| [Files] See AmigaOS4 in action | ANN.lu |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 201 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by z5 on 22-Sep-2003 19:23 GMT | In reply to Comment 199 (hooligan/dcs):
@hooligan:
we don't disagree ;) |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 202 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Jacek Piszczek on 22-Sep-2003 19:32 GMT | In reply to Comment 169 (Georg Steger):
That's what I wanted to say, Georg. Thanks for explaining it in an easier to understand way :) |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 203 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by hammer on 22-Sep-2003 19:58 GMT | In reply to Comment 35 (Mike Bouma):
>That you get better performances on a 466 MHz Celeron than me on a 1GHz Duron
>is quite remarkable. I know it has nothing to do with my PC setup as I have
>seen similar jerky performances on various other PCs while disabling the JIT
>engine.
Why try it on a proper AMD K7 processor setup?
I run my WinUAE 022R9(JIT turned off) with AMD Athlon XP @2.2Ghz/nForceII 400 Ultra/1GB RAM(Dual Channel). |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 204 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 22-Sep-2003 20:02 GMT | In reply to Comment 200 (Sonork):
1) Everything in MorphOS is PPC native.
2) I give up, I try to defend MorphOS from trolls like you, I get attacked,
I try to defend OS4 from trolls like Eva, I get attacked too. |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 205 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by hammer on 22-Sep-2003 20:11 GMT | In reply to Comment 141 (Raffaele):
>Think about the fact that Windows 95 was intended to be released as:
>Windows 85
Note that Microsoft was co-developing with IBM on OS/2... |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 206 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Mike Bouma on 22-Sep-2003 20:24 GMT | In reply to Comment 203 (hammer):
@ hammer
> Why try it on a proper AMD K7 processor setup?
> I run my WinUAE 022R9(JIT turned off) with AMD Athlon XP @2.2Ghz/nForceII
> 400 Ultra/1GB RAM(Dual Channel).
Because I am already contented with my systems (and like I pointed out also with the performance of WinUAE.) Somehow some people seem to think that I am not contented with the speed of WinUAE or something?!
Actually I am pleased with the performance when the JIT engine is enabled and considering I always enable JIT and only disable the JIT engine during the emulation when playing games or using certain programs there's little point to upgrading for that... I rather buy an AmigaOne when AmigaOS4 becomes available instead.
I will probably upgrade though when Doom3 or some other must have (hardware-)killer game becomes available. :) |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 207 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Sonork on 22-Sep-2003 20:33 GMT | In reply to Comment 204 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
> 1) Everything in MorphOS is PPC native.
Not true. There is no native TCP/IP stack in MorphOS yet.
> 2) I give up, I try to defend MorphOS from trolls like you, I get attacked,
Don't call me troll because I can call you liar (look at the not true info above). |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 208 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 22-Sep-2003 20:42 GMT | In reply to Comment 207 (Sonork):
Wrong, the MOS AmiTCP is native. So I'm not a liar. |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 209 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 22-Sep-2003 20:47 GMT | In reply to Comment 208 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Before you post anything like "Why should I trust you?", I'll say that if anyone
tells me that this and that in OS4 is native and I believe that he knows what he's talking about, I'll trust him. I have no reason to spread misinformation,
either you trust me and believe that it's native or not, I do not care. |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 210 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bernie Meyer on 22-Sep-2003 22:21 GMT | In reply to Comment 185 (dammy):
Most importantly, it predates Hyperion's involvement with OS4. I had say "you didn't see that!" quite a few times during early (very pre-release) Amithlon demos, while people were exploring what was on my machine's hard drives (and Kudos to all the people who in fact *did* keep quiet about it). And it was only several months after Amithlon's release that I ever tried any stack other than Roadshow on it. |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 211 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 22-Sep-2003 23:14 GMT | In reply to Comment 78 (Kronos):
>What I see here is something comparable somewhere in between MOS0.4 and 0.8
>(Cologne 01). It has less native modules than 0.4,but does run on new HW like
>0.8 did. It has some more fancy stuff than 0.4 (maybe even 0.8) but they >didn't
>show a JIT like it was in Cologne
??? the version running in Aachen last year was nearly unusable, crashing every second click!
It's absolutely indisputable that Morphos 1.4, that I saw running at Pianeta this weekend is far more mature and it's not comparable in speed with OS4.0, but only a few months ago (like at webb.it) the situation was FAR different...
Sad was the attitude of some of the MOS people there this weekend, overbearing where there's no necessity... may be the (bad?) surprise and fright causes undesired reactions? There's really no point compare the actual OS4 state with the state MOS was (should have been?) some years ago... |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 212 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 22-Sep-2003 23:20 GMT | In reply to Comment 87 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
>I will stand with Fabio in that one, my sister had been using UAE on the PC I
>use right now, which is a 700MHz Celeron, before UAE JiT was released
my WinUAE - I use it daily - is usable since I upgraded to a Celeron (Tualatin) 1200 (well, neither windows was very usable on my slower LapTop, before).. |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 213 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 22-Sep-2003 23:37 GMT | In reply to Comment 121 (Anonymous):
>Is it true OS4 was crashing liek hell?
OS4 didn't... some apps (especially preferences realated one, as not all the expected hardware drivers - like Amiga Input - where there) did, and was catched by the system debugger and the task killed..
The entire system surely didn't hang nearly that often like MOS did before the current, IMHO particullary stable and speedy, version... |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 214 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Stephane Desrosiers on 23-Sep-2003 01:09 GMT | In reply to Comment 213 (Anonymous):
Hmm... Downloaded the movies, didn't quite see OS4 being shown in a bad light. Yes, it could have been faster, but honestly, it's a lot better then I was expecting. :) |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 215 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by redfox on 23-Sep-2003 01:28 GMT | Well, it looks like Frodon and some of the MorphOS boys and girls had a good time cackling about the performance of AmigaOS4 running on the AmigaOne. They claim it is crap and Frodon (who, by the way, represents Hyperion's competitor), even supplied some video footage to support their theories.
You people embarass me.
So what did your videos show me?
I see AmigaOS4.0 running on AmigaOne! I see a product that is making great progress. IMHO this is very good news.
Congratulations to Ben, the Freidens and all the others involved in the AmigaOS/AmigaOne project.
---------------
redfox |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 216 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by hooligan/dcs on 23-Sep-2003 01:30 GMT | In reply to Comment 207 (Sonork):
Please stop now. There has been a native tcp/ip in MOS for a long time. It's just as released for public as Roadshow is. The missing part is GUI, btw, which is why it isnt included for beta2 testers.
It would be nice if you'd stop talking about things you know nothing about.. soon you'll end up being Eva pt2.
And we can barely handle one. |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 217 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Phill on 23-Sep-2003 03:39 GMT | In reply to Comment 190 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
>He's not drunk, he used something, probably not known to you, called "Irony".
Sorry. That's not irony, It was a lie to a direct question.
Phill |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 218 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by modo on 23-Sep-2003 05:47 GMT | | does eva really exist.....has anyone actually seen her?/him at the itailian show? |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 219 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by hammer on 23-Sep-2003 06:20 GMT | In reply to Comment 206 (Mike Bouma):
>Because I am already contented with my systems (and like I pointed out also
>with the performance of WinUAE.)
The point was that the Duron processor may not reflect the full blown K7/nForceII platform in relation to performance. I think there’s a HW hack that may turn an AMD Duron into AMD Athlon XP (256Kb L2 cache edition)(Another story).
>I rather buy an AmigaOne when AmigaOS4 becomes available instead.
It's your call in regards to your spending habits. |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 220 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Frodon on 23-Sep-2003 06:25 GMT | In reply to Comment 214 (Stephane Desrosiers):
Hello,
"Hmm... Downloaded the movies, didn't quite see OS4 being shown in a bad light. Yes, it could have been faster, but honestly, it's a lot better then I was expecting. :)"
Knowing lot of OSes I find it very slow. It's slower than Linux without acceleration on my Celeron 466MHz + TNT2 and slower than a MacOS X without any acceleration. In fact it's the slowest graphic performances I've ever seen on an OS.
But I suppose it's because it's an alpha version with lot of debug activated and I'll wait for a more advanced, optimized and non debug version to make me a real opinion on OS 4 performances. But this first impression was really bad.
Next time I think they should at least make a special show version with debug activated and as much optimized as possible.
Regards |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 221 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Frodon on 23-Sep-2003 06:36 GMT | In reply to Comment 215 (redfox):
Hello,
"supplied some video footage to support their theories."
So for you a video of the reality support a theory? Sorry but I find hard to understand that the reality can be a theory.
Btw in that case I only represent myself, that's to say a computer fan and particularly a Mac, BeOS, AmigaOS and MorphOS fan. The videos are just showing what have been showed in Pianeta Amiga 2003.
It shows the reality and so can't be used to support any theory, it's pure reality! Or maybe the reality itself is against OS 4 and biase itself to put OS 4 in a bad light? Damn in that case God must be a MorphOS advocate :) Be serious for one second please.
These videos represent only how was OS 4 as shown in Pianeta Amiga 2003. Of course it's only an alpha version and so very unoptimized, buggy with lot of debug output. We'll have to wait for a more optimized and debug free version later to really make us an idea of how OS 4 will perform in the end. These videos are just representing how it performed at Pianeta Amiga 2003.
Nobody can conclude anything from these videos. They are available for people who want to see how it performed at this show, nothing more.
Regards |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 222 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 23-Sep-2003 06:38 GMT | In reply to Comment 217 (Phill):
> Sorry. That's not irony, It was a lie to a direct question.
You need to go on a trip, pal. Seriously.
Or perhaps you already are... |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 223 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Frodon on 23-Sep-2003 06:40 GMT | In reply to Comment 220 (Frodon):
Hello,
"a special show version with debug activated."
Ooops it should be read: "with debug desactivated". Sorry.
Regards |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 224 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Eva on 23-Sep-2003 06:57 GMT | In reply to Comment 213 (Anonymous):
Dear Anonymous, telling that Aos not crash is BULLSHIT!
Now start to say that it's also stable and we can be happy to see another Aos4 troll post. |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 225 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Eva on 23-Sep-2003 06:59 GMT | In reply to Comment 215 (redfox):
And what are the advantage of AsoS4 respect to MOs.
Actually (and this are only opinions of some Aos4 developers and betatesters) none. |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 226 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Eva on 23-Sep-2003 07:02 GMT | In reply to Comment 218 (modo):
For your happiness, yes :D |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 227 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by modo on 23-Sep-2003 07:04 GMT | In reply to Comment 226 (Eva):
heh :D who saw you at the show then....which respectable people did you talk to? |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 228 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Phill on 23-Sep-2003 07:06 GMT | In reply to Comment 205 (hammer):
>>Think about the fact that Windows 95 was intended to be released as:
>>Windows 85
>Note that Microsoft was co-developing with IBM on OS/2...
FWIW Microsoft were working on OS/2 3.0 while IBM worked on OS/2 2.0.
The took Presentation manager out of OS/2 3.0, added Program Manager & it became Windows NT 3.51. AFAIK even Windows XP will still run OS/2 command line apps.
Phill |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 229 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Phill on 23-Sep-2003 07:11 GMT | In reply to Comment 222 (Fabio Alemagna):
>> Sorry. That's not irony, It was a lie to a direct question.
>You need to go on a trip, pal. Seriously.
>Or perhaps you already are...
No, you're the only one that seems tripped out. I still don't understand what you mean by "the answer was on the same line" thing, it's like you thought you wrote something but you missed it out.
If when you're trying to put your side of the argument across and somebody asks you a direct question, if you don't actually answer it & instead just say random sentences in response then it really doesn't help.
I pity anyone that has to deal with your kind of discussion on a day to day basis.
Phill |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 230 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 23-Sep-2003 07:21 GMT | In reply to Comment 229 (Phill):
If You tell me "you know nothing about emulators", and I tell you to look at the UAE page, then I'd expect you to spot my name in there and understand my point implicitely, which would be that I DO know about emulators. So, asking me "are you talking about those patches?" is a stupid question, which asked for a stupid/hironic answer.
Is that clear now, or do I need to make a drawing to explain it to you? |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 231 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 23-Sep-2003 08:05 GMT | Frodon: You *could* have made sure to capture a crash on your videos,
and spread that. Then we could all spend the next few years whining
about how unstable OS4 is. I'm sure a lot of people here would think
this would be a very fair thing to do! :-) |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 232 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Phill on 23-Sep-2003 08:35 GMT | In reply to Comment 230 (Fabio Alemagna):
>If You tell me "you know nothing about emulators", and I tell you to look at >the UAE page, then I'd expect you to spot my name in there and understand my
> point implicitely, which would be that I DO know about emulators. So, asking
> me "are you talking about those patches?" is a stupid question, which asked
> for a stupid/hironic answer.
Oh, sorry for asking such a stupid question. FWIW I wanted to be sure we were both talking about the same thing, because you were so vague. I kinda expected you to say "yes I meant those two patches", because otherwise if I'd made an assumption ( something you like to do alot ) then it could have drawn out the conversation even longer. I really hope you have the same attitude when going for a job interview & answer any questions that you think are obvious with such stupid responses.
If a 5.8kb & a 20.6kb patch is supposed to make me think you know what you're talking about, then sorry no it doesn't. If you'd answered my original query properly then I would have told you that earlier.
Trying to win an argument by trying to impress the other person is very flawed & only works if the other person knows less than you do. Unfortunately for you there was no other possible way, because what you were arguing was wrong.
Phill |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 233 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Mike Bouma on 23-Sep-2003 08:41 GMT | In reply to Comment 219 (hammer):
@ hammer
> The point was that the Duron processor may not reflect the full blown
> K7/nForceII platform in relation to performance
I knew that, just like I know that the G5 CPU is faster than the G3 CPU and a Radeon 9700 faster than a Voodoo3. But my original point of bringing up JIT enabled/disabled WinUAE was only in relation to pointing out there are significant differences in performance. Somehow my comments side-tracked into a weird discussion of personal opinions (formulated as indisputable facts) about if 030/040-like speeds are sufficient enough or not. |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 234 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 23-Sep-2003 09:09 GMT | In reply to Comment 232 (Phill):
> Unfortunately for you there was no other possible way, because what you were
> arguing was wrong.
As said, think whatever you wish, there's really no point in arguing with you, given that *I* think that *you* are wrong. So unless a third party comes in taking one of us' sides, we'll have to agree to disagree.
And notice I didn't say you don't understand anything about emulators, which is a quite bold statement. So, for sure you've proven to be arrogant. Nice achievement on your part. |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 235 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Phill on 23-Sep-2003 09:58 GMT | In reply to Comment 234 (Fabio Alemagna):
Well I haven't said anything that makes me look as if I don't know what I'm talking about, so you haven't had the opportunity. You did say I was wrong with some flawed arguments that I wasn't allowed to point out, if you think that makes me arrogant then fine.
Also you don't really need to find someone else to pick sides.
Anyone that knows as much about UAE as you claim to, will know the situation between WinUAE/UAE & also the *UAE vs Amithlon speed differences.
Both of those back up my original comment.
Phill |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 236 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 23-Sep-2003 10:50 GMT | In reply to Comment 217 (Phill):
Sorry, but it was direct irony, you asked what he means and he answered
"No, I mean the website." ironically, cause it was obvious that he didn't
mean that. |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 237 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alex Klauke on 23-Sep-2003 11:31 GMT | In reply to Comment 204 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
> 1) Everything in MorphOS is PPC native.
And this is the only real difference AFAICS. For AmigaOS 4 it must read 'Not yet
everything in AmigaOS 4 is PPC native'. Other than that all modules are there,
just not yet compiled for PPC but 68k. On 68k the modules/program were beta
tested indepently, what has to be done now is 'just' compile anything left for
PPC and do a final beta testing of the entire system and the finishing touch,
including Documention, l10n etc. This can well mean several months more if done
conscientiously, but surely not years. For the CSPPC that is.
The AmigaOne may need some more development, graphics (fe. SNAP inclusion) as
the probably biggest part, but the biggest single step, getting it to boot on
the AmigaOne, is already done now within a mere 10 days (HAL porting). Just as a
proof of Hyperions concept.. ;-)
> 2) I give up, I try to defend MorphOS from trolls like you, I get attacked,
> I try to defend OS4 from trolls like Eva, I get attacked too.
Maybe that's the reason why the saying goes 'Don't feed the Trolls' ? ;-)
What I don't like are those people that think they know everything better, like
"I always knew that OS 4 development would last at least 2 yrs." (a certain K..)
even w/o knowing or even taking into account how much the substance of what was
to be done for OS4.0 had changed over time. You _never_ know what you'll do
before you do it, even more so in software development, I know it from my day
job.. :)
Yes, I admit I prefer AmigaOS4 as a genuine continuation of the AmigaOS.
That's the reason I got an AmigaOne, after all I needed a new machine anyway.
(and it has served me well 'til now :-). Sadly some people already read that
first sentence as attack on MorphOS, which it isn't. MorphOS was new and it had
to start somewhere, so it began with targeting at developing a means of
executing 68k AmigaOS progams on a PPC. Now that AmigaOS itself is continuing,
which was not foreseeable as MorphOS development was launched, there has to be
sth. more to attract people. Admittedly that was planned from the very
beginning (the 'box' concept). It just means that the focus shift for MorphOS
from providing an environment for 68k AmigaOS progs to something new had to be
given a higher priority (actually I do not know whether the QBox timescale has
changed at any point in time, it just seems likely after OS4 development had
started, but this thread is not the place to discuss that).
Attacking each other is wrong. But I also thought to remember that you at some
time spread 'facts' that I at that time already knew were not facts at all about
OS 4 and other things. Maybe I remember wrong. Most probably, yeah? ;-)
Once MorphOS is available for the AmigaOne w/o re-flashing the ROM I will try
it, and I've not yet outruled a PegII(III?), but the AmigaOne Lite is even more
tempting.. :)
Make your Peace.
Ciao, Alex |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 238 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Phill on 23-Sep-2003 11:48 GMT | In reply to Comment 236 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
>Sorry, but it was direct irony, you asked what he means and he answered
>"No, I mean the website." ironically, cause it was obvious that he didn't
>mean that.
Why was it obvious? Maybe, just maybe, I was wrong with what I thought he meant. However _I_ like to know what I'm talking about before I speak, it would be helpful if others would have the same courtesy.
My initial reaction was that Fabio didn't have a clue what he was talking about, but he claimed he did so I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
His inability to offer any form of evidence to back up his original claim about me lieing, and simply attack my choice of words when I said he knew nothing about emulation, because of what he was saying proves to me that pretty much he doesn't know.
Ok, he might have used some emulators, he may even have written a bit of code for one. But that doesn't mean you "know about emulation" in the same way that knocking up a hello world program in visual basic doesn't make you a programmer.
Fabio's arrogance means he offered poorly researched opinions as facts, which is the basis for most of his attacks on people.
He didn't know that I knew when he was blagging it though. It's possibly my fault, as he doesn't know how involved in the emu scene I am. I prefer anonymity to trying to impress people with who I am. IMHO facts are what is important, not who is saying them.
Phill |
|
| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 239 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Analnymous on 23-Sep-2003 12:30 GMT | In reply to Comment 236 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Sarcasm not irony. |
|
| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 240 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by dammy on 23-Sep-2003 12:39 GMT | In reply to Comment 238 (Phill):
> Fabio's arrogance means he offered poorly researched opinions as facts, which
> is the basis for most of his attacks on people.
So what emulation programs have you written by yourself?
Dammy |
|
| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 241 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 23-Sep-2003 12:57 GMT | In reply to Comment 238 (Phill):
> Fabio's arrogance means he offered poorly researched opinions as facts, which is
> the basis for most of his attacks on people.
You have the nerve to say *I* am arroganrt? Dude, the one questioning *my* abilities has been *you*. I don't need to prove that I *have* the abilities more than I just did, *you* need to prove that I don't have them, or at least provide proof that *you* know what you're talking about.
Let's see these emultors you've written, uh? |
|
| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 242 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Phill on 23-Sep-2003 13:36 GMT | In reply to Comment 240 (dammy):
> So what emulation programs have you written by yourself?
As I said I prefer anonimity & it's irrelevant to the discussion. Who you are doesn't change whether you are right or wrong. Sometimes I am wrong & then I don't mind being told.
But as you'll turn it into a "you're trying to make out you know more than you do", then most recently I have emulated a RISC system with 3D hardware. Two of the games I got working recently, haven't been seen running in an emulator by the public yet. I could also play Fabio's game of "knowledge by association", but it would involve listing alot of the top emulator programmers.
Phill |
|
| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 243 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 23-Sep-2003 13:42 GMT | In reply to Comment 242 (Phill):
Whoever you are doesn't change the fact that YOU started questioning my abilities, which is blatantly arrogant. Either you put a reference under your words, or you don't ask me any.
Besides, the point you made about how emulators work are all moot, as I showed, so please get over it: you could be the emumeister, for what concerns me, but you still can't distinguish what matters from what doesn't matter to the discussion. |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 244 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 23-Sep-2003 13:52 GMT | In reply to Comment 238 (Phill):
> Ok, he might have used some emulators, he may even have written a bit of code
> for one. But that doesn't mean you "know about emulation" in the same way that
> knocking up a hello world program in visual basic doesn't make you a programmer.
And you say you're not arrogant? What do you know about what I've done and what I've not done? Do you for example happen to know that some years ago I started programming an Amiga emulator? Do you know I went as far as building almost the whole chipset emulation and 50% of the CPU emulation? Do you know I then left that project get dusted when I got involved in other things, like the military service and AROS? Do you happen to know for how long and how much I studied UAE? Do you know how much I know of its internals? No, you don't know _any_ of these things, yet you make bold claims.
Let's get back on topic, shall we?
1) You said that we can't compare the CPU emulation of WinUAE and UAE, because they're different -> false claim, point moot.
2) You said that the gfx can't be compared because it's different: I said that if it's fast under UAE, it's even faster under WinUAE because there it's further developed, *meaning further optimized*, but then you went on with your ramblings about the fact that I obviously don't know anything about emulators, because further developed often means slower, which as I showed doesn't apply to this case.
So, great Phill emumeister, care to reply to those points instead of trying to discredit my abilities to talk about emulators? |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 245 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 23-Sep-2003 14:22 GMT | In reply to Comment 220 (Frodon):
>Knowing lot of OSes I find it very slow. It's slower than Linux without
>acceleration on my Celeron 466MHz + TNT2 and slower than a MacOS X without any
>acceleration. In fact it's the slowest graphic performances I've ever seen on
>an OS.
Thank you for once more clarifying this for us, it would have been such a disaster if not everyone realized these very important facts. But just in case to really make sure; what was your general impression on the speed of AmigaOS4 on an AmigaOne?
</sarcasm>
What really needs to be repeated in here is the fact that the graphics subsystem is still in 68k and only emulated by interpreted emulation rather than JIT. Furthermore, the debug was set to serial output at level 10 and the kernel has no L2 cache support yet. These are all very crucial factors with major impact on the performance, especially for the interpreted emulation. This is what is important to take into consideration, as in the speed issue should be completely disregarded at this stage, not analysed and compared with other systems.
However, when you guys keep repeating the speed issue over and over again, even when you have been informed about these circumstances, you give me no other choice but to conclude that you don't care about the circumstances or the actual intent of the demonstration. You have your own agenda and simply beeing happy about the fact that AmigaOS4 now boots on the AmigaOne is obviously not a part of it. You are intentionally looking for flaws and can hardly wait to point them out to everyone. I'm sorry but this is also what could be refered to as "trolling". |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 246 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Phill on 23-Sep-2003 14:24 GMT | In reply to Comment 243 (Fabio Alemagna):
>Whoever you are doesn't change the fact that YOU started questioning my >abilities, which is blatantly arrogant. Either you put a reference under your >words, or you don't ask me any.
Actually, if you really want to get pedantic. You originally told me I was wrong and I should trust you. So really you were arrogant first.
Phill |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 247 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Phill on 23-Sep-2003 14:27 GMT | In reply to Comment 244 (Fabio Alemagna):
>So, great Phill emumeister, care to reply to those points instead of trying
> to discredit my abilities to talk about emulators?
No I actually said the rest of the code was different, i.e. the code you said that was disabled when picasso was enabled, but actually isn't.
You obviously were too busy being right, you didn't bother what I said.
Phill |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 248 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 23-Sep-2003 14:31 GMT | In reply to Comment 246 (Phill):
> Actually, if you really want to get pedantic. You originally told me I was wrong
> and I should trust you. So really you were arrogant first.
I said you should "trust me"? Perhaps, I don't rememember, what I remember, though, is that I explained _why_. |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 249 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 23-Sep-2003 14:32 GMT | In reply to Comment 247 (Phill):
> No I actually said the rest of the code was different, i.e. the code you said
> that was disabled when picasso was enabled, but actually isn't.
Ok, then please list which are these components which are enabled AND are different between UAE 0.8.22 and WinUAE 0.8.22.
Let's talk about hard facts, shall we? |
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| See AmigaOS4 in action : Comment 250 of 269 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Phill on 23-Sep-2003 14:35 GMT | In reply to Comment 244 (Fabio Alemagna):
>No, you don't know _any_ of these things, yet you make bold claims
Actually, I did know of all of those things. You tend to brag alot about what you do. I have to admit, knowing what you previously claimed to know, I was a bit suprised you were so clueless about what you said.
i.e. bearing in mind the chipset emulation of WinUAE & UAE is not kept in sync, that comparing the speed of the two won't be meaningful. Either the chipset emulation isn't completely disabled by switching to Picasso mode or what I heard about Amithlon being faster because of this was a lie.
However if your cpu was only 50% then I guess it probably didn't run much, so that whole chipset emulation was barely going to be tested. If you'd have finished the cpu emulation then you would probably have had to rewrite the chipset emulation a couple of times to make it 100% compatible. This would have made it slower ( remember when I said improving emulation can make them slower and you said I was wrong too? ).
Phill |
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