| [News] Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip | ANN.lu |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 101 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by mahen on 06-Dec-2002 21:02 GMT | In reply to Comment 100 (mahen):
Oops, sorry, I didn't want to say that.
But it's boring reading insults, camps theories etc... |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 102 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Don Cox on 06-Dec-2002 21:07 GMT | In reply to Comment 89 (Some Farker):
">Did each of the CIA's have a name?
"Gary", IIRC."
No, Gary is a different chip - a Gate Array. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 103 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by ikez on 06-Dec-2002 21:15 GMT | In reply to Comment 100 (mahen):
like yours i believe. Repeated argument over all post isn't particulary interresting. We're near spam.
ikez |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 104 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by takemehomegrandma on 06-Dec-2002 21:22 GMT | In reply to Comment 99 (JoannaK):
> Well.. considering the tone it was announced it's not wonder people started
> to thow all imaginable ideas on th air. Speculations like USB2 and some
> other even wilder ideas have been heard.
Well, to be honest, ... well ... *I* was one of them that ... kind of .. *hoped* a little ... perhaps(?!) ... tooo much! Aaarrrgh!
(I am just listening to "living on a deadline" by "dutch people" on m1live.com, and I would like to explain my ... erm, hopes ... in the the following frase: "living in a vacuum [and wanting/hoping that some interesting things will happen]")
> I heard kinda interesting rumours about it's uses beoynd fixing some known
> (+some lesser obvious) stability issues of PCI busses. BUT I'm not to repeat
> them cause if it's true then it's going to quite big bang to some. I'm quite
> sure we know a lot more in about next 12-16 hours. Afterall I'm not
> expecting to keep these secrets anymore than necessary :)
Nice to hear. Nothing wrong in keeping secrets (for shorter times, hehe). After all, there is nothing wrong in supporting the show as a place to release news. There has to be something to premiere those who goes to the shows, IMHO.
I wish I could go to the show!
(From http://messe.think42.com/): "The main focus of the show will be on Amiga-related products. The biggest highlights will surely be the new mainboards "Amiga One" and "Pegasos". The title "Retro Computing" does not mean that this is a nostalgia meeting or even a fleamarket for old computers. Just the opposite. The exhibitors will show that the technologies of the homecomputers of the 80s are still improved today, and that they're still available as new products in the 21st century.
With AmigaOne and AmigaOS 4 on the one side, and Pegasos with MorphOS on the othe side, the Amiga - multimedia wonderbox of the late 80s - is ready for a comeback with high-performance PowerPC processors." |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 105 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by mahen on 06-Dec-2002 21:34 GMT | In reply to Comment 103 (ikez):
I try to summon the common sense of people, and urge
them to avoid being agressive. If you call this spamming... :(
You post was agressive and stupid. The post you replied too
was maybe a bit too pro-morphos but full of common sense.
You may disagree, but please argue in an intelligent and
friednly way. We are not enemies. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 106 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by mahen on 06-Dec-2002 21:37 GMT | In reply to Comment 103 (ikez):
Well, more clearly, I want to balance the quantity of
agressive posts or with the same point of view with
positive posts or with the other point of view.
b/c if it's not balances, people reading the thread will think
everyone thinks this way.
if it's agressive, they'll be disgusted by the community
so I have to show we can be civilized too |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 107 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 06-Dec-2002 22:07 GMT | In reply to Comment 96 (TheArrogantSarny):
Nope, not at all, no reason to do anything like that. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 108 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by ikez on 06-Dec-2002 22:11 GMT | In reply to Comment 106 (mahen):
k, i understand. I'm maybe a little agressive cuz this is always the same ppl. That's why it begin boring, lawd says so, takehomegrandma says so, eva, ... They seems to congratulate each others. That's remember me session in england parlement :). Their comment are sometimes interresting, but they repeat, repeat always the same.
Time will tell, so we have just to wait.
ikez |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 109 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 06-Dec-2002 22:19 GMT | In reply to Comment 108 (ikez):
I suppose by now most people are aware of certain people and tend to simply ignore their bs. I hope so. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 110 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 06-Dec-2002 22:21 GMT | In reply to Comment 107 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
> Nope, not at all, no reason to do anything like that.
True, noone would pirate morphos anyway ;-) |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 111 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 06-Dec-2002 22:23 GMT | In reply to Comment 87 (ikez):
> You convince yourself and only morph zealot, and you boring.
Ah, there it came again. "MorphOS zealot". Well done. The standard retort, just as easy to blurt out like "BAF" or whatever. What I wrote had nothing to do with MorphOS, AmigaOS or any other OS, or any of the "sides" that the Real zealots have invented in their imagination, but hey, someone disagreed with the Trademark licensing corporation and/or a licensee. That makes whatever I wrote easily dismissible as "MorphOS zeal".
I know I can't convince you of anything, ikez, and I'm not trying to. You have a cozy little dream world there, with comfortably and clearly defined "sides" and "enemies". Dream on. Party on. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 112 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Lawd on 06-Dec-2002 22:27 GMT | In reply to Comment 111 (Anonymous):
And that was me BTW, as if anyone couldn't tell that. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 113 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by takemehomegrandma on 06-Dec-2002 22:44 GMT | In reply to Comment 108 (ikez):
> I'm maybe a little agressive cuz this is always the same ppl. That's why it
> begin boring, lawd says so, takehomegrandma says so, eva, ...
Oh, IKEZ! I saw that we later this evening were on the sem Class A network, and so I thought we were kind of family. And now you say THIS!! Arhg!
;-) (Blinking smiley to the left!!!)
Seriously, Please(!) don't put me in some kind of a 'camp'! I am a free-thinking liberal individual, and not part of any kind of conspiracy or any kind of a group.
I just wanted to make that clear! |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 114 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by ikez on 06-Dec-2002 22:54 GMT | In reply to Comment 112 (Lawd):
k sorry on these post, have reread and its pretty neutral.
Have read too much post on one shot :).
ikez |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 115 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Stefan Burström on 07-Dec-2002 01:46 GMT | Hm, looking at these pictures it seems as this solution is targeted the
released boards. I wouldn't use this solution for a production run simply
because you cannot do 2d x-ray inspection of the soldering since the ArticaS
bga will shadow the patched PCB. I really hope DCE is using 3d x-ray otherwise
it is hard to guarantee reliability of the boards.
(Btw thouse of you who have been talking about the min delay of the latice
chips, you are forgetting that the PCB delay will be substantial due to
the rerouting in the mini PCB)
regards,
Stefan |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 116 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Kronos on 07-Dec-2002 04:42 GMT | In reply to Comment 115 (Stefan Burström):
Putting such a chip (April or whatever the Teron gets) on the mobo would require
serious rerouting, and I really doubt that this will happen when MAI plans to
deliever a fixed Articia next summer. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 117 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by JoannaK on 07-Dec-2002 05:19 GMT | In reply to Comment 116 (Kronos):
There is rework being done to AmigaOne Xe.. it's been annouced to contain On board audio (including Codec this time)... So it's likely they try to fit this modification into it.
My only hope is that they have found all bugs.. It would be *real* bad to make lot's of fixed board with bugs remaining.. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 118 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 07-Dec-2002 07:02 GMT | In reply to Comment 117 (JoannaK):
Once system boards are released to the general public in large quantities more and more bugs will most likely be found. I just hope companies like bplan and Hyperion have the technical knowledge and skills to offer fixes or workarounds by modifying the firmware or OS system components/drivers. Having to recall and modify boards would be a nightmare. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 119 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 07-Dec-2002 10:24 GMT | ) Genesi added a hardware hack to circument some rumoured "bug", degrading performance by adding an additional step.
) Apparently Mai cant be bothered to fix this "bug" (any time soon) - how serious is this "bug"?
) Linux seems entirely unimpressed by this "bug" - how serious is this "bug"?
) Genesi had to announce something before the weekend to raise interest and discredit the competitors product (umm, fud anyone?).
The show could get pretty interesting after all ... will there be only more mystery talk or finally some facts?
Well, one thing is already clear, no matter how many units are sold, genesi will declare that they have "won" because the community accepts the pegasos as the second comming ;-) |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 120 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 07-Dec-2002 11:14 GMT | In reply to Comment 119 (Anonymous):
btw, I wonder what it costs to replace ~200 pegasos boards ... up to 100.000€ is no small loss ... otoh cpus could be reused which probably drops that number quite a bit. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 121 of 146 | ANN.lu |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 122 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 07-Dec-2002 11:48 GMT | In reply to Comment 119 (Anonymous):
) Genesi added a hardware hack to circument some rumoured "bug", degrading performance by adding an additional step.
It's not a rumoured bug... It's quite a few reproducable bugs. And trust
Gerald Carda, he's a very good HW designed, the performance will not be
degraded... If the fixes are for the PCI stuff for example, the PCI bus
itself has 30ns latency, the chips will not slow it down...
People who talked about the rerouting of the lines, only needed stuff are
rerouted, and the length of the lines is not significant.
The Articia S on the pegasos is tilted by 45 degrees to ensure that all lines
have the same length and not to need yet another layer. I'm quite sure that
Gerald kept all lines at the same lenght with the fix as well.
) Apparently Mai cant be bothered to fix this "bug" (any time soon) - how serious is this "bug"?
Who told you they will not fix them? They will fix these bugs in the next
ArticiaS revision.
) Linux seems entirely unimpressed by this "bug" - how serious is this "bug"?
It's not unimpressed... See how the AmigaOne owners with the unfixed board
"fix" the DMA bug. Disabling ide DMA. And that's only one of the bugs.
) Genesi had to announce something before the weekend to raise interest and discredit the competitors product (umm, fud anyone?).
We'll see today. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 123 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 07-Dec-2002 12:15 GMT | In reply to Comment 122 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
>) Linux seems entirely unimpressed by this "bug" - how serious is this "bug"?
>It's not unimpressed... See how the AmigaOne owners with the unfixed board
"fix" the DMA bug. Disabling ide DMA. And that's only one of the bugs.
So youre saying this is the bug already fixed on the newer AmigaOne boards? |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 124 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 07-Dec-2002 12:20 GMT | In reply to Comment 120 (Anonymous):
Looking at the Artica-S + April modules, I fully expect that the same motherboards will be used - they will desolder the current northbridge, and then put on the new northbridge module with the extra bug-fixing logic.
Hence they won't have to swallow a 1000 board loss of around $500,000 - they will only have a loss of the cost of collecting, fixing and resending the motherboards back - probably around $100,000 although that is a wild guess. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 125 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 07-Dec-2002 12:24 GMT | In reply to Comment 123 (Anonymous):
Yes, newer AmigaOne's already have a similar fix to the bPlan fix for the PCI problem with IDE DMA. However Eyetech didn't make a press release announcing this chip but not saying what it was, and other general exaggeration and fud.
Which kinda makes all those posts about "Eyetech being incapable" and all that crap quite wrong. Who cares if the motherboard design and fixes and whatnot are outsourced to a competant company? It is the final result that matters. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 126 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 07-Dec-2002 12:33 GMT | In reply to Comment 122 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
) Genesi had to announce something before the weekend to raise interest and discredit the competitors product (umm, fud anyone?).
We'll see today.
The issue Alkis is not that the facts are ture or not that most ppl get upset about.
Its the tactics.I my self have never seen a firm discredit the competitors product by going to a show with the competitors product.
& even more so with out the competitors being there to try to insure that the testing was done as fairly as can be.
I would love to see what MicroSoft would do if Sony had a Xbox on one of there PS2 stands to show how easy it is to crash the Xbox & how hard it is to crash the PS2.
they could of done anything to the Xbox HW to make it unstable.
And Exatcly what version of the Aone are they showing, un unfixed one that will lockup ?
wich does not in its self make the Aone the lesser as a unfixed pegasos would bo the same.
Or are they going to use an Eyetech fixed version & prove that the eyetech fixed version is not enough in its self & needs the April fix, wich would make more sence.
but where is the proof that they will be useing an eyetech fixed version. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 127 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by mahen on 07-Dec-2002 12:34 GMT | In reply to Comment 126 (Anonymous):
Yes, I can't wait for reports... |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 128 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 07-Dec-2002 12:50 GMT | In reply to Comment 124 (Anonymous):
That reminds of sending boards back to DCD for repairs ;-)
Is it getting hot here? |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 129 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by ikez on 07-Dec-2002 13:00 GMT | In reply to Comment 113 (takemehomegrandma):
Hehehe,
Your welcome :)
ikez
"Ahh these forums ... If you don't like forums, read News!" |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 130 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 07-Dec-2002 13:44 GMT | In reply to Comment 123 (Anonymous):
That's one of the bugs, the well known DMA bug. This one is fixed on new AOnes. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 131 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 07-Dec-2002 13:45 GMT | In reply to Comment 125 (Anonymous):
Well, the April doesn't fix only that bug... It fixes other bugs as well.
Moreover it implements some new features. The features will be announced
today or tommorow at the Aachen show. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 132 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 07-Dec-2002 13:47 GMT | In reply to Comment 126 (Anonymous):
Whichever version they show, the AmigaOne fix only fixes the DMA bug.
The April fixes other bugs as well. I believe that they will demostrate
some of the other bugs. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 133 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 07-Dec-2002 14:02 GMT | In reply to Comment 132 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Well this has to be first amigashow that the main focus of the show is to show bugs. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 134 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 07-Dec-2002 14:09 GMT | In reply to Comment 133 (Anonymous):
They have LOT's to show and present... They will just show the bugs to
prove the stuff the said. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 135 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Lawd on 07-Dec-2002 14:16 GMT | In reply to Comment 126 (Anonymous):
Hello Alkemyst,
> Its the tactics.I my self have never seen a firm discredit the competitors
> product by going to a show with the competitors product.
It's not discrediting. Both the Teron boards and the Pegasos boards use the Articia S chipset. To prove to laymen who can't make any sense out of debugging data recordings that the bugs are indeed in this chipset, and not in your own product (the Pegasos in this case), you need to show that the same chipset bugs affect other products using the same chipset, like the Teron boards in this case.
Ergo: they should demonstrate the bugs on a Pegasos AND a Teron, both of them *without* the fixed Articia, and then compare it to the operation of a Pegasos *with* the fixed Articia. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 136 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 07-Dec-2002 16:02 GMT | In reply to Comment 135 (Lawd):
i argree but will they do going that test on the pegasos & both with the same OS running & running the same apps |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 137 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Elektro on 07-Dec-2002 16:03 GMT | In reply to Comment 135 (Lawd):
What a bunch of crap! Showing competitors products which are buggy is just so low. Even for a screw up company like Thendic. But then again nothing else was to be xpected from bill buck.
IF they wanna show pegasos boards with the fix working fine, thats ok. Everything else is just bull. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 138 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 07-Dec-2002 17:18 GMT | If Eyetech says the AOne contains bugs, there's no need to show this.
If Eyetech says the AOne doesn't contain any bugs (or they are fixed),
but in fact there are serious bugs, then Eyetech are not competing
fairly - in that case they are misleading their customers. In that
case the AOne doesn't work as advertised. And if this is true, any
competitor has the right to demonstrate this. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 139 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkemyst on 07-Dec-2002 17:44 GMT | In reply to Comment 138 (Johan Rönnblom):
i would think that the ppl who bought a dev Aone would not be happy about that & would off notice
any real bad bugs by now.
"And if this is true, any
competitor has the right to demonstrate this."
& when was the last time that you had seen that done ?
Even Microsoft has'nt done anything like that it its competitors. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 140 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 07-Dec-2002 18:07 GMT | In reply to Comment 139 (Alkemyst):
In the big world, it would be done through some independent journalist
or such.. who might very well get the tip from some competitor.
In the Amiga world however, there's hardly any journalism to talk
about, and especially nothing qualified enough to perform complicated
hardware diagnostics. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 141 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkemyst on 07-Dec-2002 18:33 GMT | In reply to Comment 140 (Johan Rönnblom):
Ok when have you know about that been done like that before in a world the size of amiga. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 142 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 07-Dec-2002 20:04 GMT | | Suddenly something strikes me as odd. The AmigaOne board has a fixed articia (at least for dma) on board but the april supposedly fixes the dma problem too (among others) .. so pegasos boards use the older, non-fixed south bridge? |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 143 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Kronos on 07-Dec-2002 20:22 GMT | In reply to Comment 142 (Anonymous):
There ARE no fixed southbridges before next summer, and whatever MAI uses
to fix those Terons it has to be outside the NB. Last thing I heard that
there is(was) an empty IC-pad near the NB which is now used for the patch-
chip, and that a few "flying wires" have been added. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 144 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by elektro on 07-Dec-2002 20:24 GMT | In reply to Comment 140 (Johan Rönnblom):
Sure man... Keep telling yourself that... |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 145 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by elektro on 08-Dec-2002 08:09 GMT | In reply to Comment 143 (Kronos):
There are no fixed southbridges AT ALL! And if there were no one here would know about it since this is VIA's territory. |
|
| Pictures of ArticiaS and April chip : Comment 146 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 08-Dec-2002 10:35 GMT | In reply to Comment 67 (JoannaK):
@JoannaK:
> I have to say that IMHO he's gone too low.. But perhaps it's cause he has nothing else left.
And how low it is that you provocate up to the stars Alan to publicly comment on every piece of this? (Not to mention you blame him behind his back.) |
|
| Anonymous, there are 146 items in your selection (but only 46 shown due to limitation) [1 - 50] [51 - 100] [101 - 146] |
|
- User Menu
-
- About ANN archives
- The ANN archives is powered by #AmigaZeux. It was updated daily (news last: 22-Oct-2004; comments last: 18-May-2005).
ANN.lu was created, previously owned and maintained by Christian Kemp, www.ckemp.com.
- Contribute
- Not possible at this time!
- Search ANN archives
- Advanced search
- Hosting
- ANN.lu was hosted by Dreamhost. Sign up through this link, mention "ckemp" as referrer and he will get a 10% commission on any account you purchase.
Please show your appreciation for any past, present and future work on ANN.lu by making a contribution via PayPal.
|
