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[Forum] MicroAmiga available in October.ANN.lu
Posted on 28-Aug-2004 19:07 GMT by drHirudo126 comments
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After some delay, the first Next generation Amiga at affordable
price will be available at the dealers in start of October. More info is Here The suggested end user price for these boards is as follows:

µ-A1-C - gbp349/euro499/USD599 (ex VAT/sales tax)
µ-A1-I - gbp399/euro599/USD699 (ex VAT/sales tax)
MicroAmiga available in October. : Comment 101 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 31-Aug-2004 09:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 100 (Olegil):
Amen to that! =)
MicroAmiga available in October. : Comment 102 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 31-Aug-2004 10:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 93 (hooligan/dcs):
You can still buy a pc far cheaper with much more (key) software... If A1 had a special pack bundled with Lightwave9 I guess some wouldn't mind buying it for example at: 2000€
MicroAmiga available in October. : Comment 103 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 31-Aug-2004 10:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 100 (Olegil):
At last someone that is rational... :-)
That comment applies both ways BTW! :-)
MicroAmiga available in October. : Comment 104 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 31-Aug-2004 18:51 GMT
hmm seems to be the discussion was first, about is $600 affordable.

answer: no

about poland and germany and england...I'll pass on that discussion.

Given the amount of time I've spent in the community, I guesss I'll plunk down the $600 should the time ever come...but right now, its more will be available someday and OS 4 will be ready someday...

I have no doubt it will happen someday, but wake me up then.
MicroAmiga available in October. : Comment 105 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by coldfire on 01-Sep-2004 01:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 96 (AdmV):
>Now, lets say I was as stupid as you, and I thought it was even half possible >to shunt the Soviets out of Eastern Europe. Lets say you did. Do you somehow >believe they would drop back to their borders and just accept it?

Let's just say if you were as stupid as me and the russians got shunted out of East Europe it would seem they wouldn't have much choice but to accept it.

>Further, if the US and the Allies could not move out of the European theatre, >just how will you allocate the forces needed in the Pacific against Japan?

Japan was down and out but stobbornly refused to quit. It took 2 bombs for them to finally stop fighting. I don't remember that they used any European theater troops to fight there. The Russian army was large but they had been getting a huge amount of support from the allies. It's one thing to take territory but another to hold it. I believe if the allies had attempted to oust Stalin from Poland the Poles would have become a serious problem for their occupiers. Russia had been through a rough time and finally overcome a seriously depleted German army that was getting no support due to the allies attacking from the other side. Now the long supply line problem that plagued Hitler's troops would have plagued Stalin's.

No one even tried. They just wanted it over and figured Poland was a small price to pay.

coldfire
MicroAmiga available in October. : Comment 106 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Fei on 01-Sep-2004 03:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 100 (Olegil):
I'd never go as far as telling other people to buy something or not. You're right that I'm looking for something to justify this purchase and cannot find it. You're right I probably don't need it then. But something is strange to me. People I know, who practise different hobbies, tend to convince others to join them, to make the hobby spread. When I was a newbie among RPG fans (not computer ones, of course), people told me how wonderful it is to play. They borrowed me books, invited to play together and all that stuff. So I "got infested". But A1 society here is different. If I ask them why I should join, they don't have any reasons. They even tell "we don't need you" if I give them some cons. It's a closed circle and that's strange (and interesting), from a psychological point of view ;). Pegasos people are different, well - normal I'd say. And it's not only my opinion.
MicroAmiga available in October. : Comment 107 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV on 01-Sep-2004 06:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 105 (coldfire):
and that just shows your idiocy and complete inability to understand.
MicroAmiga available in October. : Comment 108 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 01-Sep-2004 07:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 100 (Olegil):
Sensible words.

And a lot things have changed in last ten years.
MicroAmiga available in October. : Comment 109 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 01-Sep-2004 08:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 106 (Fei):
Who has told you you're not needed? Of course you're needed. But you sound more like you're looking for a reason NOT to buy than a reason TO buy. And looking for sane AmigaOne-fans on ANN is just futile. We're all a bunch of loonies here. Head over to AmigaWorld.net instead. But DO NOT go spouting off about how much better something else is than an AmigaOne, because that WOULD be seen as a trolling attempt (we've seen so many "innocent questions" from people who supposedly don't know anything about A1/Peg turn out to be posted by people with an agenda to throw dirt at us. No, we don't like that. Yes, it gets to us in the long run).

If you feel you know most of what there is to know about the available products and still can't make yourself buy one, then what would it take for us to convince you? Would it be worth spending a year debating with you just for one sale? How many people who do not know ANYTHING about the available products could I reach out to and convince if I did _NOT_ spend a year debating with you?

All these questions are part of the dirty game that is business. I would say, based on the little you wrote, that you are not worth the hassle of me trying to convince you. Because you seem like you aren't really interested. Same with Don Cox. I would NEVER try to sell him an AmigaOne, because I know he's not interested. He doesn't see it as an Amiga at all, because he has a very different opinion on what makes something an Amiga than I do. He defines "Amiga" as something like "thingie that can be genlocked, runs all my old applications and has a mouse port I can put my home-brew electronics on". The AmigaOne doesn't have an OCS/ECS/AGA chipset, so fails point 1 miserably, misses out on the "all" clause of point 2, and uses a PS/2 mouse instead of a bus mouse, so fails completely on point 3. Now, should we all turn the world upside down, putting in tens of man-years of hardware design just to please ONE guy? Where would anyone get the cash? Right. So unfortunately I cannot convince Don to buy an AmigaOne. What do I do? Move on. At some point there might be a solution, at which point I would go back to Don and say "Hey, Don. Look here. It can be done. Now come join us". Or Don might change his mind and see that he doesn't need those features on the AmigaOne, because he has them on his A4000 already. But until then it's not gonna happen. It's also a lot easier to convince someone that a new hobby should be tried out if it is a: something the person doesn't know a lot about already, and b: doesn't require shelling out hundreds of euros to start up. So the RPG analogy is, unfortunately, way off. Doesn't compare at all. If you have some friends with an AmigaOne who live close enough to visit, then it's starting to become relevant, though.

I'm just saying that we shouldn't be using the "but my hobby is cheaper than yours" argument, because NEITHER of these hobbies are the cheapest we could have. The point of a hobby isn't most bang for buck, it's about what you want to do and how much of that you can afford.

Unfortunately the price of the AmigaOne is steep, but that cannot be helped short of selling at a loss (it's important to get direct cost of product + some extra that goes towards covering indirect costs, otherwise Alan would very quickly go bankrupt and that would NOT help make the AmigaOne cheaper in the long run ;-) ). So it boils down to this:

Do you want to buy one?
If yes {
Can you afford one?
If yes, buy one.
If no, bide your time. It might become cheaper, or you might become richer.
} else {
Bugger off
}

Anything else is unproductive at the moment.
Whoa, lunch.
MicroAmiga available in October. : Comment 110 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 01-Sep-2004 11:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (Olegil):
"Or Don might change his mind and see that he doesn't need those features on the AmigaOne, because he has them on his A4000 already. "

It's more a case of "Don doesn't need an AmigaOne until his A4000 stops working." I might like one, but I don't _need_ one, and I have a long list of things I want to buy. Not buying any computer hardware this year, and probably not next year either.
MicroAmiga available in October. : Comment 111 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 01-Sep-2004 11:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 106 (Fei):
Knowing people on both sides of the fence i can say that what you say is only valid for a small minority, that minority exists on both sides tho
MicroAmiga available in October. : Comment 112 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Fei on 01-Sep-2004 13:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (Olegil):
"But DO NOT go spouting off about how much better something else is than an AmigaOne"

Sorry, it sounds to me like "you can watch the bears at the zoo but don't tease them as they're dangerous" ;).

"I know he's not interested. He doesn't see it as an Amiga at all, because he has a very different opinion on what makes something an Amiga than I do."

I don't see it as Amiga, either. But it's not a problem as I don't think Amiga is the only thing that can give you fun and satisfaction. There are two things that can convince me. One is "the user thing", so you get a computer and can do many things with it. Unfortunately, with A1 you can't because there's no software and no signs there will be any some day. So forget that part. The other one is "the hobby thing", which is really about fun from what you do. And that - at least for me - means other people who share your hobby and you can talk to them, meet them and mix your ideas. Unfortunately, there's no such thing, either. You see, there's at least one A1 here (out of 4 we know in the whole country) and at least one registered betatester. There are also some people who will eventually buy it, I think. So what's the problem, you'd probably ask. The problem is, some time ago we used to meet together as Amiga users. We used to talk, sometimes go to pub for a beer. Then I sold my Amiga and they got involved in the OS4+A1 thing. And things got worse. Our opinions differed so we disputed. I had views, they got angry because I was criticizing their Preciousss. And on, and on... A friend of mine was one of A1 fans, he was close to buying it. Then he went to see it and changed his mind. So he was told that he is not welcome at the monthly meetings. So I decided I'd not go, either. I don't mean the fault is only theirs but I simply don't understand how some discrepancy in views can differ people so strongly.

"So the RPG analogy is, unfortunately, way off. Doesn't compare at all."

I used what I knew. If I was a golf player, I'd speak about golfers' community ;). It does compare, although not in terms of money. But that's not important as I would consider buying an A1 or Pegasos if there were reasons I wrote above.

"If you have some friends with an AmigaOne who live close enough to visit,"

Well, I used to have... before they got A1s. Now I have not... Of course, I don't say every single A1 user is like those people I know. I hope not. But well, I'm talking about people here where I live and I don't plan to move abroad. So, no difference from my point of view.

"I'm just saying that we shouldn't be using the "but my hobby is cheaper than yours" argument, because NEITHER of these hobbies are the cheapest we could have."

Drinking yourself to death is cheaper. And you socialize, too ;).
Nah, just joking. So you're right, I'll stick to other things, hoping one day there'll be some computer-oriented activity to practice like the satisfaction old Classics gave me when I was young. Anyway, it was nice talking to you without fighting. Thanks for that.
MicroAmiga available in October. : Comment 113 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 01-Sep-2004 15:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 112 (Fei):
Cant imagine how it would feel to have bought an a1 last year, spent a lot of money on top only to be still running linux.

I actaully got the board but returned it and got an amd64, don`t regret that now!
MicroAmiga available in October. : Comment 114 of 126ANN.lu
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Pirate
MicroAmiga available in October. : Comment 115 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 02-Sep-2004 00:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 95 (takemehomegrandma):
Unless you have a time machine referring to the past is pretty pointless.
MicroAmiga available in October. : Comment 116 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 02-Sep-2004 00:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 97 (priest):
Refer to http://reviews.infoworld.com/infoworld/img/35FEamd-in.gif

Intel doesn't have any serious competition during 1993 to 1990, until Am386's arrival to the market.
MicroAmiga available in October. : Comment 117 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by coldfire on 02-Sep-2004 03:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 107 (AdmV):
yeah, yeah...the last refuge of the lame "you're an idiot" yada yada...no valid response so let's just get personal...fine. Call me whatever ya like lamer. It is the same thing as an admission that you don't have an argument. I love you too.

coldfire
MicroAmiga available in October. : Comment 118 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 02-Sep-2004 03:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (hammer):
Yeah, I remember when I first read about Intel CPUs being AMD compatible. The first thing that came to my mind was "Andy Grove must be pissed off in a serious way right about now" :)
MicroAmiga available in October. : Comment 119 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 02-Sep-2004 05:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (hammer):
I wonder the relevance... and the relevance of 386 in all this.

Amigas have almost always been more expensive when compared to what PC users were buying at that time. In y87 people bought 286 machines. In 92 the 386 was (still) hot (my friends 386 cost €2000 and equally equipped A3000 cost >€3000).

(Amiga had SW & performance advantage during those times, though. Nowdays the AOS4 SW efficiency is the only advantage from outsiders viewpoint.)
MicroAmiga available in October. : Comment 120 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 02-Sep-2004 11:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 119 (priest):
> Amigas have almost always been more expensive when compared to what PC users
> were buying at that time.
Note that Amigas was very competitive PCs at that time period (1985 to 1990). It's X86 equivalent would be expensive MCA architecture.

>In y87 people bought 286 machines.

Multi-sourced hardware vendors and biz software was the main reasons for their purchase e.g. World Prefect, IBM Display Write, Harvard Graphics, Lotus 123 and 'etc'.

> In 92 the 386 was (still) hot (my friends 386 cost €2000 and equally equipped
Note the year i.e. after 1991.
MicroAmiga available in October. : Comment 121 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 02-Sep-2004 11:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 118 (Anonymous):
Refer to Intel's President Paul Otellini...

Refer to http://www.eetimes.com/semi/news/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=PGVZL1YJGECBGQSNDBGCKHY?articleID=46200165

On heels of AMD's dual core MPU demonstrations (via HP boxes), Intel announced its own duel core demonstrations for the incoming IDF.
MicroAmiga available in October. : Comment 122 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 02-Sep-2004 11:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 119 (priest):
Note that 386 based PCs released earlier than 1992 time period.
MicroAmiga available in October. : Comment 123 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by John Block on 02-Sep-2004 11:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 120 (hammer):
Also a pc was + graphics board + sound chip etc which the amiga had.

Also software including titles like dpaint which ran on both was cheaper on the amiga.

The system also removed a lot of overheads so that graphics work could be done.

For instance, slinging a logo around a screen growing nearer and further away was trivial in dpaint.
MicroAmiga available in October. : Comment 124 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 02-Sep-2004 21:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 123 (John Block):
>Also a pc was + graphics board + sound chip etc which the amiga had.

Note that IBM PS/2 Model 55SX (illustrated as an example) has an integrated VGA graphics. Sound adapter was an add-on. To keep things into preceptive, the number IBM PS/2 386/486 unit shipped would out number the total Amiga sold.
MicroAmiga available in October. : Comment 125 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 02-Sep-2004 21:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 123 (John Block):
They were cheaper, but they don’t very little in relation to business’s MIS (Managed Information Systems) activities.
MicroAmiga available in October. : Comment 126 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 04-Sep-2004 08:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 125 (hammer):
[Edit] (with more sleep)
They were cheaper, but they do very little to the business’s MIS (Managed Information Systems) activities.
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