[News] Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! | ANN.lu |
Posted on 27-Mar-2004 18:34 GMT by samface (Edited on 2004-03-29 02:28:03 GMT by Teemu I. Yliselä) | 143 comments View flat View list |
From http://www.mindrelease.net/amiga-thendic/#65:
REPLY in Support of Motion filed by Plaintiffs Genesi Sarl, Thendic Electronics Components re 49 MOTION to Modify the Order Granting Specific Performance, (LT, ) (Entered: 03/25/2004)
Highlights:
Richard Hughes, Attorney for "Thendic", accuses Bill McEwen of perjury, refering to Bill McEwen's deposition taken on August 14, 2003, nearly four months following the sale Amiga's OS system to Itec wherein he testifies that Amiga's assets included its Intellectual Property Rights to AmigaOS.
Bill Buck testifies as a person with "'a unique knowledge base regarding Amiga'", refering to the days of when he was the CEO of a company that was partnered with ESCOM to develop and promote The Amiga Operating System through a hardware platform, claiming that "'applications such as a web-browser, an MP3 player, and a mail client are application programs that adhere to an operating system just as Microsoft Outlook Express is an e-mail application that works with Windows'". Furthermore, he concludes that "'If the Amiga DE Operating System did not include an operating system and was touted as beeing only an "application" as Amiga now contends, it could not have been promised or discussed integration of Java, MP3 and mail client as stated in the ("Agreement")'".
Bill Buck claims that he was the one who suggested that the Amiga Operating system and the AmigaDE should be seperate enteties as an explanation to his "'Amiga OS is an operating system, DE is something different that makes alot of things work in other than Amiga operating system environments'" statement.
Bill Bucks states: "'I believe the mail attributed to 'Fleecy Moss' was and still is from Fleecy Moss"'.
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 101 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Ray A. Akey on 29-Mar-2004 02:46 GMT | In reply to Comment 61 (hooligan/dcs): /me joins Hooligan and says "cheers" with a bottle of Corona. |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 102 of 143 | ANN.lu |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 103 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Ketzer on 29-Mar-2004 04:30 GMT | In reply to Comment 102 (EyeAm): And this is based on ... nothing? |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 104 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Gregs on 29-Mar-2004 06:09 GMT | In reply to Comment 100 (gary_c): I didn't realize you were a lawyer as well as an Amiga computing fan. The personal profile you posted at moobunny fails to mention this, out of modesty, I suppose. ;-) (Just kidding, but it's amazing to me how we get all these layman's analyses of the case, when really nobody knows squat.)
I am no lawyer Gary_c but I have not been spending my life in a closet either, and I tend to read a few books when I get the chance. Far from knowing squat we have about as much as the judge has to go on, even without the transcripts. Submissions are the critical part of any court case outside criminal law, it only requires a bit of application and a small amount of knowledge to make sensible comments.
Opinions that what Bill Mc said constitute perjury, are just that, opinions worth nothing at all. To be perjury requires more than just a sentence that can be interpreted a few different ways, or a question which is so broad that it too could mean a few things. It requires the conscious misleading of the court on issues before it, not some asides along the way.
This at least should be common knowledge, ever heard two people give evidence about an accident to which they were both witnesses? You could be forgiven most of the time in believing that two accidents occurred -- is one a liar and the other honest, it simply does not work out that way in reality. All the various points must be brought together, the issue itself rules out much that is irrelvant to the evidence. In short, perjury is a specific thing, not "lair liar pants on fire" accusation as it has been bandied about here and elsewhere.
Besides which the whole thing turns on rights to IP, one of the more complex areas of law and contracts. Intellectual Property is one of those rare things which can exist in different degrees, can be both in a specific place and in no-place in particular IP exists in rights to it and these can be many and varied, even a royality is a specific right to IP which is possessed.
Now there is an old saying about not attacking the man but the ball, consider it in this case, instead of having a go at my expertise (which is just that of an educated layman), how about instead making a comment on the issues raised. It is not hard to do, it just requires application and a desire to take things on directly in a forthright way.
Greg Schofield |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 105 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by hammer on 29-Mar-2004 06:52 GMT | In reply to Comment 96 (Anonymous): The issue in relation to EU’s decision is about the MS’s _right_ to improve the said product. IF the main argument is about access to customers then a share infrastructure would suffice (refer to Oz’s Telstra (i.e. competitive monopoly) sharing of infrastructure with competitors as a good example).
Removal of WMP has attracted US Gov’s intervention and highlights EU’s inexperience such issues. |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 106 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Amon_Re on 29-Mar-2004 07:10 GMT | *Eating chips* When's the next episode?
Cheers |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 107 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by hammer on 29-Mar-2004 07:30 GMT | In reply to Comment 105 (hammer): Addendum
The issue in relation to EU’s decision is about the MS’s _right_ to improve the said product. IF EU’s main argument is about access to customers then infrastructure sharing would suffice (refer to Oz’s Telstra (i.e. competitive telecom monopoly) sharing of infrastructure with competitors as a good example). Removal of WMP has attracted US Gov’s intervention and highlights EU’s inexperience in such issues. |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 108 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by EyeAm on 29-Mar-2004 10:38 GMT | In reply to Comment 103 (Ketzer): Based on the fact that Gary Hare and KMOS got involved with (or against) Genesi/MorphOS, and intend on protecting the intellectual property.
Unless there is a deal between AROS and KMOS. Is there? :)
How does Gary Hare / KMOS feel about AROS? Maybe someone (who cares more) should find out.
I just think it's going to happen--that AROS get stopped dead in its tracks. The soap opera almost requires another wrench be thrown in. It's like a scene out of, hmm....DIE HARD, Part 9: Murphy's Law--Faster Than Speed, where the train wrecks, then a jetliner falls on it, just as a nuclear bomb goes off in the distance. You KNOW it's coming.
--EyeAm
http://s87767106.onlinehome.us |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 109 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Mar-2004 16:46 GMT | In reply to Comment 105 (hammer): EU inexperienced?! god you haven't got a clue. |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 110 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Agima on 29-Mar-2004 17:14 GMT | >>'If the Amiga DE Operating System did not include an operating system and was touted as beeing only an "application"
It's niether an OS or an Application... it's a content engine. |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 111 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Agima on 29-Mar-2004 17:25 GMT | In reply to Comment 68 (KenH): >>Stop jumping up and dwon on your reputation ;) It's bad enough as it is. Leave it be. Instead of creating business and money, you will lose it.
I thought Bill Buck was moving on to different markets because the Amiga market is too small or something. So why is he trying bankrupt himself by wasting money with Amiga stuff still? |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 112 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Graham_nli on 29-Mar-2004 17:45 GMT | In reply to Comment 108 (EyeAm): There is nothing that can touch AROS with relation to KMOS.
No source from AmigaOS was used in its making. It is a fully reverse engineered clone of AmigaOS - the APIs for AmigaOS have been available since like forever.
Now if KMOS went after Genesi/Thendic/bPlan and could prove that AmigaOS source code was used in the creation of MorphOS (beyond normal reverse engineering practice), then there might be an issue with source code making its way from MorphOS into AROS as has been happening for a while. Of course this would all be trackable in CVS so anything that did infringe could be replaced easily enough - it would probably set AROS back a few months though.
As there is no evidence yet that KMOS plan to even go after MorphOS, I really really doubt that KMOS will do anything about AROS. They are different products in different target markets.
I think that all this repeated fear i've seen from recent posts is a bit dramatic, to be honest. |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 113 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by ex-red troll on 29-Mar-2004 18:24 GMT | In reply to Comment 112 (Graham_nli): Why, pray tell, would KMOS go after Genesi regarding MorphOS?
MorphOS did not use AmigaOS source code. If you think it did show your proof or shut up about it.
You bring this up to smear MorphOS again with your innuendo.
Do you feel so threatened by MorphOS that you must attempt any means to discredit it? |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 114 of 143 | ANN.lu |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 115 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by hammer on 29-Mar-2004 19:34 GMT | In reply to Comment 109 (Anonymous): The EU is a modern invention i.e. born after WW2. |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 116 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by hammer on 29-Mar-2004 19:38 GMT | In reply to Comment 109 (Anonymous): The minimum action that MS could do in comply with EU’s judgments is to remove the “wmplayer.exe”. "wmplayer.exe" is only about 27KB. |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 117 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Graham_nli on 29-Mar-2004 23:23 GMT | In reply to Comment 113 (ex-red troll): I never said that MorphOS included AmigaOS code.
Learn to read. |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 118 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Graham_nli on 29-Mar-2004 23:24 GMT | In reply to Comment 113 (ex-red troll): In fact I knew that some MorphOS user would misread my post deliberately. |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 119 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Nate Downes on 30-Mar-2004 01:41 GMT | In reply to Comment 118 (Graham_nli): You left it open to be interpreted in a negative light, so don't claim indignity that some BMF bit it. |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 120 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by ex-red troll on 30-Mar-2004 03:43 GMT | In reply to Comment 118 (Graham_nli): in your words...
<quote>
Now if KMOS went after Genesi/Thendic/bPlan and could prove that AmigaOS source code was used in the creation of MorphOS (beyond normal reverse engineering practice), then there might be an issue with source code making its way from MorphOS into AROS as has been happening for a while.
</quote>
This is what you wrote and anyone can read. It is clear that you are saying that MorphOS used AmigaOS source code, sorry but I don't think you are using this as an innocent example.
You could have worded this if KMOS ... and if AmigaOS source code...yet you chose not to.
I used to believe the same rhetoric as you then one day I woke up...
I believe in truth and sadly, there is a scant amount left. |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 121 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Mar-2004 05:47 GMT | In reply to Comment 120 (ex-red troll): >I believe in truth and sadly, there is a scant amount left.
If you really believe in truth, then you should know that there is only a
handfull of people who really knows the truth about this. The rest of them
(like you) choose to believe in whatever suits their agenda and then promoting
that as _the_ truth hoping to convince someone else.
Until the reall truth is out (and I never think it will be) all you can talk
about is opinions and your personal belief. |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 122 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by pixie on 30-Mar-2004 07:01 GMT | In reply to Comment 120 (ex-red troll): If you had a better understanding at english you would see that this:
Now if KMOS went after Genesi/Thendic/bPlan and could prove that AmigaOS source code was used in the creation of MorphOS (beyond normal reverse engineering practice), then there might be an issue with source code making its way from MorphOS into AROS as has been happening for a while.
would mean:
1) KMOS would have to went after Genesi
2) would have to prove the AOS source was been used
after step 1 being taken, and step 2 being proved then:
3) some issues would arise also for AROS, as they (MOS<->AROS) are sharing some code
In all you see, this in no way means that MOS used AmigaOS source code.
Please take the time to read it, and if you don't possess the knowledge to read it at least try to be humble when you do, although English is not many's native language, you should at least be able to understand it |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 123 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by ex-red troll on 30-Mar-2004 07:11 GMT | In reply to Comment 122 (pixie): you missed the point also...
and the innuendo continues
personal attacks/slights don't make my point any less valid, hopefully you will see the point this time. |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 124 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by pixie on 30-Mar-2004 07:28 GMT | In reply to Comment 123 (ex-red troll): Personal attacks!? English is not my native language, as for what you had quoted and implied, you were wrong, I explained it to you, now put up or shut up... |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 125 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by ex-red troll on 30-Mar-2004 07:39 GMT | In reply to Comment 124 (pixie): telling people to ...learn to read and to put up or shut up...
really the nerve of some people, anyone would think they had a high opinion of themselves or something of that nature.
thank you for illustrating my point several times. |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 126 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by pixie on 30-Mar-2004 07:45 GMT | In reply to Comment 125 (ex-red troll): well... if it's not like I had explained to you, be my guest and enlight me, if it is, be at least humble to admit you were wrong, not to me you know, to the one who you misunderstood and said it wasn't what he meant, when it is clearly so. |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 127 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by ex-red troll on 30-Mar-2004 08:08 GMT | In reply to Comment 126 (pixie): A comment was made and deliberately left hanging vaguely with an innuendo like a stain...and now you have the tenacity to think that an apology is in order.
Perhaps it would be better if certain persons left their agenda's behind when they came to ann.
This may be a tall order but I am sure we are up to the challenge...all of us. |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 128 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by pixie on 30-Mar-2004 08:16 GMT | In reply to Comment 127 (ex-red troll): innuendo!? and you talk in agendas? these allegations are long time due... now I was just saying that you understand wrong, from what's been said you couldn't had come wording like that...
but then you're right ain't you, it's just like you were saying, he said that MOS used AOS sources hadn't he? Take it or leave it |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 129 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Don Cox on 30-Mar-2004 08:24 GMT | In reply to Comment 113 (ex-red troll): "Why, pray tell, would KMOS go after Genesi regarding MorphOS?
MorphOS did not use AmigaOS source code. If you think it did show your proof or shut up about it."
KMOS might go after Genesi because they believed that AmigaOS source code had been used in the preparation of MorphOS. KMOS would then have to show proof in court.
A great deal of money could be wasted on such a case. |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 130 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Don Cox on 30-Mar-2004 08:27 GMT | In reply to Comment 121 (Anonymous): "If you really believe in truth, then you should know that there is only a
handfull of people who really know the truth about this. "
And they have probably all adjusted and filtered their memories to better match what should have happened. |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 131 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Graham_nli on 30-Mar-2004 13:23 GMT | In reply to Comment 119 (Nate Downes): I was bringing up the old rumour that MorphOS had been developed with access to AmigaOS code as the ONLY example that I could think of that could get at AROS.
I just thought that everyone here knew that this wasn't the case. Hence my point that AROS was perfectly safe! Sheesh.
I forgot that some people here are just too sensitive and can't think for themselves.
Fucking pissed off with people deliberately misreading posts around here. |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 132 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Graham_nli on 30-Mar-2004 13:24 GMT | In reply to Comment 120 (ex-red troll): Sheesh.
(deleted)
for fucks sake learn to read english.
IF IF IF IFI FIFIFIFIKIR ht
twat |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 133 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Graham_nli on 30-Mar-2004 13:26 GMT | In reply to Comment 122 (pixie): Thank you for reading my post as I meant it to be read, and for having better English comprehension skills than many people who claim it as their first language. |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 134 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Nate Downes on 30-Mar-2004 14:01 GMT | In reply to Comment 131 (Graham_nli): Now, I read it and understood what you ment. However, I also know that it could be re-interpreted in another manner.
Same as how all of the folk love willfully misinterpreting what Bill Buck says. |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 135 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by priest on 30-Mar-2004 14:23 GMT | In case no-one noticed it: Garry Hare interview contained some interesting information items also about this court case. (starting fron question 2.6) |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 136 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by JKD on 30-Mar-2004 15:59 GMT | In reply to Comment 90 (Interesting): Do you want to try to actually add some value to the discussion, or are personal insults and innuendo all you can manage?
Steve |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 137 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Gregg on 30-Mar-2004 17:40 GMT | In reply to Comment 133 (Graham_nli): You know, graham_nli, since by your own admission this misinterpretation seems to be happening to you all too frequently, you might, just might, consider that the factor is "me" rather than "all those other people".
This is intended merely as a helpful reminder that one should review one's communication in light of actual versus intended interpretation; however, you may choose to see this as a gratuitous personal attack. That interpretation would be unfortunate, and incorrect, but completely your fault, of course.
Regards,
Gregg |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 138 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Mar-2004 18:10 GMT | In reply to Comment 137 (Gregg): bravo! |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 139 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by pixie on 31-Mar-2004 09:59 GMT | In reply to Comment 137 (Gregg): Can you tell where's this 'misinterpretation' you're talking about? From his past I don't know, but this was astraight message as it could be given the subject.
Now imagine I said this three words:
MorphOS
Amiga OS
Source code
*whatever* the context I might apply them would get flames, if I wanted to pepper it up I just would have to add the stolen word... |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 140 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Graham_nli on 31-Mar-2004 12:52 GMT | In reply to Comment 137 (Gregg): It isn't so much a problem of writing badly, but how a select few people on here choose to interpret what I write.
I've written long posts discussing things, and then a whole page of "Blues" will attack me for 1/50th of the post, whilst ignoring the rest. Somehow the post is understandable to everyone else - because they took whatever that 1/50th was and they had also read the surrounding text so they could understand it in context.
I can only attribute it to wanting to deliberately misread what I wrote because the reader has a bias against me because I'm not a "blue".
I don't see why I should have to make disclaimers against every example given. The readers here should have the intelligence to understand what an example is. |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 141 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Gregg on 31-Mar-2004 13:46 GMT | In reply to Comment 140 (Graham_nli): I don't see why I should have to make disclaimers against every example given. The readers here should have the intelligence to understand what an example is.
Seems to me you have a few choices :
1) Modify how you communicate.
2) Modify how other people interpret.
3) Don't care how your communication is interpreted.
Here's my perspective on these choices :
1) Painful, but ultimately rewarding.
2) Next project : World peace and plenty.
3) Don't bother communicating.
What about you?
My guess : "Don't care about people who don't interpret what I say the way I want them to."
The problem with that is twofold : it's pretty pointless, and you evidently _do_ care.
Gregg |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 142 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Interesting on 31-Mar-2004 15:27 GMT | In reply to Comment 45 (Gru): >>>>Some people still don't get it. Bill Buck is obviously no dummy, McBill obviously is.
Bill Buck will likely get what he seeks, McBill will be press license plates in a cell next to Martha Stewart.<<<
Buck wants a cell next to Martha Stewart?
Would give him the time to write that book he talk's about.
On the other hand, maybe the french government will want him back, into their court system, sure the US goverment would be more than happy to help out. |
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Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 143 of 143 | ANN.lu |
Posted by pixie on 31-Mar-2004 17:17 GMT | In reply to Comment 141 (Gregg): Where's your problem with what has been said!? Wasn't it clear enough? |
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Anonymous, there are 143 items in your selection (but only 43 shown due to limitation) [1 - 50] [51 - 100] [101 - 143] |
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