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[News] Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002ANN.lu
Posted on 25-Nov-2002 12:05 GMT by Jens Schönfeld (Edited on 2002-11-25 13:27:25 GMT by Christian Kemp)171 comments
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Thendic France will have 30 Pegasos computers on display at ARC 2002. All employees of Genesi will be present, and there will even be a small museum with rare computers! Update: Raquel Velasco and Bill Buck point out that there will only be 30 machines instead of the figure of 50 mentioned earlier, since that is all that is going to fit in their allocated space. Thendic France has increased their exhibition area, making themselves the biggest exhibitor of AMIGA + RETRO COMPUTING 2002. The reason for this extension is the amount of computers that they are presenting. Visitors of the show have the opportunity to persuade themselves of the combination of the new PPC board and MorphOS. The same amount of computers will be provided for the betatester-cxonference that will take place on the same weekend in room "Berlin 1" of the Dorint-Hotel "Quellenhof", which is located right next to the Eurogress. Thendic France has finalized the booking of this room during a meeting that took place in Aachen on november 21st.

The new company Genesi that unites Thendic France and bplan Germany will be present with all personnel at the show. More than 20 developers of hard- and software will answer your questions.

Read more about the technical data of Pegasos, that has been provided by Thendic France.

In addition to the new machines, Thendic will also bring part of their museum to Aachen. Rare machines like the Walker (Amiga successor that has never been produced) and 8-bit commodore machines will be on display at a separate booth. All the machines are still intact, so you can experience them in action!

Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 151 of 171ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 27-Nov-2002 00:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 148 (Johan Rönnblom):
I'm not calling YOU a criminal and the "almost" was deliberately inserted. I'm refering to the fact that MOS does crash and that you think it's the user's problem for running the wrong software (which you supplied on the demo machines) and for activating the wrong features (Which are parts of the software that you included). Then the MOS fans try and tell us that they use machines that are 100% stable and that they don't crash. Sorry - that's a load of dangly, hairy things. Any when someone behind the MOS project stands up and says that that MOS runs "perfectly", suggests that the public demos should be "managed" to hide crashes or that people who witness crashes should be labeled as "mistaken" or "liars" then THAT is CRIMINAL.
If the hat fit's then wear it.
Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 152 of 171ANN.lu
Posted by Teemu Suikki on 27-Nov-2002 01:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 151 (Darrin):
Darrin, you have misunderstood something.. No one has said that
presentations _should_ be done so that users can touch the software.
It was just pointed out that you could run hours of good looking
presentation without single crash, if a trained person runs only
software that has been carefully checked before. That would give false
impression, and that's why it's not done that way.
About "installing only software that is known to work". This sounds
easy, but think about it.. If done over clean MorphOS install, every
application would need to be installed one by one. It would take ages
to get even 20-30 applications properly installed, and then users
would think their favorite applications are left out just because they
don't work. :) Which probably wouldn't be the case.
So, generally people just copy stuff over from their Amiga hard
drives, from a "stable" system. But anyone ever checked the stuff,
dated from early '90s or even '80s, lying around the HD in some weird
directories? :) And even in the "known" apps you probably only use a
selected set of features, others might not work at all and you
wouldn't notice.
When my girlfriend first started using my A4000 (running amigaos at
the time), the system was crashing constantly for her. I was amazed,
I thought she must be doing something wrong. :) But it was just that
she kept launching the "wrong" apps, and doing things "differently"..
Like, I knew that DPaint didn't work on that system, but she kept on
clicking that because she wanted to draw something. :)
Anyway.. The point is this: If you have a "stable" Amiga system that
you are using, and you move that hard drive to a Pegasos, it's almost
certain that it is equally stable there. That's what most of
Pegasos betatesters have done, and that's why they say their system is
stable.
But, if you take your system (Amiga or Pegasos) to some big fair and
let dozens of people fiddle with it, I'm sure some of them finds the
application or other trick that takes the system down.. And if he
happens to have an agenda, he does it again and again just to prove
his point.
--
Teemu
Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 153 of 171ANN.lu
Posted by Teemu Suikki on 27-Nov-2002 01:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 152 (Teemu Suikki):
Ahem,
_should__shouldn't_ on the second line.. :)
Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 154 of 171ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 27-Nov-2002 02:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (Daniel Miller):
>You're just MorphOS hater #1 as far as I can see!
Cool! We've got a winner! Who's got the silver and bronze medal? ;-)
Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 155 of 171ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 27-Nov-2002 02:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 106 (turinturumbar):
>Jose, Thendic-France and bplan had publicly stated that MOS, will run in
>many different hardware solutions. It has being successfully tested in
>the Teron CX motherboard (A1), all the PowerUP cards, Pegasos and they
>intend to do a Mac Version.
Sorry, to maintain a bit of objectivity and eliminate double standards: MOS supporters continuously say that AmigaOS4 is just vaporware because it doesn't run on an AmigaOne and these phantomatics versione of MOS that you cite are supposed to be taken as tangible?
Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 156 of 171ANN.lu
Posted by Casey R Williams on 27-Nov-2002 02:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 113 (MonkeyOS):
>you did it again! Stop implying that MOS is the NG Amiga! This is only turning >Amigans off of it completely! If people like you let MOS/Thendic/Gensi >whatever stand on it's own 2 feet as it's own product, maybe some interest >will come about! But with this leech suck off real Amigans get pissed.
I'll get pissed you say? Or am I not a real Amigan if I don't? I've got a 1K, a 2K, and a 4K PPC, and if that don't make me real, then what would? This all reminds me of the way so many Amiga users seem to assume that everyone had an 8-bit Commodore at some point. I never did, I had the real Amiga predecessor, an Atari 8-bit, with custom chips designed by Jay Miner hisself. I always thought the Amiga reflected the spirit of its creators and their passion and creativity. I think of Dave Haynie as an Amigan and if he wanted to call a Met@box computer an Amiga successor, I'd have humoured him. Fact is that both AOS4 and MOS contain code and concepts provided not by the mighty legends of Amiga lore, but by Amiga users who simply want a modern computer with comparable elegance to what Amiga designed nearly 19 years ago. How people can get so attached to a name is beyond me. If Dave, Dale or RJ were to come on here and proclaim one of these platforms a "real" or "false" Amiga successor, it would be more sensible to listen to that than to base such an apparently important distinction on who currently holds the legal rights to a name that's been bought and sold so many times. Let 'em both stand on their own two feet!!!
Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 157 of 171ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Nov-2002 10:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 156 (Casey R Williams):
The point is not really the name, the point is, that one of the two OS's in competition _is_ the AmigaOS and not only by name but by code base.
The other one implements a virtual machine (= emulator) which is not even the main aspect of it .. no, thats supposed to be Q .. its just there to lure some much needed developers.
Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 158 of 171ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 27-Nov-2002 13:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 150 (Darrin):
> The point against your comment is that if Thendic want us to belive that MOS is perfectly stable (like some people have told us) then for god's sake only install stable programs from users to play with. If you install programs that can (easily) crash then don't blame anyone other than yourselves when someone reports it and don't call them liars or make lame excuses.
Quark is stable but ABox isnt and never will. Any memory trashing program can crash ABox instantly. There is no way making ABox 100% rock stable. Ever.
It is annoying if MorphOS (ABox) crashes without visible reason but you never know if previous programs trashed something or so. Well, i dont know what Thendic have said about MorphOS stability but on my A1200 MOS isnt worse than 68k AOS.
Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 159 of 171ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 27-Nov-2002 15:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 158 (itix):
"Quark is stable but ABox isnt and never will. Any memory trashing program can crash ABox instantly.
There is no way making ABox 100% rock stable. Ever."
No, but it ought to be at least as stable as an A4000 running OS 3.9.
Which is pretty stable if you keep away from the web browsers.
Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 160 of 171ANN.lu
Posted by turinturumbar on 27-Nov-2002 18:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 155 (amigammc):
>Sorry, to maintain a bit of objectivity and eliminate double standards: MOS supporters continuously say that AmigaOS4 is just vaporware because it doesn't run on an AmigaOne and these phantomatics versione of MOS that you cite are supposed to be taken as tangible?
I think that you were trying to say "AmigaOS4 is just vaporware because it doesn't run on an Pegasos".
If it is like that let me clarify that in that particular post I did not mention anything about AmigaOS4.0, so IMHO your acusation about double standards it's not true. I was just simply stating what other people said that they did or are planning. Would you let me call you non objective because you post in ANN things that another people said that were doing or planning?
Regards.
Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 161 of 171ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 27-Nov-2002 22:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 160 (turinturumbar):
No, you got that wrong and also I wasn't accusing you, I was speaking in very general terms. Check all the threads and see for yourself how many times MOS supporters say "AmigaOS4 is just vaporware" - that's why I'm saying that under that perspective also the versions of MOS you talked about are vaporware. Just nitpicking... It's apparent that people have lost any kind of objectivity and things that are good on one side are not on the other.
Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 162 of 171ANN.lu
Posted by mahen on 29-Nov-2002 08:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 157 (Anonymous):
That was evoked a thousand times.
MorphOS is _not_ an emulator. Each part of the AmigaOS was rewritten
cleanly (which is actually what the OS4 team wants to do in the long
term). All this makes the A/BOX.
Then, developing the Q/BOX is an evolution path, just like AmigaOS 4
is supposed to be turned into something else with OS 5. (but for the
moment, Hyperion doesn't want to think about it, it's not their main
goal of course, just like the A/BOX is MOS team's first goal).
Also the Q/BOX is supposed to be amiga-ish, but without the
limitations of the current amigaOS. While the AmigaDE has nothing
to do, except the name, with the AmigaDE, in my opinion.
Saying that the MorphOS team wants to drain Amiga developers for the
Q/BOX is really irrelevant. They of course just want Amigans to join
them in the adventure of rebuilding a new amigaOS (amiga-ish OS
if you prefer, as amiga-ish as the original).
However when AmigaInc tries to drain Amiga developers for their
AmigaDE.... It's really a loss for the community.
Anyway, people should just keep cool and wait&see for sth to be
released. It's really useless to wage war. After all, we all want
the same thing.
(except some developers who do that out of egoistic personal
satisfaction, or some company who just want to drain some $$$ out of
it with no real concern about the amiga... but that's another
story)....
So... Peace :) Everyone can cooperate.
Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 163 of 171ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Nov-2002 09:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 162 (mahen):
> Each part of the AmigaOS was rewritten
cleanly (which is actually what the OS4 team wants to do in the long
term). All this makes the A/BOX.
It emulates an Amiga environment without having AmigaOS - the abox _is_ an emulator.
Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 164 of 171ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Nov-2002 09:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 162 (mahen):
> Saying that the MorphOS team wants to drain Amiga developers for the
Q/BOX is really irrelevant. They of course just want Amigans to join
them in the adventure of rebuilding a new amigaOS (amiga-ish OS
if you prefer, as amiga-ish as the original).
Why is that irrelevant? As long as there is an AmigaOS this is "luring Amiga developers to some new OS".
Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 165 of 171ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Nov-2002 09:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 163 (Anonymous):
I also refer you to the morphos.net website which describes the abox as "OS emulation box".
Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 166 of 171ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 29-Nov-2002 11:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 163 (Anonymous):
Ehm, it is NOT an emulator. It's a PPC native AmigaOS reimplementation.
It includes a 68k emulator to run old software. It can work without the
emulator if you want it. It does NOT emulate anything else.
Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 167 of 171ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 29-Nov-2002 11:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 165 (Anonymous):
It started as an emulator to run AmigaOS. It's not an emulator now, as it
emulates NO part of the OS.
Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 168 of 171ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Nov-2002 14:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 167 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
It runs programs that were not written for this platform. This is what an emulator does isnt it? Also the abox was countless times referred to as emulation box and/or virtual machine, e.g. an emulator. Claiming that its not an emulator now is nothing but marketing (and before doing this you should clear up your websites and the public tech doc).
Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 169 of 171ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 29-Nov-2002 15:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 162 (mahen):
"Also the Q/BOX is supposed to be amiga-ish, but without the
limitations of the current amigaOS. While the AmigaDE has nothing
to do, except the name, with the AmigaDE, in my opinion."
Have you tried AACE or intent?
It's damn fast and smooth. With proper elements added one coule make it feel very much like Amiga (not exactly like it), I'm sure about it.
Have you tried Q/Box? Oh sorry, I forgot you can't. 8D
Is Q/Box going to be the ultimate future environment for MOS applications?
btw. as far as I've understood it, AOS5 can not be built on top of current intent and there will always be some native apps beside intent (things like memory protection won't work in intent) ... but all we can do about AOS5 is to speculate... it's not worth it now.
"However when AmigaInc tries to drain Amiga developers for their
AmigaDE.... It's really a loss for the community. "
They have definitely done that in the past. Perhaps they will do it again, but now they are adverticing for AmigaOS... anyway (IMO) at the same day when/if AmigaDE enters AmigaOS4.2, your point is irrelevant.
Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 170 of 171ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 29-Nov-2002 15:53 GMT
technical data provided by thendick:
"Processor options of 600 Mhz G3 PowerPC®/256k Cache up to dual MPC 7450 G4 PowerPC®/2MB Cache in recent clockrates"
...great as long as no one is lured to think that dual G4 is an option of today...
"AGP Slot x 2 any graphics adapter can be chosen by the user"
...only if those are the few supported ones...
I think that's not completely fair communication.
(and I'm sure one can locate same kind of misinformation about A1 as well...)
Thendic France is biggest exhibitor of ARC2002 : Comment 171 of 171ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 30-Nov-2002 08:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 168 (Anonymous):
That's bullshit because: PPC MorphOS apps also run in the A/Box right now.
They use the A/Box (extended AmigaOS) API. So no, it's not an emulator, it's
not designed to just run old software that would not run otherwise, it's
designed as full AmigaOS replacement.
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