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[Web] How many unpaid Genesi employees?ANN.lu
Posted on 27-Feb-2004 08:29 GMT by Christian Kemp214 comments
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In a thread titled "How many unpaid Genesi employees?" on Moo Bunny, Johan Rönnblom posted his story.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 201 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Lost souls on 02-Mar-2004 20:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 189 (Johan Rönnblom):
"I cannot answer you since I cannot decipher what you're trying to say. "

1) All AI contracts were for DE on Thendic hardware.

2) Thendic is owned by Pretory SA, i.e. this contract falls under the authority of the Bankruptcy court in France.

3) There is no contract for Genesi hardware and AI!

4) Further Thendic-France is the "exclusive master distributor" of Pegasos and MorphOS.

See: http://www.morphos-news.de/?lg=en&nid=191&si=1

18.1.2003 Genesi needs YOU! The team of bplan GmbH, the creators of the Pegasos and MorphOS, and Thendic-France SARL, the exclusive master distributor, will be merged into Genesi shortly.

5) The exclusive master distributor contract (listed in 4); and all other IP assets should be under the control of the authority of the Bankruptcy court in France. It should be treated as an asset and sold to the highest bidder!

6) Assets sold should pay employees, taxes, etc. owed by Pretory/Thendic.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 202 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Tigger on 02-Mar-2004 20:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 198 (samface):
>>>>
>Several people confirmed that they, too, got the same card at the
>trade show in question.

Again, prove it.
>>>>

Samface, Garry Hare handed out the card, neither Fleecy nor Bill McEwen have denied that, now almost a year later. Fleecy dances around it, and McEwen was coming to Amiwest to prove he was still in charge and explain everything and then DIDNT SHOW UP, as I told everyone he would not.

>>>>
Amiga Inc. denied everything about the story about a new CEO and that both Fleecy Moss and Bill McEwen would be "out of the picture" (as BBRV put it). The business card scan is something BBRV needs to explain, not Amiga Inc. Amiga Inc. cannot explain the business card even if they wanted to since Amiga Inc. has nothing to do with it.

Furthermore, even if Garry would have been passing out those business cards, it's still very unprofessional of BBRV to make these claims in public without verifying such information first. No matter how we look at it, BBRV was obviously and indisputably wrong and I find it very unlikely that BBRV would have been completely unaware of the truth.
>>>>>
Selective memory I see, first Fleecy said Gary who, then he said ohh Garry Hare, and then told us virtually the same story as Buck except telling us Bill is the CEO, Garry is just a consultant. I've put the question about the business card to Fleecy twice on AW.net and they hop all around that, not one person from Amiga Inc has said this simple phrase (because they would be lying), "Garry Hare did not hand out those Amiga Inc business cards", we've waited 11 months and asked for them but it has not happened, and it wont happen, especially given Garry Hare is listed as an expert witness for Amiga Inc. Bill Buck made "claims" as he was told by Garry Hare, a person sent to amiga by the VC and who was handing out CEO business cards for Amiga Inc. Someone a bunch of us know from the CD-I/CDTV days, and who was handing out the business cards in question.
-Tig
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 203 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 02-Mar-2004 21:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 200 (Johan Rönnblom):
>About proof: Of course every ANN reader already knows that you have
>your own highly variable definition of proof.

The definition I told you earlier was a cut'n paste from the Swedish online dictionary "Lexin - Svensk-engelskt lexikon" and I do believe there was nothing arbitrary about it.

>It's pretty well
>illustrated when you claim that a thread full of people who have seen
>an ad, while no one has any information showing that Thendic or Genesi
>would be involved in the placing of this ad, constitutes a proof of
>Thendic or Genesi having placed this ad.

Please don't lie about what I've said or not. Here is what I actually said:

"The discussion is a testimony of the ad's existence, ie proof."

That is NOT equal to claiming that it would constitute a proof of Thendic or Genesi having placed this ad. All I ever claimed that it would prove is the existence of the ad, which is enough to put the former Thendic-France (Genesi) "in a bad light". If they really wouldn't want to be associated with such business methods, they would have made that clear to the public as well as asked Google to remove them. As it is now, there is nothing what so ever indicating that they did not put that ad there nor that they were removed on their initiative, which is regardless if they are responsible or not, putting them "in a bad light".

>At the same time, the
>statements of several people who claim not only to have received a
>business card, but also that they kept the card and have it in their
>possession, does not prove that the card was in fact handed out.

Where are those "several" statements? All I've ever seen is your claim for "several" statements from "several" different indivuals. Once more you show that everyone but you have to prove their claims.

>About AInc's lack of denial: When did they deny that Garry Hare handed
>out these business cards, or that he claimed to be CEO?

Amiga Inc. can only speak on Amiga Inc.'s behalf, not Garry Hare's behalf. As far as Amiga Inc. knows, they have never replaced Bill McEwen as their CEO and everyone claiming differently are obviously wrong. I'm sorry but you're barking up the wrong tree.

>Since they didn't, and Garry Hare didn't deny this either, the matter is
>undisputed is we have several people claiming that he did, and no one
>claiming that he did not.

If it's true, it was obviously not something Amiga Inc. was aware of. All they could ever do is keep reassuring people that they have not changed their CEO, which is exactly what they did.

Again, it is much more interesting to know why BBRV felt this need to tell everyone about it while at the same time claiming that it would be "common knowledge". I mean, if it was "common knowledge", why would it have to be announced to the world to begin with? Also, if you would be the new CEO of a company, would you really proclaim it to the world by handing out business cards on a fair that is not even specific to your business? I would say that BBRV was quite aware of the fact that this was not something even Amiga Inc. was aware of, which reduces our options for possible intentions of spreading these "common knowledge" news across every Amiga website without confirming it with an alternative source of information first.

>About smearing: I'm not smearing Hyperion as what I'm saying is true.

Until you are able to prove it, that is.

>However, you don't have to believe me and I'm not in the business of
>trying to prove it at the moment.

Claiming that it is true is the same thing as claiming it to be a fact. By your own reasoning:

"Such an assumption includes the assumption that those "facts" exist, and
you have not proven that they would be facts at all. Until you have, you
should be a bit careful with naming them facts - you can say that XYZ is
your opinion, perhaps."

>About double standards: You are assuming that the lack of payment was
>intentional. This is a pretty stark assumption to make unless you have
>a very good reason for it.

Nope, I've never claimed that Amiga Inc. nor Genesi/Thendic-France would not be paying their employees on purpose. All I'm saying is that they are doing the same thing as they have "indirectly" accused and sued Amiga Inc. for doing. If they could have helped it or not is not the issue here. Ever heard of the expression "treat others as you want others to treat you"? This whole thing is putting Genesi "in a bad light" in the sense that they deserve to be sued for those unpaid salaries. They surely don't deserve the indulgence that you for example is showing them.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 204 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 02-Mar-2004 21:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 202 (Tigger):
>Selective memory I see, first Fleecy said Gary who, then he said ohh Garry
>Hare

Care to back up your story about Fleecy saying "Garry who?" with a reference, such as a link for example? I assure you that my memory is not "selective" because I've honestly no recollection of such statement from Fleecy.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 205 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 02-Mar-2004 22:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 192 (samface):
Right.
http://www.rainbowsystem.com/html/products6.html
Comparisons of similar products are LEGAL *and* widely used in the marketing
industry. As long as they are factual of course.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 206 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 02-Mar-2004 22:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 201 (Lost souls):
5) The exclusive master distributor contract (listed in 4); and all other IP assets should be under the control of the authority of the Bankruptcy court in France. It should be treated as an asset and sold to the highest bidder!
--

Sure! But the MorphOS and Pegasos IP isn't and wasn't ever owned by Thendic-France SARL. Plus, nobody told you that the Master Distributor Contract is
transferable. Before you comment on the non-transferable Amiga Inc contract,
it was with Thendic Electronics GmbH, a company that still exists.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 207 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Lost souls on 03-Mar-2004 05:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 206 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
5) The exclusive master distributor contract (listed in 4); and all other IP assets should be under the control of the authority of the Bankruptcy court in France. It should be treated as an asset and sold to the highest bidder!
--

Sure! But the MorphOS and Pegasos IP isn't and wasn't ever owned by Thendic-France SARL. Plus, nobody told you that the Master Distributor Contract is
transferable. Before you comment on the non-transferable Amiga Inc contract,
it was with Thendic Electronics GmbH, a company that still exists.

Thendic Electronics GmbH = Thendic GMBH = Thendic (owned by pretory)

see:
http://www.thendic.de/US/Links/links.htm
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 208 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 03-Mar-2004 15:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 205 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Comparisons, yes. But who was talking about comparisons? I was talking about associating one product with the trademark of another. Of course Genesi have every right to make comparisons with their product and other products, which is far from the same thing as associating your product with the trademark of another. Comparisons is actually the exact opposite since the message is about differentiating your product from the other products and their trademarks rather than trying to associate your product with your competitor's trademark.

If there is something you don't understand about what I'm trying to say here, please just ask.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 209 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 03-Mar-2004 19:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 208 (samface):
Sure, associating your product with another trademark is not legal but
associating it with the definition of the other product sure is.
AmigaOne is a PPC board running w,x and Genesi add an ad telling
people to check out their board, running y and z.
It's done all the time on google, by big companies.
Lot's of times I tried to search about something and found ads
of competiting products. It's not allowed to say that you Peg is
an AmigaOne but it is allowed to say that it's a PPC system just like
the Amiga One.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 210 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Luca Diana on 03-Mar-2004 23:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (Fabio Alemagna):
>Btw, hello Luca, long time no see

Sorry, wrong person, but keep being the idiotic troll you are
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 211 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Luca Diana on 03-Mar-2004 23:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (Fabio Alemagna):
Some of us happen to have a job they love, one day you'll grow up and if you manage to be less than a 24ish year old arrogant know-it-all maybe someone will even hire you (not me though).
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 212 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 04-Mar-2004 00:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 209 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Now you're spinning off into something completely different. Let's just agree that it's not legal to associate your product with trademarks you do not have the rights for, no need to analyse the subject further.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 213 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 05-Mar-2004 17:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 211 (Luca Diana):
> Some of us happen to have a job they love,

Ehum... Sure, so? I fail to see what you're aiming at :-)

> one day you'll grow up and if you
> manage to be less than a 24ish year old arrogant know-it-all maybe someone will
> even hire you (not me though).

Luca, apart from the fact that what you are saying has literally nothing to do with the topic at hand, you know zilch about my private life, and thus should refrain from making any kind of comment about it.

But of course, you're the good 'ol Luca Diana, I can't expext anything else.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 214 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 05-Mar-2004 17:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 213 (Fabio Alemagna):
Oh, btw, thank a certain "katherine tramell" for having made me notice your post. Who is she? No idea, I just got an email from a person with that - surely fake - name.
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