| [News] Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 | ANN.lu |
| Posted on 25-Nov-2002 12:05 GMT by Jens Schönfeld (Edited on 2002-11-25 13:27:25 GMT by Christian Kemp) | 171 comments
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Thendic France will have 30 Pegasos computers on display at ARC 2002. All employees of Genesi will be present, and there will even be a small museum with rare computers! Update: Raquel Velasco and Bill Buck point out that there will only be 30 machines instead of the figure of 50 mentioned earlier, since that is all that is going to fit in their allocated space.
Thendic France has increased their exhibition area, making themselves the biggest exhibitor of AMIGA + RETRO COMPUTING 2002. The reason for this extension is the amount of computers that they are presenting. Visitors of the show have the opportunity to persuade themselves of the combination of the new PPC board and MorphOS. The same amount of computers will be provided for the betatester-cxonference that will take place on the same weekend in room "Berlin 1" of the Dorint-Hotel "Quellenhof", which is located right next to the Eurogress. Thendic France has finalized the booking of this room during a meeting that took place in Aachen on november 21st.
The new company Genesi that unites Thendic France and bplan Germany will be present with all personnel at the show. More than 20 developers of hard- and software will answer your questions.
Read more about the technical data of Pegasos, that has been provided by Thendic France.
In addition to the new machines, Thendic will also bring part of their museum to Aachen. Rare machines like the Walker (Amiga successor that has never been produced) and 8-bit commodore machines will be on display at a separate booth. All the machines are still intact, so you can experience them in action!
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 101 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Nicholai Benalal on 26-Nov-2002 13:02 GMT | In reply to Comment 100 (dirigent):
Do you believe in excuses like that? :-) |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 102 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by amigammc on 26-Nov-2002 13:19 GMT | In reply to Comment 66 (Steve):
>So maybe now Bill has changed his mind, but the official position of
>Amiga Inc at the beginning was to go AmigaDE only.
Yes, that is correct, but it has nothing to do with Ralph Schmidt. I was there when the announcement was made, I can actually say that I was there before the annoucement was made as Bill McEwen sent me the slides prepared for the show to be used on Quantum Leap. Moreover we discussed this in a meeting room at the hotel and definitely the work of Ralph Schmidt had nothing to do with it. |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 103 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by José on 26-Nov-2002 13:22 GMT | In reply to Comment 84 (It's MEEEE!!!!):
"They based their wonderful API on all the technical documentation provided by Phase5 at that time, not on their research, if you use technical information provided in good faith for development purposes and you use it against the people who provided it, how do you call it??? Back Stabbing!"
Against? What about if that didn't happen and you or me wanted to do our own API later on as users. We couldn't make our software because they didn't want us to?! And what technical info you're talking about? How do you writte software without hardware info? Using just their API right?
I think you resume it quite well, when you say everyone is protecting their jobs. But who what's to control more? Like someone said, where is MOS for other hardware for example? |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 104 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by priest on 26-Nov-2002 13:25 GMT | In reply to Comment 87 (It's MEEE again!):
Just think about it.
Which one is more propable:
- Independant SW company developing SW for several hardware platforms?
- HW company developing SW for competing HW? |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 105 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 26-Nov-2002 13:27 GMT | In reply to Comment 95 (catohagen):
" well, the END USER CD isnt AVAILABLE YET IS IT ??"
*applause*
Well done, you are getting there.
The question referred to what comes on the USER CD (this arose from a question as to whether MUI was red'g or not).
A troll replied by quoting what was on his CD, passing it off as the USER CD when it was, plainly, the BETATESTER CD.
Hence the reply that the description of what was on the BETATESTER CD was totally irrelevant to the question of what was on teh user CD.
Are you getting there yet? |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 106 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by turinturumbar on 26-Nov-2002 13:37 GMT | In reply to Comment 103 (José):
>I think you resume it quite well, when you say everyone is protecting their
>jobs. But who what's to control more? Like someone said, where is MOS for other >hardware for example?
Jose, Thendic-France and bplan had publicly stated that MOS, will run in many different hardware solutions. It has being successfully tested in the Teron CX motherboard (A1), all the PowerUP cards, Pegasos and they intend to do a Mac Version.
Regards. |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 107 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by José on 26-Nov-2002 13:47 GMT | In reply to Comment 106 (turinturumbar):
That's something I'll have to see to believe:) |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 108 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 26-Nov-2002 13:55 GMT | In reply to Comment 70 (Stefan Blixth):
Stefan wrote:
"Gunne (GGSData) had a really old version of the Quark-kernel and
Ambient desktop, I had a lot of troubles with it when I first got
my machine. The latest one runs more or less flawless (note it's still a BETA).
Do you really think that OS4 will work w/o any problems just when it's first
will be available for the A1 ?"
-What version was demoed in Gothenborg, whats the current release?
-Why did MOS feature the same bugs when demoed at WOASE?
-The latest version runs flawless, but only when it's not beeing publically demoed??? :-)
"Be logical and not so f***ing narrow minded!"
I not "Fucking narrow minded" I point out some problems I have experienced with MOS/Pegasos.
I pointed them out because you where the (F-word) narrow minded person who said the bugs where just rumours which they are clearly not. |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 109 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Nicholai Benalal on 26-Nov-2002 14:32 GMT | In reply to Comment 104 (priest):
"Which one is more propable:
- Independant SW company developing SW for several hardware platforms?
- HW company developing SW for competing HW?"
The answer is less obvious than it might appear. I know of only one company that managed to profitably sell an OS and stay out of hardware production (Microsoft). They can do that because they are big enough to make sure their software ships with almost all hardware they target.
In the end, based on empirics, I think option number two is the more likely. Cooperation between hardware manufacturers to share software is not uncommon.
Regards,
Nicholai |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 110 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 26-Nov-2002 14:45 GMT | In reply to Comment 50 (Troels E):
[Regarding crashy IBrowse and ImageFX at the Gothenburg Pegasos show]
I demoed the Pegasos at this show (without any crashes, of course),
and I guess it was too bad that you didn't ask me about these problems
you experienced.
Anyway, I know there have been some emulation-related problems with
ImageFX previously, I've never experienced crashes but I can't say it
might not have been related. Bugs have been fixed, though (the
Gothenburg show was already a long time ago now :). Also, ImageFX was
never perfect by itself either. I use it a lot on my A4k and I've
learned how to avoid the most serious bugs.
As for IBrowse, it's already quite unstable by itself. I think even
Stefan Burström would admit this (at least he did at the Gothenburg
show :). Don't get me wrong, I like IBrowse, I have registered it, and
I'll definitely get the next version with bugfixes. But I don't think
that because it crashes on MorphOS, that says something about MorphOS,
unless you can reproduce it and show that this doesn't happen under
AmigaOS.
As for crashing CED and such, it really surprises me. This has never
happened to me. All in all, yes, especially with earlier versions,
there have been bugs which cause some applications to crash even when
they don't crash on a normal Amiga. But there are two important things
to notice here: Many of these problems have been fixed (again, the
Gothenburg show was a long time ago), and: This is in my opinion not
"instability", because the crashes are far from random. I've
experienced many problems with my Pegasos in the last 4 months, but in
every case they have been identifiable, reproducible bugs and never
something I would call general "instability" (which to me implies some
randomness).
MorphOS has been demoed in a beta state, which implies that some bugs
are present. Furthermore, it hasn't just been shown with "clean
demonstrations", with some experienced person who can avoid all the
known bugs, instead any visitor has been allowed to try it out
themselves.
I think the people trying to spread the image that MorphOS is "crashy"
definitely seem to have an agenda. My personal opinion is that MorphOS
is at the core quite stable, but that there are a number of clearly
identifiable problems - and that these problems are rapidly being
taken care of. |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 111 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Stefan Blixth on 26-Nov-2002 14:45 GMT | In reply to Comment 108 (Anonymous):
Posted by Anonymous (80.62.224.221) on 26-Nov-2002 14:55:42
In Reply to Comment 70:
>>"Gunne (GGSData) had a really old version of the Quark-kernel and
>>Ambient desktop, I had a lot of troubles with it when I first got
>>my machine. The latest one runs more or less flawless (note it's still a >>BETA). Do you really think that OS4 will work w/o any problems just when it's >>first
>>will be available for the A1 ?"
>-What version was demoed in Gothenborg, whats the current release?
>-Why did MOS feature the same bugs when demoed at WOASE?
The version Gunne had on the show was dated 24'th of August if not
earlier. And much had happend since that version (even at that time).
It's almost a new version out every day since the people behind isn't
slow to fix bugs that's being reported to them. I can't answer why he
used this old version. I can however ask him since I'm in daily contact
with him incase that could help you find an inner peace or something.
I don't know about the WOASE since I wasn't there.
>-The latest version runs flawless, but only when it's not beeing publically >demoed??? :-)
All versions after 24'th of August has been working fine on my machine, yes.
>>"Be logical and not so f***ing narrow minded!"
>I not "Fucking narrow minded" I point out some problems I have experienced >with MOS/Pegasos.
>I pointed them out because you where the (F-word) narrow minded person who >said the bugs where just rumours which they are clearly not.
The F-word was unecessary (sorry for that), but you have to understand that
some people tends to think that everything would work exacly as before.
Due to a lot of bad programmed tools (that hits old custom chipset) a Pegasos
and A1 (for that matter) obviously will not work properly with such stuff to beginning with. It's well known that only system friendly stuff is going to
work properly, blame the program and the one who demoed it instead of the OS.
/Develin |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 112 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Stefan Blixth on 26-Nov-2002 15:03 GMT | In reply to Comment 110 (Johan Rönnblom):
So that was your machine, I thought it was Gunne's sorry for that :)
As you say, IBrowse 2.2 is unstable (somehow) and 2.3 will solve all (most?)
problems as stated on their ML.
As for other tools, I can tell you that ADPro works very well (I havn't got ImageFX to test with) CED is rock solid on my machine.
And I even use DOpus as WB-replacement, and I only found one "crashy" thing
about that and that's the built in text-reader that locks the system if
the slider is pulled fast (like a maniac).
/Develin |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 113 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by MonkeyOS on 26-Nov-2002 15:41 GMT | In reply to Comment 74 (Stefan Blixth):
> I use my Pegasos 24/7 as well as my other Amigas at home.
you did it again! Stop implying that MOS is the NG Amiga! This is only turning Amigans off of it completely! If people like you let MOS/Thendic/Gensi whatever stand on it's own 2 feet as it's own product, maybe some interest will come about! But with this leech suck off real Amigans get pissed. |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 114 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Troels E on 26-Nov-2002 15:48 GMT | In reply to Comment 110 (Johan Rönnblom):
@ Stefan & Johan
Thanks for the clarification. I know there's bugs in MOS (and in OS4..) and it's good to hear they are taken care off fast. I will probably never buy a Pegasos but alternatives are (allmost) allways a great thing to have
My post was not made to put MOS in a bad light but was an answer to Stefan's "rumour" comment.
(the anonymos post was offcourse me forgetting to write email/name:-) |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 115 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by turinturambar on 26-Nov-2002 16:00 GMT | In reply to Comment 107 (José):
Yes! Exactly in the same way that OS5.0 will be ready in 12 months ;-)
Perhaps we are all just a bunch of beleivers (a group of people waiting more than 10 years for the return of a dream couldn't be named less than beleivers, and before you ask me I include myself in it)
Regards. |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 116 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by dirigent on 26-Nov-2002 16:04 GMT | In reply to Comment 101 (Nicholai Benalal):
@Nicholai
[About AI's problems and apparent changes in direction]
> Do you believe in excuses like that? :-)
You mean if I chose NOT to believe these quite plausible reasons and attacked AI instead and called them idiots and liars, I could have much more fun? Yeah, probably you're right... Well then again... maybe not. ;-(
Greetings,
dirigent |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 117 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Jedi on 26-Nov-2002 16:18 GMT | In reply to Comment 113 (MonkeyOS):
> > I use my Pegasos 24/7 as well as my other Amigas at home.
>
> you did it again! Stop implying that MOS is the NG Amiga! This is only
> turning Amigans off of it completely! If people like you let
> MOS/Thendic/Gensi whatever stand on it's own 2 feet as it's own product,
> maybe some interest will come about! But with this leech suck off real
> Amigans get pissed.
Who are you to say to people what they must think ?...
For me, MorphOS on Pegasos is really the new modern AmigaOS on the new powerfull Amiga PPC I've waited for many years. And I take my liberty to say that, it's my right. Your reality is not the universal reality.
And I think it's more intelligent to say that Pegasos/MorphOS is really a new Amiga-PPC/AmigaOS-PPC (mainly after to have tested/used it in live) than to say it isn't the NG Amiga because it has not the "Amiga" name.
That's the difference with the integrism and the fanatism guy... |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 118 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by DaveW on 26-Nov-2002 16:24 GMT | In reply to Comment 117 (Jedi):
<sarcasm>
I happen to like Linux/390 so from now on I'm going to call that the next gen Amiga OS...
</sarcasm> |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 119 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Frodon on 26-Nov-2002 16:38 GMT | In reply to Comment 118 (DaveW):
Hello Dave,
In fact, why not if you are happy with it :) I know you were kidding
but it's not so stupid anyway. I think everyone here have his idea of
what he like in the AmigaOS and so if he can find an other OS which
have what he liked on AmigaOS and so he really feel that this OS is
the NG AmigaOS for him, why not.
For example i've already seen past AmigaOS users who switched to
BeOS and say that for them it's the new AmigaOS. It's a perfectly
respectable opinion.
Regards |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 120 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by catohagen on 26-Nov-2002 16:42 GMT | In reply to Comment 96 (Jedi):
>Read again the last News from Thendic-France...
>(if you have always not understood :
>-> Until Aachen : Betatest version of Pegasos/MorphOS (and CD)
>-> After Aachen : Final and commercial release of Pegasos/MorphOS (and CD)
>Is it clear for you now ?...)
well, i tried looking for the text about the final and commercial release of
morphos at the morphos news pages, but i cant see it....
I see there will be a betatester conference at the Aachen show....
More than 20 developers of hard- and software will answer your questions.
ah..w8...The Pegasos will be commercially released at the Amiga+Retro Show in Aachen on December 7-8...
ok...i guess its this..it was just confusing, it reads the Pegasos will be commercially released...I thought that was the hardware... :) sorry... |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 121 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by catohagen on 26-Nov-2002 16:51 GMT | In reply to Comment 119 (Frodon):
Hello,
ofcourse we have the right to think whatever we want....
well, i gotta go to the local amiga shop and get me some dvd-rw discs, I gotta
make some backups of my DVDs with Nero on my amiga, because the kids tend to
scratch the dvd discs when ejecting them from the dvd drive...
btw, I just got Corel Draw 11 for Amiga today....weee...i love ordering
software off the net...im off to make the christmas cards....see ya
confusing ? |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 122 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by pixie on 26-Nov-2002 16:55 GMT | In reply to Comment 26 (JoannaK):
"Supporting 3.x is quite dead end nowdays and 4.0 has been coming allmost 2 years now ... Expecting all SW/HW developers just to keep on waiting??? "
Ma chérie, the same can also be said about MorphOS U know, it works both ways... |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 123 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by anonymous on 26-Nov-2002 16:59 GMT | In reply to Comment 77 (Senex):
@Senex
"'Thendic has no interest in Amiga users' - wrong. Often repeated but wrong."
Interesting comment, particularly since the position originally came from Thendic. It's just the developers we want to attract they claimed.
"Genesi cares for the community, visits many Amiga shows and fairs. They support creative and dedicated users and developers, for example by discounts."
Oh, terrific. Enlightened self-interest maybe? Let's be real: if Genesi really wanted to work on good faith they'd license OS4 for the Pegasos. Do they have to? Of course not. Would it sell more boards and software? Definitely.
And where exactly were these saviours when Gateway was selling off the Amiga assets? |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 124 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Frodon on 26-Nov-2002 17:03 GMT | In reply to Comment 121 (catohagen):
Hello,
Yes I agree that people should not name MorphOS strickly just AmigaOS
but MorphOS.
But they are perfectly free to think that for them it's the way they
see the future of the Amiga and so to think that FOR US it's a new
AmigaOS. Just like lot of old Amigans who have became BeOS users have
already done. This doesn't change that they call it BeOS but they
often say when they talk to Amiga users: "For me BeOS is what the new
AmigaOS should have been. SO for me it's the new AmigaOS".
It's just their opinion and should be taken like this. And for now
i've never seen anyone here calling MorphOS simply AmigaOS. They
always call him MorphOS but yes sometime some people say that for us
it's a new AmigaOS. Again it's a very respectable opinion.
Regards |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 125 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by pixie on 26-Nov-2002 17:07 GMT | In reply to Comment 47 (anonymous):
Strange things happens here on ann, anonymous calling eachothers by the name... anytime soon they start to breed! Lol! |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 126 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Frodon on 26-Nov-2002 17:08 GMT | In reply to Comment 124 (Frodon):
Hello,
Ooops sorry, please replace FOR US by FOR THEM in the previous post
Regards |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 127 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Kronos on 26-Nov-2002 17:22 GMT | In reply to Comment 123 (anonymous):
And now tell me, how could Thendic/Genesi sell JUST ONE extra board if they had
an OS4-licence as long as their is no OS4 ?
Tell you what, they might even sell less as some people would wait on the OS4-
bundle who might just buy a Pegasos now.
You would be right if OS4 had appeared before or at the same time as the Pegasos,
but that is clearly not the case, which making the licence a sure killer for OS4. |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 128 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 26-Nov-2002 17:33 GMT | In reply to Comment 109 (Nicholai Benalal):
@Nicholai
"The answer is less obvious than it might appear. I know of only one company that managed to profitably sell an OS and stay out of hardware production (Microsoft)."
I'm sure the Linux solution providers and embedded systems people would question that, but that's another story entirely.
However, by the same logic no one has managed to sell a proprietary OS/hardware combination and remained a viable player. Apple? Hardly. Look who subsidizes their survival and develops their leading applications. PDAs? Soon an interesting footnote in history.
Speaking of which, people need to get it through their heads that two Amiga operating systems aren't worth a rodent's caboose if there is no decent software available for the system. The whole reason people buy technology is to fulfill a need. |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 129 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Chritophe Decanini on 26-Nov-2002 17:40 GMT | In reply to Comment 124 (Frodon):
In one of the first Jean Louis Gassee interview the journalist asked him:
How would you define BeOS ?
He answered:"In two words: Amiga 96"
http://amiga.emugaming.com/beos.html
BeOS was great but different from AmigaOS.
MorphOS is promising (and soon to be released) and LIKE AmigaOS
AmigaOS4 looks promising too (however at an early stage than MorphOS). |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 130 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by catohagen on 26-Nov-2002 17:42 GMT | In reply to Comment 124 (Frodon):
>Yes I agree that people should not name MorphOS strickly just AmigaOS
>but MorphOS.
>But they are perfectly free to think that for them it's the way they
>see the future of the Amiga and so to think that FOR US it's a new
>AmigaOS. Just like lot of old Amigans who have became BeOS users have
>already done. This doesn't change that they call it BeOS but they
>often say when they talk to Amiga users: "For me BeOS is what the new
>AmigaOS should have been. SO for me it's the new AmigaOS".
>It's just their opinion and should be taken like this. And for now
>i've never seen anyone here calling MorphOS simply AmigaOS. They
>always call him MorphOS but yes sometime some people say that for us
>it's a new AmigaOS. Again it's a very respectable opinion.
Maybe morphos users feel they need the 'Amiga' identification in the
outside world ?
Amiga have a bit of more weight in the name than morphos...and you want to take
this with you down the road.
Imagine 4 people in an elevator, it stops...and you press the emergency
button....The guy in the speaker tells you it takes about 10 mins to
reset/fix the damn thing..
So one of the guys starts to talk....do you like computers ? yes ?
what os ? windows? linux ?
what Do you answer ?
A. I use Morphos, its new....you probably dont know what it is..
B. I use Morphos, its an Amiga'ish OS with the same feel and spirit (..)
With saying like B, you do see that the name matters alot... |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 131 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 26-Nov-2002 17:48 GMT | In reply to Comment 128 (Anonymous):
"Apple? Hardly. Look who subsidizes their survival and develops their leading applications."
Go on then, who?
Oh, and before you rush to answer, it's not Microsoft - they sold most of their stake in Apple quite some time ago, and they develop a total of two apps for the Mac - IE (which they no longer develop) and Office (which they are about to find faces stiff competition from OpenOffice which is being ported with Apple's assistance).
So who is it who is "subsidising" Apple's existance, please? |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 132 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Stefan Blixth on 26-Nov-2002 17:49 GMT | In reply to Comment 113 (MonkeyOS):
Posted by MonkeyOS (209.86.189.166) on 26-Nov-2002 16:41:25
>> I use my Pegasos 24/7 as well as my other Amigas at home.
>you did it again! Stop implying that MOS is the NG Amiga! This is
>only turning Amigans off of it completely! If people like you let
>MOS/Thendic/Gensi whatever stand on it's own 2 feet as it's own
>product, maybe some interest will come about! But with this leech
>suck off real Amigans get pissed.
I use it as my main Amiga, that's why I count it as an Amiga what's
wrong with that ? I'm not using any alien life form program to read my
mail, I use YAM as I always has, IBrowse to browse the net, AmIRC to
chat etc... If I would follow your thinking then my a4k isn't an Amiga
either since it has a "alien" PPC inside beside it's 68k companion and
uses WarpOS ?
And I have NEVER implied that MOS was the NG Amiga, why can't you
read what is actually wrote earlier on instead of toss away a angry
letter to someone you obviously call a unreal Amigan... Well the last
line of your text just make me laugh out loud, as I am a real hard
core Amiga user... Ask anyone who knows me and you'll see.
/Develin |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 133 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Frodon on 26-Nov-2002 18:00 GMT | In reply to Comment 130 (catohagen):
Hello,
I would rather say that MorphOS users that think that it's a new
AmigaOS are simply old AmigaOS users. It's exactly like BeOS users
that think that BeOS is the new AmigaOS for us, just because they were
AmigaOS users and when they saw BeOS they immediatly thought: "It's
what a new AmigaOS should have been, I want it!".
It's not more difficult. It's perfectly understandable and
respectable.
Regards |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 134 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by frodon on 26-Nov-2002 18:01 GMT | In reply to Comment 133 (Frodon):
Again same mistake: not "for us" but "for them" (i've difficulties
tonight :) ) |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 135 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by frodon on 26-Nov-2002 18:03 GMT | In reply to Comment 133 (Frodon):
In fact people are always link what they experience to things
they know, it's valid for everything in the life. |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 136 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Frodon on 26-Nov-2002 18:10 GMT | In reply to Comment 130 (catohagen):
Hello,
For your little questionnary:
C - I use MorphOS, it's a very fast and very cool OS. Just look (Here
I take my Eclipsis from my pocket and show him all what I can do and
how fast I do it :) ).
His answer: Ouahou indeed it's impressive! :)
;)
Regards |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 137 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Nicholai Benalal on 26-Nov-2002 18:29 GMT | In reply to Comment 128 (Anonymous):
In my opinion, Apple is still a viable player indeed. Why would that argument
be invalidated by Microsoft developing applications for their OS?
Apart from Apple, I could name companies like IBM and Sun having the same approach.
There have been and still are other very good examples.
.
As for examples of hardware makers with an inhouse OS sharing it with others, I know it's
harder to find examples but I do think that such a cooperation could work out. Support for the
competing hardware would have to contractually regulated. You formulated your original
question to sound like it had only one obvious answer. In my opinion, that is not true. |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 138 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anders Ericsson on 26-Nov-2002 19:04 GMT | I've waited too long to care wether or not my new "Amiga" has the actual logo/name Amiga or not. I knew a lot of people who said that it wasn't an Amiga anymore if it had a PPC card in it.
I think it's pretty worthless to discuss the new systems in this "flame war" way. Facts are all that count. When I get hold of both machines and OSes to try for myself I will decide which one I'm going for. Regarding hardware, they're too much alike for me to really care which one I buy. I hear they've run MorphOS sucessfully on an AmigaONE so I hope we will see AOS4 on the PegasOS too, so everyone can decide for themself.
But to express my opinion at the present:
I currently favour the PegasOS/MorphOS, mostly because my friend Stefan Blixth from OnyxSoft (the most hardcore Amigan I know BTW) has one and I've tried it out.
But also because these are the guys that saved us when the Walker project (which would have been the first PPC Amiga) was cancelled. They continued developing their PPC cards and made the Blizzard/Cyberstorm PPC's.
They were also the first on Amiga with PCI slots (mini PCI, which is the gfx slot on the PPC cards).
Then we have MorphOS which has been developed for a couple of years now, so it's pretty stable now. As Stefan said, most programs that crash woould have done the same on our A4k's.
But I will personally wait and see... Daniel (also from OnyxSoft) is going for an AmigaONE, so I'll get my chance to compare.
Ahh, don't know what to write know except maybe: Read the comments more carefully before bashing people (like Stefan) =)
/OnyxSoft - Amigans never surrender, they know they can do it better |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 139 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Senex on 26-Nov-2002 19:23 GMT | In reply to Comment 123 (anonymous):
@anonymous (216.221.81.91):
And of course you do have the URL with such a quote from Thendic for
everybody here to check your claim, don't you? |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 140 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anders Ericsson on 26-Nov-2002 19:30 GMT | And one more thing. The difference between considering MorphOS a new "Amiga OS" compared to for example Linux and Windows is that it runs Amiga applications per default. That means you still use your old software like YAM, AmIRC, IBrowse.
So saying "Ok now I'll call <OS of choice> the new AmigaOS" is not really the same thing as MOS, now is it? |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 141 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Darrin on 26-Nov-2002 20:12 GMT | In reply to Comment 110 (Johan Rönnblom):
Johan wrote:
>>MorphOS has been demoed in a beta state, which implies that some bugs
are present. Furthermore, it hasn't just been shown with "clean
demonstrations", with some experienced person who can avoid all the
known bugs, instead any visitor has been allowed to try it out
themselves.
LOL. I'm sorry, but I don't think you've fully realised what you have written. Basically you're trying to say that MOS is extremely stable as long as you don't run any programs that are known to crash on it and avoid some of the features on others that do. You also feel that "users" (potential customers) are at fault because the mistakenly want to run all Amiga software and use all of it's functions!!!
Damn those idiots! Imagine buying Microsoft Office and being told that you can't run Excel and the spell checker on Word will crash if you use it - and that it's not Microsoft's fault, but yours for being so unreasonable that you want to use all of the features of the software you've paid for.
You must remember that these "users" are being allowed to play with these machines in the hope that they'll buy the product available (at that time, the Betatester). It is not unreasonable for them to explore the full functionality of the BetaTester and it's their right to know what it can (and more importantly) what it can't do. If it was your hope that the demonstration should have been fixed to make it look like everything runs perfectly then that is almost a CRIME and misrepresents the product. Likewise, when OS4 is demo'ed we should get to see its failings too.
Don't be ashamed that MOS has bugs - accept them, announce them.... and fix them. Just don't lie. :) |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 142 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 26-Nov-2002 20:54 GMT | In reply to Comment 121 (catohagen):
cool
A Amigauser who has been given a towered A1200 060/50 by his older brother to make way for the older
brothers Aone.
then goes out & buys Corel Draw 11 for his A1200 & boy will he be happy when he puts the CD in his A1200 |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 143 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Daniel Miller on 26-Nov-2002 22:13 GMT | In reply to Comment 72 (catohagen):
catohagen typed:
> ...They are deliberatly try to split/stir up the community, and doing
> everything they can to break out fights in the community...*YES THEY ARE*
You mean that yes you and your crowd are. It makes no sense for MorphOS
supporters to try to split the community. Why would they do that? They want
the whole community to use MorphOS. It is you and your crowd who try to split
the community, because you want to drive MorphOS supporters out.
MorphOS is part of this community. Most of this bad stuff is just because
people tend to fear change. But change is good.
> Come on, what really was the meaning with the latest 'we hold Amiga licence
> and patents' stunt ??
As Christian explained, that comment was said in passing and then it was
upgraded to a headline and totally blown out of proportion but who cares? Are
you saying it was part of Genesi's "malevolent master plan?" ;)
> And the shit about the 'We took the blue pill' wallpaper....so, the rest of
> the community took the red and like in a dream ? and Amiga Inc are... "the
> matrix" ?? A proffessional business wouldn't go for such 'below the belt'
> tricks...
You know all this time I thought it was the blue pill that put one in a dream
but I guess I haven't been keeping up properly with these conspiracy theories.
You say this is below the belt but this is just an example of you imagining
things, IMO! The blue pill thing was a funny gag but I am glad they are not
using that much anymore because it could be interpreted as having something to
do with drugs. |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 144 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by MIKE on 26-Nov-2002 22:46 GMT | In reply to Comment 76 (Stefan Burström):
Stefan, were you involved in the negotiations? I didn't think you were, the problem was AInc. all the way with Hermans (their vaunted legal team) advising them down a path where he gets the contract and takes control, that was the main problem (as well as the incompetent feeling you get of AInc. negotiating with them). |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 145 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by turinturumbar on 26-Nov-2002 23:26 GMT | In reply to Comment 141 (Darrin):
Darrin!
I'm not trying to argue with you; but I think that he states more o less the same as you replied but using different words.
Regards. |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 146 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Darrin on 26-Nov-2002 23:39 GMT | In reply to Comment 145 (turinturumbar):
Hi mate,
No-one argues here... we "discuss" ;-)
The way I read it was that he was saying that it only crashes because users do the things that make it crash they should be kept away so that we can't see it crash.
I say that the whole point of demoing a machine is so people can see if it crashes. Also, the whole point of selling Betatesters is to put them in the hands of people who can make them crash - and then find out why.
That's the way I read it... I may be wrong. :) |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 147 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by itix on 26-Nov-2002 23:41 GMT | In reply to Comment 141 (Darrin):
> LOL. I'm sorry, but I don't think you've fully realised what you have written.
> Basically you're trying to say that MOS is extremely stable as long as you
> don't run any programs that are known to crash on it and avoid some of the
> features on others that do. You also feel that "users" (potential customers)
> are at fault because the mistakenly want to run all Amiga software and use
> all of it's functions!!!
You certainly miss something here. Certainly there will be software that wont work under MorphOS nor OS4. Remember what happened for certain 'working' software when AmigaOS was upgraded to 2.0.
OTOH i have seen cases where original 68k software is not working properly due to bug in MorphOS. But those get fixed quite fast. |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 148 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 26-Nov-2002 23:46 GMT | In reply to Comment 141 (Darrin):
You're reading stuff into my comment that definitely isn't there.
Basically, a presentation can be made in two ways. Either you just let
some "insider" show off the product. Then you can hide flaws and
problems, if the presenter is skilled and knowledgable enough.
Or you can let ordinary visitors try it out for themselves. Of course
this is more "risky" as they might find problems - but also more fair.
This way people with an agenda might do all they can to find problems
and brag about this on the internet. But also, more seriously
interested people will get an idea of what the system is actually
like. Maybe they too will find problems - and report them.
Well - I think you could figure out which option Thendic/bPlan/Genesi
has chosen.. and with them, myself, as I worked with them on the
Gothenburg show. But you seem to prefer trying to read my mind and
calling me an (almost) CRIMINAL and a liar? Well, I'll let everybody
judge for themselves who's being fair and who's not. |
|
| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 149 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Teemu Suikki on 27-Nov-2002 00:12 GMT | In reply to Comment 130 (catohagen):
(Someone asks a MorphOS user what computer he has)
The correct answer depends on the education level and computer history
of the person asking. This can be judged by clever questions and
general outlook (long hair, beard?). Then, choose the answer:
#1:
(Person asking has no idea what Amiga or MorphOS is, or
seems to think that Amiga is a game console):
- I'm using MorphOS, it's a revolutionary new operating system based
on Quark microkernel, running on PowerPC microprocessor. It is much
better that Windows!
- Whoa, that sounds awesome!
#2:
(Person asking knows about "high level" Amiga use, perhaps
has owned one before):
- I'm using MorphOS, it is a new operating system for PPC
processors. It is very much Amiga-like, and even old Amiga
applications run.
- Whoa, that sounds awesome!
#3:
(Person asking is an active Amiga user):
- I'm using MorphOS, it's a PPC OS that runs on Pegasos and old
Amigas with PowerPC accelerators.
- Whoa, that sounds awesome!
--
Teemu |
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| Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 150 of 171 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Darrin on 27-Nov-2002 00:31 GMT | In reply to Comment 147 (itix):
>>You certainly miss something here. Certainly there will be software that wont work under MorphOS nor OS4. Remember what happened for certain 'working' software when AmigaOS was upgraded to 2.0.
Oh no - I've "been there, see in, done it" :) My first Amiga used WB1.2, my second used WB1.3 (and was later upgraded to a 2.x/1.3 dual boot), my third used WB3.0 (as did my fourth, fifth and sixth) and now I'm using 3.5. I've fought with different software programs trying to "coax" them to run on later Amigas. Can anyone tell me how to get Supremacy to run on a KS3.1 A1200 or A3000???
The point against your comment is that if Thendic want us to belive that MOS is perfectly stable (like some people have told us) then for god's sake only install stable programs from users to play with. If you install programs that can (easily) crash then don't blame anyone other than yourselves when someone reports it and don't call them liars or make lame excuses.
Fact: MOS runs. Fact: MOS crashes. Opinion: It's the softwares' fault. Fact: Mos will become more stable as it is updated. |
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