[Forum] "party on:-)" (R.S.) | ANN.lu |
Posted on 02-Oct-2001 19:56 GMT by Martin Heine | 233 comments View flat View list |
(Before someone again complains that I'm sharing my opinion "everywhere": I just decided to paste here what I wrote in comp.sys.amiga.misc because of Christian's call for articles.)
The article contains quick and dirty translations of comments made yesterday and today by Mr. Haage and Ralph Schmidt at amiga-news.de, since I thought non-german-speakers might be interested in this, too.
Newsgroup-article #1:
To try to compensate at least a little bit the advantages of those
Amigans who speak German (and therefore often get easier to rumours,
facts, etc., because of the importance of german companies and
individuals for the Amiga-market), I thought it might be useful to
translate a few statements made at amiga-news.de today.
While Eyetech and H&P accuse each other for the A1/AOS4-delays (one
says the hardware is missing, one says the OS4 is missing), Mr. Haage made (among others) the following comments (no warranty for the translation!):
[Mr. Haage (H) comments some rumours (R)]
H: "The interest in OS4.0 we have NEVER lost. But we've never been and are not convinced of the profitability of the project if the concepts won't be changed."
R: "They (H&P) are just the executing organ, all decisions are made by Amiga Inc."
H: "Correct. [...]"
R: "Amiga Inc. displays regarding Communication with their partners
"certain" deficits."
H: "Deficits is nicely said. But it's correct!"
R: "Failing to come / insufficient payments from Amiga Inc."
H: "Before payments could be made, contracts have to be made. That
far, however, we aren't yet. Regarding which I clearly want to
emphasize that WE do not delay."
[...]
H: "To be able to be partners to an agreement, one needs contracts -
and that is not Amiga Inc.'s strong point."
[Another comment from Mr. Haage]
R: "Is the date told by Alan Redhouse [Eyetech] for the completion of OS4.0 ("november, but probably not the 1st") possible in your
opinion?"
H: "Only if it would be right now possible to work towards that date. But the conditions for this don't exist. Maybe a wonder happens, but I don't expect it."
No wonder that those like me, who've been suspicious regarding AI in
favour of MorphOS/Pegasos for some time already, unfortunately feel
confirmed more and more. Also no wonder that Ralph Schmidt is enjoying this soap opera from AI, H&P and Eyetech, his first comment has been the one quoted as the subject: "party on:-)".
So, after translating Mr. Haage's point of view, I'll also think I
should quote from one of Ralph's comments, too. He (RS) answers to a
comment by Mr. Haage (JH):
JH: "In an exclusive x86 AmigaOS version we aren't interested."
RS: "No? :-) Do you think we don't get what you proposed internally
already in August? :-)"
[...]
RS: "As you've been also told already by a person from Amiga Inc. some monthes ago... you have no future as Amiga OS vendor."
My personal guess is that the main problem seems to be Amiga Inc.,
i.e. especially their lack of money. So after them already given up on their plans regarding DE being their future OS many monthes ago, it seems their plan to survive as a content vendor for PDAs seems to be not that successful, too (Alan Redhouse, too, does confirm in his statement that AI still has the already known financial problems). If companies like H&P do speak that way about AI already in the public as Mr. Haage did today at amiga-news.de (I just translated a little bit of it), I exprect the worst regarding AI's future.
Therefore it really seems the Amiga-market's future might be just
those two ones Ralph outlined: an emulation-based x86 one by H&P and
the PPC one covered by MorphOS.
-----8<--------
Newsgroup-article #2:
Some "second helping" - the "party" goes on:
(Again no warranty for the 'quick and dirty' translation.)
Michael Garlich (Titan Computer) in reply to Mr. Haage:
"You should restrain yourself on your statements against Mr. Schmidt!
Only you are to blame for the current situation - if you had actually shown your much propagated readiness for cooperation last year in september, it would not have been come that far. Despite all adverse things Mr. Schmidt contrary to you had been willing to cooperate under leadership of Amiga Inc. !!!"
And another reply by Ralph to Mr. Haage:
"[...] You operate on other levels which the normal user doesn't
notice. (dealers, influence on Amiga Inc., threats with licences,
internal mailing lists, influence on a certain person and a certain
company)"
-----8<--------
Newsgroup-article #3:
I think balance requires me to continue the translation at least one
more time, i.e. especially regarding the repeated offer below by Mr.
Haage to try to come to a cooperation. Of course everyone draws his
own conclusions, H&P-fans may say "didn't I tell you, just Ralph is
the bad guy" (although there's on the other hand the, today repeated, version by for example Mr. Garlich who said that Mr. Haage would have prevented exactly this last year), while the other side may say he's just lying or trying another trick. My personal conclusion is that Mr. Haage may just get cold feet because of the apparently very bad financial situation at AI and its consequences for another Amiga-PPC-future besides MorphOS.
Well, here again some quick and dirty translations from the very same thread of comments at amiga-news.de as before; again, no warranty.
1. Mr. Haage:
He suggests to accept an invitation made partly humorously by
amiga-news.de's Petra Struck to Mr. Haage and Ralph to meet at her
home for a dinner and try to come to an agreement.
(But Ralph did already say in a comment before he'd never again
cooperate with Mr. Haage, because of the well-known history and because H&P would just have nothing to offer that would be of interest for the bplan/Morphos-crew. (Although I think Ralph underestimates the value of "the name", but on the other hand I don't know how much, if any, influence H&P has regarding this.))
2. Ralph:
(It has been said before that by saying H&P (and Hyperion) would have nothing to offer the MorphOS-team could be interested in, they would cut out "StormC4, Arteffect, Genesis, Olsen's TCP/IP Stack, OS 3.9 licences" and Hyperion's products.)
" 1) We have with the PPC-MorphOS-GCC our own development system,
[...].
2) I wouldn't know what's that unique with ArtEffect. [...]
3) Genesis is a GUI surface and the TCP/IP stack belongs to Tomi
Ollila, which we do also have as a PPC version.
4) Olsen's TCP/IP stack is controlled by Olsen and nobody else.
And we do have a *very* good relationship with Olaf.
5) Amiga users do already own 3.1, 3.5 or 3.9 and it's left up to
them of they continue to use it until a completely new WB
exists.
6) MorphOS as AmigaOS 4.x was massively opposed by Hyperion since
november 2000 and in summer it was said that they'd never would
be porting Warp3d to MorphOS, when Amiga Inc. suggested them
this. This decision is left up to them for what they want to
develop something... The consequence is just that they don't
play any role in our plans. Therefore we plan an own 3D
solution. Warp3d is only that long important as new games
support it.
[...]
9) As I said already... H&P are free to offer their applications
for MorphOS also. *We* won't hinder anyone from developing
applications for MorphOS. SDKs from us always will be free.
10) With Papyrus we'll have a real office-package with
word-processor."
3. Mr. Haage:
Replying to the comment by Mr. Garlich (see earlier in this thread),
Mr. Haage says he wouldn't know about what Mr. Garlich would be
speaking.
4. Ralph:
(He was asked if Nova Design or Paul Nolan would have announced
support for MorphOS already.)
"We have also spoken with Kermit Woodal several times. Since he's also closely related with Merlancia, there are certainly possibilities. :-)
Paul Nolan does have a key and a development system since last year... [...]"
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"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 215 of 233 | ANN.lu |
Posted by the man in the shadows on 09-Oct-2001 01:07 GMT | In reply to Comment 210 (Smith Rouelle): You know Smithy, before I start, I actually had to break a sweat thinking about this one and wanted say thanks for the workout. Some posts lend well to a quick response while others take time soak in. As for Ralph, I have no qualms against him or MorphOS, I just have a different path I'm taking and it's geared towards OS4. I will definitely agree on some points, but I've got to add to a few others.
> For the past 5 years or so, ever since I first noticed H&P they have
> rose to be the leading Amiga software developer, and with their help
> on OS3.5 and 3.9 probably the most important. In all that time I have
> always known them to be truely professional and dignified at all times
> - I am sure nobody can disagree with me there.
There are many times H&P have been seen as unprofessional and even embarrassed themselves publicly. Anyone remember the 3.9 release with the Genesis fiasco? It is unfortunate that in order to succeed as a professional corporation, you must walk on the heads of others. I'm sure Ralph can fill you in on the history of H&P if you don't already know. Think about it, other than completely different directions of the PPC kernels, why else would Ralph not work with H&P?
> He is (IS!) developing an Amiga-like operating system for the PPC.
Something you may or may not understand, regardless of if OS4 is released, there will still be die-hard Amiga users who will refuse to use MorphOS even if MorphOS worked on the systems they already have. It sounds foolish, but it is logical. It's like a Ford owner who refuses to drive a Mitsubishi (while some Ford cars/trucks have Mitsubishi engines and parts). They aren't blind, just loyal to the Amiga name is all. They shouldn't be ridiculed for placing as much faith in a single company.
[I was going to remove this next part, but several statements I felt should be left in]
> On OS4:
> H&P say they aren't doing it.
Define "it". H&P already have components of OS4 in final beta stages with the help of Olaf. If you mean "it" by the whole of OS4 then you're right, H&P are not developing all of OS4. If you mean "it" by the statement of a native PPC OS, you're also right. You have to look at some of the information where it states OS4 will be the further development of a native AmigaOS for PPC, not a complete PPC port at first. Eventually OS4.2 is supposed to be free of 68K code or at least enough to where there is no need for an A1200 to run. OS4.5 is where the major changes start to happen with a new exec kernel.
> Amiga Inc hasn't changed from its original statement regarding OS4.
It's amazing really. All the complaints about Amiga when they make any changes or when they don't change at all. Makes me wonder sometimes. What if Amiga were to embrace MorphOS by the terms requested by the MorphOS dev team? Would people still complain?
> Who is doing it?
It's already been said who is working on OS4, there are components of OS4 being developed by third parties who asked to remain nameless until the product was released while others have made statements of what they will be including.
> Who has the expertise to port Exec to another processor?
Rhetorical or a serious question? If that's a serious question you should really head over to google and type in '"micro kernel" ppc' with the double quotes to see what kind of results you can find (200+ at least). There are more micro kernels than there are Operating Systems from the looks of it. MorphOS uses the Quark micro kernel rather than the exec. What would be the reason why Amiga couldn't use a similar tactic? There are also some experimental non-PPC exec kernels written with documentation. As for the public one, Amiga has stated it would not be supported with OS3.9 (worked fine on the systems I tested). I know of two other commercial PPC native kernels that were planned; one of them was named PowerOS (I think by Titan), the other by PowerComputing if I remember correctly. There are people in the Amiga community skilled enough to write an exec kernel replacement so it's not a question of who has the expertise, but who would be willing to take on such a position?
> How can OS4 materialise if H&P is not working on it?
That's just it; H&P doesn't have to work on it unless they are bound by contract (according to Jurgen, there is no contract). Even if no contract is ever made between H&P and Amiga I'm sure they would still be one of the distributors of the final product.
> The BAFs are not clear, perhaps their blindess extends to the realms
> of fairies developing operating systems?
That's a bit obvious isn't it? The "BAFs" aren't clear for many reasons, some of them chose not to be clear or have not completely educated themselves with other potential alternatives (see the second paragraph in this post). From what I've seen, there are very few people who have educated themselves over MorphOS, AmigaOS4, AmigaOS/XL, and AROS. I may not have the end all knowledge of all those developments but at least I know why I have chosen AmigaOS4 over the others. |
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