Wayne Dres(s)ing" Doommaster?
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 125 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Wayne Dresing on 10-Sep-2004 06:54 GMT
@Agima

I am NOT doommaster! Doommaster is in beaverton (oregon), I am in San Diego. Seems to me the american Agima is also in beaverton. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 126 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by darklite on 10-Sep-2004 09:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 111 (Darrin):
I can't believe how naïve you are. Do you really believe this sorry community can make peace? Even those running things (or at least that's what they're supposedly doing) fight publicly on ANN.
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 127 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 10-Sep-2004 09:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 125 (Wayne Dresing):
Ooops!!! Sorry!!!
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 128 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 10-Sep-2004 10:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 126 (darklite):
>I can't believe how naïve you are. Do you really believe this sorry community
>can make peace? Even those running things (or at least that's what they're
>supposedly doing) fight publicly on ANN.

If it's such a "sorry community" then why are you here? Being here makes you part of the "sorry community" too.

Anyway, to answer your question. No, I don't believe the WHOLE community can make peace with one another because there are certain individuals that get off on provoking fights or insulting others. What I do believe is that the majority of people here on ANN are sick and tired of the endless recycling of old news and want to debate new topics in a civil manner. So far 38 people have stood up and agreed to this while only a small minority have attempted to prove otherwise.

I don't expect the flaming to stop, but what I'd like to do is identify a group of people who wish to behave in a civil manner and bring them together where they can debate tough subjects, but still be treated with respect.

My major concern was the average Joe Bloggs who would visit this website because he once owned an Amiga, take one look at it and say "bugger that, where's my PC?".

I can understand why you're a skeptic, but let's give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Infact, when I suggested this about a year ago, you posted then that the idea sucked and you wanted nothing to do with it, didn't you?
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 129 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by darklite on 10-Sep-2004 10:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 128 (Darrin):
If it's such a "sorry community" then why are you here? Being here makes you part of the "sorry community" too.

Entertainment, mostly.

I don't expect the flaming to stop, but what I'd like to do is identify a group of people who wish to behave in a civil manner and bring them together where they can debate tough subjects, but still be treated with respect.

Then I suggest you get people like Ben Hermans and Bill Buck to join.

My major concern was the average Joe Bloggs who would visit this website because he once owned an Amiga, take one look at it and say "bugger that, where's my PC?".

And you hope this will bring more people to the community?

I can understand why you're a skeptic, but let's give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Infact, when I suggested this about a year ago, you posted then that the idea sucked and you wanted nothing to do with it, didn't you?

I can't remember. Appareantly it didn't work back then and it won't work now.
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 130 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by darklite on 10-Sep-2004 10:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (Jerry):
Most people around here are against M$... So can we agree on: "The enemies or my enemies are my friends" (could that be a first step?).

No, I think that's rather childish.
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 131 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 10-Sep-2004 11:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 129 (darklite):
>Entertainment, mostly.

LOL. That's a fair answer ;-)

>Then I suggest you get people like Ben Hermans and Bill Buck to join.

It would be great to see them post. I know at least one of them is watching, and they probably both are. Unfortunately, the second one of them does post then I'd expect a barage of hate-posts to flood the thread. Still, at least this will draw the trolls out...

>And you hope this will bring more people to the community?

I don't think it will do any harm, and it's more geared to trying to drive less people away.

>I can't remember. Appareantly it didn't work back then and it won't work now.

You're right that it didn't work, but I hope that this time I'm right and you're wrong. However, I'm not going to bet on it :-)
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 132 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by mr bigballs on 10-Sep-2004 12:06 GMT
your all fucking cunts..burn in hell u sad fuckers
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 133 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Jerry on 10-Sep-2004 13:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 128 (Darrin):
>My major concern was the average Joe Bloggs who would visit this website because he once owned an Amiga, take one look at it and say "bugger that, where's my PC?".<
You're right on that. I "left" the Amiga in the 1998 when it started to be too difficult to find any software/hardware and I "lost" my A500 in a move (a change of life) and I came back about a year ago to the Amiga (missing mine too much and more and more annoyed about M$)... If the first Amiga forum I visited back then was ANN (lucky me it was os.amiga.com then AW), I wouldn't be on any Amiga Forums today! Maybe Mac forums ?

Jerry
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 134 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 10-Sep-2004 13:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 133 (Jerry):
Hi Jerry,

thanks for confirming my thoughts. So how do you get your "Amiga" fix today? UAE? Amithlon? Or are you just waiting for new hardware? If you haven't played with Amiga Forever then I recommend downloading the online version and tracking down some ADF's of your favourite games.
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 135 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Jerry on 10-Sep-2004 14:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 134 (Darrin):
Hi Darrin,
For the past year I bought 3 x A1200 (1 I used for spare parts) and 2 x A1200T
I also use WinUAE and AIAB and for the past 4 or 5 months I am also using AmigaForever.
I bought all those Amiga from Amibench except the first one I bought from AnalogicComputer (A1200 Desktop and I was really disapointed by their poor service).
I also bought a lot of original Amiga Apps (even a boxed AMOS) and Games from Ebay, and download a lot more Apps and Games from various sites (including Back2Roots and Aminet).
I also connected the PC with one of the A1200T (with BPPC) to transfer and convert ADF/ADZ to Amiga Floppies. I just need now to find the time to connect one of the A1200 to the Internet (I have already the PCMCIA Card with all drivers/SW).
My next step will be to buy an AmigaOne (or MicroA1) once the Full OS4 is out (hopefully in the coming months... But more likely "when it's done") and the new production starts...

ps: I also went to the BigBash in Peterborough where I saw the OS4Pre in action... And I was quite impressed !

Jerry
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 136 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 10-Sep-2004 15:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 135 (Jerry):
>For the past year I bought 3 x A1200 (1 I used for spare parts) and 2 x A1200T
>I also use WinUAE and AIAB and for the past 4 or 5 months I am also using
>AmigaForever.

Looks like you've been busy rebuilding your collection. The only Amigas I have left are an A1200T (Power Tower), A3000 desktop, CD32 and an A1200 mobo. I've been debating expanding the A3000 for a while, but with a finished OS4 always around the corner, I've never bothered.

>I bought all those Amiga from Amibench except the first one I bought from
>AnalogicComputer (A1200 Desktop and I was really disapointed by their poor
>service).

I keep hearing bad things about Analogic. I've never used them myself. I've always ordered from Eyetech or Power Computing depite the extra shipping charges for sending stuff from UK to US. Other companies I've used that were good are no longer trading :-(

>I also connected the PC with one of the A1200T (with BPPC) to transfer and
>convert ADF/ADZ to Amiga Floppies.

I assume you're using a null modem link. See if you can find a copy of "Siamese v2.5". It lets you link an Amiga and PC, share drives, share one keyboard & mouse, use the PC's printer and (this is the kicker) use the PC as a graphics card and retarget your Amiga display over the link (yes, even a serial link - but ethernet is better) so you can display your workbench/RTG software on the PC's monitor in whatever resolution your PC is capabale of. I had a A1200 displaying a 24bit 1024x768 workbench on a 133MHz Pentium 1. i've never tried it on a PC with Windows XP though...

>I just need now to find the time to connect one of the A1200 to the Internet
>(I have already the PCMCIA Card with all drivers/SW).

That's something I've always wanted to do, but never got around to. Shame really as I have a cable modem. Has anyone ever got a wireless network PCMCIA card working in an Amiga1200/600?

The latest Amiga Forever package has a (almost) OS3.9 setup with AWeb that will use your PC's internet connection so that you can instantly surf the web from the Workbench on UAE.

>My next step will be to buy an AmigaOne (or MicroA1) once the Full OS4 is out
>(hopefully in the coming months... But more likely "when it's done") and the
>new production starts...

That's what I'm waiting for. I'd preordered an AmigaOne when the earlybird offer was made, but cancelled it as the delay went on and on.

>ps: I also went to the BigBash in Peterborough where I saw the OS4Pre in
>action... And I was quite impressed !

I don't think there's been an OS4 demo in Louisiana... :-(
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 137 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous Orc on 10-Sep-2004 17:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 102 (Amon_Re):
too right.

and BOTH current solutions are !crap! compared to what Jay and his team would or could produce if they were all around and alive today.

so both sides are bad. isnt that the best way to stay neutral? ;-)
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 138 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by timofonic on 10-Sep-2004 22:59 GMT
Waynet Hunt is the Genesi ex-worker, Wayne Dresing i don't know.

It seems that there are some confused people (at least one).

Fleecy Moss = Wayne Dresing?

Who is Wayne Dresing? Who is this Wayne Dresing?
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 139 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Chris H on 12-Sep-2004 18:04 GMT
I'm all for trying to be civil and actually make some progress, instead of bitching about the past. Personally I can't see it actually happening, and the only thing keeping me around is the fact that the OS & programs are still so damn nice to use.

I guess you might blame some of the flames on the frustration of the unrealised promises of various Amiga owners - sadly including the current owners, although though things are looking up... (touches wood)
IT'S TIME TO RESPECT EACH OTHER : Comment 140 of 140ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Sep-2004 07:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 138 (timofonic):
In an article written about Amiga Inc Fleecy responded to a journalist using a friends account, the journalist wrote up his comments as from Wayne Dresing. Thus, Amiga history was born.

Ever since then, a certain Dundee based troll has used the name Wayne Dresing and other names to make troll posts under.
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