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[Unmoderated] Food for thoughtANN.lu
Posted on 20-Oct-2004 09:17 GMT by The Inquisitor93 comments
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Here's some proof, beyond any doubt, that EarlyBird'ers have been tricked out. When even Ben Hermans says, with unanbiguous words, that the Teron CX/PX is "fully functional", what else are the poor customers expected to believe?
Food for thought : Comment 51 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 20-Oct-2004 17:26 GMT
"Here's some proof, beyond any doubt, that EarlyBird'ers have been tricked out." Personally I could not care less. If they were it was their own fault. If they werent then good for them?
Food for thought : Comment 52 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 20-Oct-2004 17:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
One can always get a USB floppy drive... or save some money and buy a USB memstick. Cheaper, better, faster and works everywhere with USB.
Food for thought : Comment 53 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 20-Oct-2004 17:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Darrin):
"USB and Firewire all OK and running on MOS 1.4? Floppy support looking good? Just wondering..."

It's a matter of drivers and support in the OS. The hardware is working just fine, as you will notice when you use Linux PPC on the Pegasos II.
Food for thought : Comment 54 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 20-Oct-2004 18:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Fabio Alemagna):
Fabio, you have read Alan's explanations for those problems. Yes, the one where he explained that due to VIA's inability to cooperate, they are forced to reverse engineer the VIA chip in order to develop a driver that will solve those problems with using UDMA-IDE and the network drivers at the same time. In other words, it IS a matter of software that needs further refinement, now isn't it?

Now, you're of course free to doubt his words, but tell me, why should we believe in you?
Food for thought : Comment 55 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 20-Oct-2004 18:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (Sammy Nordström):
ARGH! I'm out of pop corn!
Food for thought : Comment 56 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 20-Oct-2004 18:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Don't worry, I won't reply to his drivels :-)
Food for thought : Comment 57 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 20-Oct-2004 21:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (Fabio Alemagna):
Just one word, TROLL post
Food for thought : Comment 58 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by JKD on 20-Oct-2004 21:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Anonymous):
>> At that point in time I believe Eyetech know full well there
>> are serious problems with the board
>
>Now, what you believe and what you can prove are two different things.

Agreed.

>You need to prove that they knew it and that they intended to fool their customers or knowingly
>fooled them. Can you prove this and hold this even infront of a court ?

Can I Prove it? Personally, aboslutely not but I don't need to prove anything - I'm not even an Amiga One owner. I remain interested in the hardware because of my interest in AmigaOS and the hope that one day the hardware platform will be affordable enough to run it and the doubt about it's functionality is proven beyond reasonable doubt.

Indeed it seems the majority of public* evidence is largely hearsay/conjecture - although there are test results and admissions by certain individuals which might be sufficient evidence for a court case. If it did get to court, I' imagine the right people could be subpoena'd to testify. (I am unqualified to state this, hence the use of might and could before anyone accuses me of armchair lawyering.)

* those NDAs were put in place (by both Eyetech and Genesi for a reason...
Food for thought : Comment 59 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Graham_nli on 20-Oct-2004 23:18 GMT
What really irks me about the AmigaOne, aside from being year 2000 hardware, not 2004 hardware, is that Eyetech continue to use the VIA southbridge, even on the new mini-itx motherboard (although at least they provide the SI IDE controller there onboard).

Now I'm sure that lots of people here know that VIA aren't the only source of PCI attached southbridges. Surely another provider could have been found?

Still, I suppose on the mini-itx the 686B is merely being used as a legacy port controller, USB controller and a couple of other things, with IDE support disabled completely. It is barely a southbridge!
Food for thought : Comment 60 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Janne on 21-Oct-2004 05:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (Sammy Nordström):
>In other words, it IS a matter of software that needs further refinement, now
>isn't it?

Even if the current situation is solved, there is still the issue of on board sound for many systems sold that was never fixed.

There just seems to be a pattern emergening and that is not a very flattering pattern. Eyetech should fix this quick.
Food for thought : Comment 61 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 21-Oct-2004 05:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (Graham_nli):
"Now I'm sure that lots of people here know that VIA aren't the only source of PCI attached southbridges. Surely another provider could have been found?"

Do you know of another supplier whose chips are available in small quantities? That seems to be the problem.

I do think Eyetech could take VIA to court over this. It is hard to see any reason why a company should sell chips and refuse to supply accurate documentation.
Food for thought : Comment 62 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 21-Oct-2004 07:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (Graham_nli):
Point me to one that is available in <10k quantities (or in fact available at all). I wanna know.
Food for thought : Comment 63 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 21-Oct-2004 07:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (Olegil):
And doesn't have a huge SuperIO off-chip, I might add... If southbridge + SuperIO are in two chips, you'll get more benefit from using good IDE + crappy southbridge. Because you won't find any PCI southbridges with ATA133... Not that ATA133 is possible on PCI anyway, except in very short bursts...
Food for thought : Comment 64 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 21-Oct-2004 07:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (Olegil):
Does it matter anymore? In mA1-C VIA 686B works, right?
Food for thought : Comment 65 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 21-Oct-2004 08:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (itix):
How the heck would I know? I haven't even SEEN a µA1 ;-)
Food for thought : Comment 66 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by samo79 on 21-Oct-2004 10:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (Fabio Alemagna):
Hi Fabio, about AmigaOne/OS4 you always spare FUD so if you are very "competent" and brillant way after 9 YEARS AROS is equal or near to ZERO ?

Remember respect the other people if you want to be respect, if you know how to realize a better platform you are to demonstrate it.

Genesi realize a very similar platform, why you are trolling just on Amiga work ?
Food for thought : Comment 67 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 21-Oct-2004 10:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 66 (samo79):
AROS equal or near zero? umm.. yeah..ok...
Food for thought : Comment 68 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by restore2003 on 21-Oct-2004 10:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (redrumloa):
IMHO the aros team are wasting their time on AROS, they would contribute much more if they supported both MOS and OS4, and that would help both platforms to get forward.

But don`t kick me, it`s only my humble opinion ;o)
Food for thought : Comment 69 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by samo79 on 21-Oct-2004 11:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (restore2003):
Don't blame me, I think that AROS is a good project, but just now is not usable like AmigaOS4 or MorphOS.

Just my 2 cents :-)
Food for thought : Comment 70 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 21-Oct-2004 11:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (restore2003):
AROS code is used in MorphOS, and changes and bugfixes by the MorphOS team are available to AROS developer. (Not sure how much the AROS team got benefit from this.) And Zune. MUI is no longer developed for 68k AmigaOS. With Zune 68k AmigaOS users can (could) get MUI clone for free. Found this one too: ftp://de.aminet.net/pub/aminet/util/libs/ReqToolsLib.lha
Food for thought : Comment 71 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 21-Oct-2004 13:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 66 (samo79):
Sigh...
Food for thought : Comment 72 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 21-Oct-2004 14:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (restore2003):
"IMHO the aros team are wasting their time on AROS, they would contribute much more if they supported both MOS and OS4, and that would help both platforms to get forward."

IMO the oint of AROS is to have an Amiga-style OS available in case both AmigaOS and Morphos disappear from the market.
Food for thought : Comment 73 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by samo79 on 21-Oct-2004 14:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (Fabio Alemagna):
Sigh (Part 2)
Food for thought : Comment 74 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 21-Oct-2004 14:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 72 (Don Cox):
> IMO the oint of AROS is to have an Amiga-style OS available in case both AmigaOS
> and Morphos disappear from the market.

You're all wrong. The point of AROS is to please the people who work on it, for whatever reason they do it. If others happen to like it, so be it. I can assure you, no one in the team works on AROS for the reason you've given.
Food for thought : Comment 75 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 21-Oct-2004 15:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 72 (Don Cox):
The R in AROS is for Research, not for Replacement.
Food for thought : Comment 76 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Graham_nli on 21-Oct-2004 17:14 GMT
AROS is good and a worthy thing to develop, regardless of any reason.

AmigaOS 4 is good and a worthy thing to develop for PowerPC systems, and it is nice to have an official path onwards.

AmigaOne ATX ... unsure about the worthyness of this hardware, and VIA has caused way too many problems to be worth dealing with again.

AmigaOne iTX ... seems like good hardware because of the Sil0680 which will get rid of the last issue regarding AmigaOne hardware. However it isn't exactly modern.

Future: Let's catch up with the rest of the marketplace. I don't necessarily care too much about the G5 if Freescale are going to be making 2GHz G4 derivatives (e600) and dual-core G4 derivatives next year. But features like SATA, PCI Express and so on would be nice.
Food for thought : Comment 77 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Oct-2004 17:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 75 (Christophe Decanini):
"The R in AROS is for Research, not for Replacement."

It was the other way around in the beginning though (if I recall correctly). ;-)
Food for thought : Comment 78 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin on 21-Oct-2004 19:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (Sammy Nordström):
>Fabio, you have read Alan's explanations for those problems.
>Yes, the one where he explained that due to VIA's inability
>to cooperate, they are forced to reverse engineer the VIA

It would be interesting to know WHY VIA isn't going to
provide support. They don't care OR they have some sort of
developer support program that Eyetech can't/don't want to
join?

I'm curious, because I'm not exactly sure that reverse
engineering software is a fair way to proceed.
As an example, I remember that some die hard Amiga
Inc fans (eg. mr.Samo79) attacked Genesi when they were
convinced that mOS was based on reverse engineering of
AmigaOS source code. Now the same people consider correct
what Eyetech is doing.

I guess that reverse engineering will turn into the "devil"
side if someone will use it on OS4 to allow it run on stable
ppc hardware ;-)
Food for thought : Comment 79 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by JKD on 21-Oct-2004 19:52 GMT
Actually, I think the comment you might have been looking for was the one by Alan from Eyetech stating that the Earlybird hardware was identical in every respect to the production hardware and it was been sold to those who wanted to participate in OS software beta (linux and then, eventually, OS4 when the beta was ready.)...I'm paraphrasing of course!

I wonder if a little research can dig this gem up or whether time has erased it!!!!
Food for thought : Comment 80 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin on 21-Oct-2004 20:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 66 (samo79):
>Hi Fabio, about AmigaOne/OS4 you always spare FUD

FUD? Are you the same Samo79 who spread false stuff on forums moderated
(ermh, censored) by you about possible OS4 versions of anything
released for PC platforms? You aren't so different from Amiga inc when they
announced the development of Mario64 for AmigaDE, ;-)

I for first don't like Fabio attitude in many threads but, about OS4/A1,
he just says facts. If youu don't like them don't read, but please
try to avoid to accuse him of fud.

Also, will you answer here to my question? You accused Genesi of
illegal reverse engineering of AmigaOS source code. Now
it turns out that it's Eyetech that will do reverse engineering on VIA
drivers w(hich aren't exactly open source). Is this OK for you?

Let us know if you are impartial or not. ;-)
Food for thought : Comment 81 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by JKD on 21-Oct-2004 20:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 79 (JKD):
Curiously enough there's no NEWS archive on Eyetechs site (that I could find...) Ah, what a wonderful thing the internet is:

http://web.archive.org/web/20030113023345/www.eyetech.co.uk/addbar.php?Address=/NEWS/AMIGA003.HTM

http://web.archive.org/web/20030113023720/www.eyetech.co.uk/addbar.php?Address=/NEWS/AMIGA002.HTM
Food for thought : Comment 82 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 21-Oct-2004 20:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (JKD):
Ah.. sweet old memories.. (written 15th march 2002)

"The AmigaOneG3-SE is now production ready and orders for discounted developer/dealer/OS4 beta-tester boards/systems are now being taken (but only until by midnight on Sunday 24th March GMT 2002) for delivery in April. This closing date is necessary so that we can assess the volume required in this initial production run and place the order with the manufacturers. Purchasers of these boards will also be able to obtain a discount on the full user version of OS4.0 when it is released.

If you have previously applied for beta-tester or dealer status YOU MUST REAPPLY as we no longer require beta testers for the A1 board itself, only for OS4 and applications that run (or should run!) under it. Please order via our website here. If you are a dealer, please mention this on your order, and a dealer price will be forwarded to you.

The main production run will be timed so that boards are ready at the same time as the consumer release of OS4, probably in May 2002. "

Were they a bit too optistic at that time?
Food for thought : Comment 83 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by JKD on 21-Oct-2004 21:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 82 (JoannaK):
This was one of my favourites:

"Will it run Linux?"

"Yes - in fact that's how the AmigaOneG3-SE hardware design was debugged...."
Food for thought : Comment 84 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin on 21-Oct-2004 21:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 82 (JoannaK):
>>The main production run will be timed so that boards are ready at the same time as the consumer release of OS4, probably in May 2002. "
>Were they a bit too optistic at that time?

No, the word is not "optimistic"...

Just consider that OS4 betatesting program started in the
early autumn of 2002 and at that time OS4 was far, really
far, from the early betas showed on summer 2003.

They made people believe that A1 was a stable hardware with an upcoming
OS, while that simply wasn't true, nor they were able to test it.

Alan himself admits this in the famous test, so one wonder
how he could have talked about OS4 being released in May
2002 when now he states there wasn't software to test the
hardware on. ;-)
Food for thought : Comment 85 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Oct-2004 22:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 82 (JoannaK):
Some more key phrases with regards to the topic at hand, in addition to what people have pointed out earlier in eg comments no. 33 & 47 to 49:

"The AmigaOneG3-SE is now production ready..."

"... we no longer require beta testers for the A1 board itself, only for OS4 and applications ..."

"A limited number of developer/dealer AmigaOneG3-SE boards will be available for delivery in April to those placing orders by midnight on Sunday 24th March GMT. These will be fully functional and tested boards identical to those produced in the first production runs."

From the PR of 01 nov 2002:

"AmigaOneG3-SE and AmigaOne-XE Earlybird Systems now on sale!"

"... us holding back shipments of the consumer version of the Amig gaOneG3-SE. That is until now!"

"This design [TeronPX/A1-XE] is now ready to go into production alongside the AmigaOneG3-SE."

Emphasis mine.

Finding statements about functional hardware and being "AmigaOne licence" compliant is easy. Not that customers would have to hear a company explicitly say that "the stuff we sell is working" to be protected. If a company sells something to consumers, EU law lets customers take for granted that it's working, unless otherwise noted. I'll be surprised if this is different in other parts of the industrialized world.

What's impossible to find are official disclaimers from Eyetech or dealers about faulty hardware, incorrect specs in advertising and invalid warranties -- because there aren't any such disclaimers! Such disclaimers, prominently posted where customers reasonably can't avoid to read them before purchase, would've been necessary for Eyetech to have posted before even thinking about behaving like they're behaving now.
Food for thought : Comment 86 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 22-Oct-2004 07:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 82 (JoannaK):
> Were they a bit too optistic at that time?

The Amiga One is not alone in this. Every single Articia based project I know about, has either been delayed considerably and/or cancelled.
Food for thought : Comment 87 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Panda on 22-Oct-2004 13:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 80 (Gabriele Favrin):
Are you Gabriele Favrin, the same who post on AmigaPage with another nick, AlterEgo, a fantasy person created only to support your crusades on that web sites?
Your dirty tricks has been discovered, and the funny thing is that you was that stupid to show it by yourself.
And, just to be sure, it needed only a phone call to have a confirmation that AlterEgo and GF are the same person...

PS: avoid the lame excuses about the IP numbers used, please.
Food for thought : Comment 88 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin on 22-Oct-2004 15:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 87 (Panda):
>Are you Gabriele Favrin, the same who post on AmigaPage
>with another nick, AlterEgo, a fantasy person created only
>to support your crusades on that web sites?

Let's see...

1) I discussed with Alterego and we flamed a bit before
understanding each others and start talk seriously.

2) I use Wind ADSL, he uses Telecom ADSL and with GeoURL
on our IPs you can see that we are from different locations.

3) Lot of people seen US TOGETHER on the Amiga italian IRC
channel and I have logs of us chatting.

4) Your post is OT and trollish and doesn't add anything
to the discussion.

Next time you'll tell people that I'm also the owner of
AmigaPage (who agrees with my opinions - and even let me cde
his RSS feed generator) and one of moderators (who also
agree with me)? Maybe I'm also Decanini who sometimes agreed
with me here? ;-)

Thanks for the funny break, now please let us adults
talk about serious stuff.
Food for thought : Comment 89 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by samo79 on 22-Oct-2004 19:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 80 (Gabriele Favrin):
>>>
FUD? Are you the same Samo79 who spread false stuff on forums moderated
(ermh, censored) by you about possible OS4 versions of anything
released for PC platforms? You aren't so different from Amiga inc when they
announced the development of Mario64 for AmigaDE, ;-)

Hi, MR Poing/Gabriele Favrin, AltErego

If you want to accuse me you must demonstrate it, also i'd like to know when i write any news in the italian forum that is not true.

I think that this is you last trolling that I will have to read, because

1 - I cancel the Amigapage portal from my bookmark
2 - Your portal now is empty thanks to your great trolling work
3 - I don't read english portal, except for the quick news

Ciao
Food for thought : Comment 90 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Seiya on 22-Oct-2004 19:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 87 (Panda):
Ehm..
I think you made some confusion :)

Gabriele Favrin is Gabriele
AlterEGO is another user...

You can check Gabriele Favrin IP and AlterEGO IP from the comments page of AmigaPage site..

Why you had to say these thing?

Gabriele Favrin and AlterEGO are also member of #AmigaITA channle on ircnet!
Salut :)
Food for thought : Comment 91 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin on 22-Oct-2004 19:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 89 (samo79):
> ... AltErego

OK, now it's clear from what people this bullshit started...
panda, use your true nick next time... ;-)

>If you want to accuse me you must demonstrate it

I just asked you if reverse engineering is still that "bad
thing" now that you know it's/will being done by Eyetech on
VIA drivers. You always accused Genesi to sell an illegal
product, but obviously don't say anything against Eyetech.
Thanks, now your position (and your partial behaviour) is
clean to anyone, including ALL people you accused to spread
fud or be trolls, here and there.

>also i'd like to know when i write any news in the italian
>forum that is not true.

OS4 version of the kickoff clone, OS4 version of the other
game by an Amiga developer, news ripped from sites and so
on... there is a long list.

>I think that this is you last trolling that I will have to
>read, because

Curious. I'm a troll, Fabio is a troll, anyone who criticize
A1 or Amiga is a troll. Well, you said this long ago: "troll
is who criticize Amiga after an evil project to destroy this
dream". I can even find your original post on AmigaPage...

[AmigaPage]

>2 - Your portal now is empty thanks to your great trolling work

Wow, I knew... now I'm also Amigapage owner? ;-)
I'll inform Marco of the ownership change ;-)

Judging from how much people writes and reads news there I
wouldn't say it's empty, but from now hopefully will be free
from your trollish posts.

>I don't read english portal, except for the quick news

And jump in, accuse someone of spreading FUD, criticizing an
operative system...

You started this flame, I asked you to answer to a simple
question and if this is your reaction, I don't see any
reason to annoy the other readers anymore.

Ciao! ;-)
Food for thought : Comment 92 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by samo79 on 22-Oct-2004 20:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 91 (Gabriele Favrin):
>>> I just asked you if reverse engineering is still that "bad
thing" now that you know it's/will being done by Eyetech on
VIA drivers.

I was write that is not good this practise, i just intend that this practice would be the last chance if is it true that VIA doesn't send a relative documentation to Eyetech

TO BE CLEAR I don't like to see any reverse engineering.

>>>
OS4 version of the kickoff clone, OS4 version of the other
game by an Amiga developer, news ripped from sites and so
on... there is a long list.

1 - The Kick Off clone is TRUE, i was speak privately with a developer of this game and he was very happy to doing this, or release his code to other programmer when the final game is done.

2 - YOU must tell me when i write this as NEWS, it was just a thread when i speak with the Kick Off coder for the possible porting

3 - I don't know why YOU GABRIELE FAVRIN write comment about, when YOU don't know anything, i must tell you taht if you shup up in this situation is better for your reputation

4 - If you have doubt or question, why you have not written in the specific forum (TGMOnline), why ANN ? Nobody here know about this ipotetical porting

Other trollish comment, i'm afraid

>>>
You started this flame

No no, the flame is started when "The Inquisitor" open this discussion ;-)
Food for thought : Comment 93 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin on 22-Oct-2004 20:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 92 (samo79):
I'll only answer to this last post to be correct.

>I was write that is not good this practise, i just intend

No, you repeteadly accused Genesi to sell illegal stuff
based on reverse engineering. While mOS is not based on it,
now you either must change your statements about r.e. or say
the same against Eyetech.

>that this practice would be the last chance if is it true
>that VIA doesn't send a relative documentation to Eyetech

We DON'T KNOW why VIA doesn't give documentation. Maybethere
is some development agreement that one of the two parts
dosn't want to accept?

>TO BE CLEAR I don't like to see any reverse engineering.

That's a step in the right direction but not enough from who
used his position to spread fud against an alternative to
A1/OS4.

>1 - The Kick Off clone is TRUE, i was speak privately with
>a developer of this game and he was very happy to doing
>this, or release his code to other programmer when the final
>game is done.

Doing this while not even owning an A1 would be a bit
difficult, and I hope you don't expect a PC game to be easky
portable on AmigaOS. In one word: right now there isn't an
OS4 version of it on the way, exactly as there wasn't (the
first time you 'announced it') an os4 version of an Amiga
adventure and so on. Why talk on this here? Because it's you
tthe one who accuses other people to spread false
informations.

>3 - I don't know why YOU GABRIELE FAVRIN write comment
>about, when YOU don't know anything, i must tell you taht if
>you shup up in this situation is better for your reputation

Yes, yes... thank you for your interest, I appreciate it.
Really. It's more or less the same thing I thinked when
I've read your first post here, especially this statement:
"after 9 YEARS AROS is equal or near to ZERO"

>Other trollish comment, i'm afraid

Too bad you can't close this thread as you are used to do
somewhere else. But you are trying to accomplish the same
result, because...

>>You started this flame
>No no, the flame is started when "The Inquisitor" open this
>discussion ;-)

No, Samo. We are not on forums moderated by you. This thread
revealed and proven some really bad behaviours from Hyperion
and Eyetech. The links found by JKD are serious stuff
because they shows Eyetech LIES to customers. That's not
FUD nor flame, that's truth.

So if you have anything useful to add to this thread (as I
did pointing out that at October 2002 OS4 was nowhere near any
release state, while Eyetech announced it for May 2002) please
tell us. If you (or your friends - you know who you are)
want only to turn this into a flamebalt and force moderators
to drop the thread, don't waste your time. Relevant links
have been saved and will come back in future threads.

And, Samo, next time don't beleive to anything people says
you. I'm not AlterEgo and I suppose there is a increasing
level of paranoia somewhere near you. ;-)

Is this worth for a (boing) ball?

EOD on my side.
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