| [News] Teron board delays | ANN.lu |
| Posted on 21-Dec-2002 13:04 GMT by LART | 312 comments
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Alan Redhouse has posted message in the "AmigaOne" Yahoo group.
It's mainly a list of excuses for the delayed shipment of Teron boards.
* E-mail has been left unanswered allegedly due to Eyetech being "mailbombed by viruses" and a DoS script run against their web server.
* For some strange reason Motorola was to deliver CPUs to Eyetech, but they haven't done so.
* Eyetech will, like any other distributor, have to wait for the Teron PX to be finished, including the bugfixed Articia (which still has no bugs, there's only the old VIA DMA bugs according to Eyetech's message).
* The previously announced shipping date for the Teron PX came from an employee who hadn't been brought up to date.
* "All but a few" Teron CX boards and systems have been shipped now.
* Those who won't get their Teron CXes will get a special offer for Teron PXes with PPC750FX (G3) CPUs.
* The "Earlybird" preordering offer for the Teron PX with a "free" copy of AmigaOS will be extended to the end of January.
* Teron CXes with the (non-existing...) Articia bugs can be exchanged for Teron PXes "at current list price less the original A1G3-SE
percentage discount with full credit being given for the original amount
paid", whatever that could be, plus shipping.
* The web site will be updated with shipping status information on Monday.
* In order to not miss Christmas sales, Eyetech shipped the Teron CX boards without any OS. CDs with SuSE GNU/Linux will be shipped on Monday (not the full retail version). It's the vanilla SuSE 7.3 PPC, without specific Teron support.
* It is "proven by MAI [sic] after extensive testing" that the VIA DMA bugs are unrelated to the Articia northbridge. Well, duh. :-D Eyetech still believes that the bugfixes for the Articia has something to do with previously known issues with the VIA southbridge. Alan also lets us know that the different southbridge of e.g. the Pegasos is "of that family"...
* For Eyetech's own sales, a specific Kingston SDRAM DIMM will be "standardised on".
* To provide the legally regulated minimum warranty period of the EU (24 months), the price of the Terons will be "adjusted to reflect the higher cost" of that for EU customers. It is not mentioned if non-Kingston-sold-by-Eyetech SDRAM will be among the "non-recommended" hardware that will invalidate this warranty.
It is asked that further comments/questions about Alan's message should be sent to info@eyetech.co.uk for inclusion in the web site update on Monday.
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| Teron board delays : Comment 201 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Troels E on 23-Dec-2002 00:43 GMT | In reply to Comment 198 (LART):
"The answer is "no", according to any information that's publicly available. You have no better information, and I suggest you stop accusing people of "lying" until you can show information that says otherwise. "Lying" is intentionally spreading information that's known to be untrue. When you have grasped the concepts of "lying" versus "saying what is known" I expect an apology."
You originally answered to if _OS4_ (not OS4.0) would support MP. Your answer was wrong.
According to Hans Joerg OS4.x will support MP and I tend to believe him over you after your initial biased news report.
I you didn't know, you shouldn't have answered at all.
When you choose to answer anyway you risk spreading mis-information. I will take back the word "lying" if you didn't actually do it on purpose, but it just seemed like you did. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 202 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by LART on 23-Dec-2002 00:45 GMT | In reply to Comment 186 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
> AmigaONE SE = Teron CX + PPCBoot + dongle
> AmigaONE XE = Teron PX + PPCBoot + dongle
Actually, its just Teron CX/PX + dongle code.
All Terons use PPCBoot/U-boot, regardless of distributor.
And as you say, the dongle code has nothing to do with the hardware or the design and production of that. The hardware is identical.
This is of course a good thing. Things would suck even more if hardware usable with AmigaOS would have to be "different" in more ways than the licensing requirement. Too bad that this good thing is not possible to take advantage of with the license f-ckup. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 203 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by V on 23-Dec-2002 00:47 GMT | In reply to Comment 164 (LART):
@ LART
> The Articia replacement info comes from Alan's message, combined with that
> Terra Soft will not be selling the currently available Teron CX boards but
> will wait until the fixed ones are available some time in January, and that
> the "April" fix was an interim fix while waiting for a fixed Articia S core.
>
> Alan: "We made a
> decision last week that it would not be possible to produce the XE's in
> time for Christmas delivery and so have postponed production until mid
> January. This is to allow us to use the new mask revision of the Articia
> chip, currently being released."
>
> Ignoring for a moment that this quote makes it sound as if Eyetech would have
> any say on design or manufacturing of the boards they're selling, he says
They has. The original TeronCX board were modified for their order (developer board -> consumer version), and also, a 3rd party company (not MAI) manufactures the boards partly for their order. Or do you think it's the manufacturer that tells the distributor what and how much they have to sell?
> that it's to allow for board manufacturing with the new Articia S revision,
> which is only a bugfix revision since it's still the same Articia S with no
> new features.
>
> The continued use of the VIA 686B sb on both the CX and PX comes from e-mails
> from Mai, and their CX and PX designs and features are the same as before.
>
> If the April "sandwich" board fix would have been only for the VIA DMA bugs
> it would naturally have been placed on the VIA southbridge. (Not only because
> of the obvious technical reasons, but it would also have been cheaper and
> easier due to it's older, smaller and less complicated BGA layout, and the
> VIA 686 chips are much more well documented than something like the Articia.
No, the VIA chips are not well-documented (in fact, VIA is not an open company, they tell the details only to their close partners), while Eyetech can get informations on Articia from MAI directly.
> Alan makes it sound like the April fix and the following Pegasos trade-ins
> were solely made out of spite or just for fun or something,
Heh? You just said (look above, if you forgot already) Alan said it's an interim fix, certainly not something made out of fun only. It's just they wouldn't add a name for a little fixup.
> just like Mai's
> new Articia revision obviously would be by his logic...)
No. Alan said that the bugs were be fixed both in software (VIA-related DMA bugs) and hardware (Articia-related ones) already (the same way as April). Obviously the new Articia revision will make the latter unneeded on the A1-XEs. (And maybe also will help in the former.) |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 204 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 23-Dec-2002 01:07 GMT | "Then you ar obviously dealing with crap companies who do not have a clue about running a computer system. Period."
I'm dealing with everyday businesses. And yes they are mostly clueless.
"It is perfectly possible to ensure that ALL users' PCs are running the uptodate release of the virus checker of choice, and to ensure it is never turned off."
Maybe in your perfect world, but in most companies, you would have to hire someone to attend over each individual all day to insure that these things ALWAYS occur. You build yourself up as some sort of "high God" because your company is "perfect". Give me a break. Most companies have average Joe employees that know just enough to run the application they are using and that's it. Maybe you work for a big corporation (I use to do that too) and that's ok, but not everybody runs that way.... You should get out more. There is a very real business world that differs greatly from what you are use to in your sheltered shatterproof walls. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 205 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by LART on 23-Dec-2002 01:13 GMT | In reply to Comment 182 (Fabio Alemagna):
> It would mean that there's a company which deliberately lied to its customers.
That's hardly news.
"All is going well with the A1-1200 project", while both that and OS4 had been suspended.
"The A1-G3SE is not a Teron CX" - Yes it is.
"The Teron CX costs $4000" - No, it's always been $500 for end users, unless you're a hardware developer who needs a dev kit and support for Articia development.
"People who want to buy AmigaOS and choose their hardware vendors are pirates"
"The A1-G3SE is our design, Mai just recommended us a manufacturer"
"Bugs in the Articia? BULLSHIT! Our boards are bug free. Oh, the VIA bugs? Well, 'we' fixed those. And bplan's/Mai's 'April' bug fix for the Articia is really for the VIA DMA bugs, and the VIA686es are 'the same family' as the VIA8231."
Add to these examples all the announced and broken release dates, announced even though Eyetech has no control over development and manufacturing of what they're selling. Not lies, but they shouldn't have made promises about things that are beyond their control.
One would expect that the licensed "AmigaOne" trademark would at least mean what it's officially said to mean. A FINISHED and fully functional product, tested and guaranteed to work, fully tested with AmigaOS, and AT LEAST the legally required minimum warranty period included at no extra cost! These are things you get from ANY vendor for ANY electronics product, licensed trademarks or not. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 206 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by V on 23-Dec-2002 01:30 GMT | In reply to Comment 205 (LART):
> "The A1-G3SE is not a Teron CX" - Yes it is.
No, it isn't. There was the original Teron CX developer board. Then Mai issued some modifications, and released the new, modified design as "Teron CX - consumer version". And that's A1-G3SE.
> "The Teron CX costs $4000" - No, it's always been $500 for end users,
> unless you're a hardware developer who needs a dev kit and support for
> Articia development.
Do you certainly say that a chipset maker company will sell you a board they made in quantities like 100pcs all, to allow you to evaluate their chipset, for the price of a board made and sold in quantities of 100,000 at least? No, they will give it to you for $4000. $500 if you order say 1000! Try to be a little bit more reasonable...
And please don't use quotes when you just put your own... words into others' mouth! |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 207 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by LART on 23-Dec-2002 01:55 GMT | In reply to Comment 203 (V):
> They has. The original TeronCX board were modified for their order (developer
> board -> consumer version)
No, it wasn't. The PCB layout is the same. The evaluation revision (the one that originally was licensed as an "AmigaOne"... LOL.) was sold with the solder pads for e.g. ethernet connectors empty, but the board design has always included on board ethernet. The VIA686A and B are of course pin compatible (or "ball compatible" ;-) ), and I imagine it's difficult to get hold of the 686A in 2002/2003. The consumer revision is not something new, and it's never been custom made for Eyetech or any other distributor.
> a 3rd party company (not MAI) manufactures the boards partly for their order.
Well DUH. Here I was thinking that Mai is sitting with soldering irons doing their boards themselves. Thanks for the information! ;-)
> No, the VIA chips are not well-documented (in fact, VIA is not an open
> company, they tell the details only to their close partners),
What a load of crap. If you buy a VIA chip for your production, like Mai or bplan, you get documentation. Otherwise the chips could not be used in hardawre design. These old chips have been out for years and years, and are *extensively* documented both by VIA and a bazillion of third party developers.
> while Eyetech can get informations on Articia from MAI directly.
What the heck would a distributor like Eyetech do with such documentation?
> Heh? You just said (look above, if you forgot already) Alan said it's an
> interim fix, certainly not something made out of fun only.
No, I didn't say that. Alan said that the "April" fix is for the VIA's DMA bugs, and first he said that the Teron fixes for this would be in software, then he said that the fixes would be in an on-board "GAL" as he put it. He has never acknowledged the ARTICIA BUGS, only the VIA bugs, and thus the "April" logically must be something unnecessary according to him since it's supposed to fix inexistent bugs.
> No. Alan said that the bugs were be fixed both in software (VIA-related DMA
> bugs) and hardware (Articia-related ones) already (the same way as April).
You're mistaken. He has never acknowledged any bugs apart from the DMA issues of the VIA southbridges. Articia bugs and the "April" fixes for those were "bullshit". |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 208 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by LART on 23-Dec-2002 02:13 GMT | In reply to Comment 206 (V):
> > "The A1-G3SE is not a Teron CX" - Yes it is.
> No, it isn't. There was the original Teron CX developer board. Then Mai issued
> some modifications, and released the new, modified design as "Teron CX -
> consumer version". And that's A1-G3SE.
What are you talking about? Both revisions are Teron CXes, both revisions have been sold as A1-G3SEs.
A1-G3SE, regardless of revision = Teron CX, regardless of revision.
Same thing with the Teron PX and A1-XE.
> $500 if you order say 1000! Try to be a little bit more reasonable...
Tell Mai to be reasonable instead. When asked in February, Vasudha Badri at Mai said that the price for ONE SINGLE Teron CX board was $500 (or $300 without a CPU). $3900 was and is the price for one developer's kit including dev support and documentation (similar to the recently announced Transmeta microATX developer's kit for $995).
> And please don't use quotes when you just put your own... words into others'
> mouth!
I though it was obvious that I was paraphrasing? Sorry if that was unclear. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 209 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 23-Dec-2002 02:25 GMT | In reply to Comment 8 (David Scheibler):
> I wonder if those Linux issues (Radeon7000 only in 1024*768*8bit, only UDMA66
>but not 100) also happen on the boards Terrasoft sells because there are no
>such issues using the Pegasos board.
These are issused with Linux, not with the AmigaOne. As far as I know Pegasos has the same problem. Anyone here running Linuc on pegasos want to clarify? What gfx cards are supported on the Pegasos? |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 210 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 23-Dec-2002 02:35 GMT | In reply to Comment 127 (Christian Kemp):
> You know, it's comments like this that make me question whether I should continue running ANN.lu at all.
Yeah, yeah, spit your dummy. Maybe you should close the site. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 211 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by V on 23-Dec-2002 02:55 GMT | In reply to Comment 208 (LART):
> A1-G3SE, regardless of revision = Teron CX, regardless of revision.
No! A1-G3SE Betatester board = Teron CX Developer board (+ some custom SW), A1-G3SE = Teron CX consumer version (+ some custom SW). What if the PCB is the same (if it's true what you say)? There can be modified glue-logic, etc.
> Tell Mai to be reasonable instead. When asked in February, Vasudha Badri at
> Mai said that the price for ONE SINGLE Teron CX board was $500 (or $300
> without a CPU). $3900 was and is the price for one developer's kit including
> dev support and documentation (similar to the recently announced Transmeta
> microATX developer's kit for $995).
I think it's either just a rumour, or a misunderstanding. (I read that comment here or ther, that someone asked MAI, but I don'r remember if the poster wrote exacly that it was one single piece ordered alone was $500. And who knows if it was true?)
> > And please don't use quotes when you just put your own... words into others'
> > mouth!
>
> I though it was obvious that I was paraphrasing? Sorry if that was unclear.
Bad excuse. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 212 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by squashgut on 23-Dec-2002 03:14 GMT | In reply to Comment 199 (LART):
Actually I do. But it seemed your attitude was in favor of going ahead and rushing OS 4 out anyway before "they" decided to.
Maybe there is some issues going on that you aren't aware of! Just maybe... they are putting the OS through further quality control tests so we don't end up with something imperfect.
Or just maybe they want to thicken the release up a bit with some extra's so that people will get their money's worth.
But people who just want a pacifier to suck on you like you LART, don't care to have quality.
LART: do you e-mail them everyday telling them to put a rush on it? Is the delay of OS4 causing you some anxiety? Maybe that's the source of your constipation?
Solution for LARD: Try being a little more patient with Amiga OS development. I'm sure they know what they are doing and don't want to release an inferior product. As for your know it all attitude, I don't see you working on an OS. And if you do.. I don't think I'd buy it as it might be a little *rushed* for my tastes.
Not to mention probably lacking in apps and other things. I doubt very seriously you know what the hell is going for sure in the development so don't claim or hint that you have some secret insider information to us.
On the other problem which you obviously have, try phoning a doctor up to deal with the constipation. Or visit your local pharmacy. There might be some herbal tablets you can consume that will help aid you in your pain. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 213 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by V on 23-Dec-2002 03:21 GMT | In reply to Comment 207 (LART):
> No, it wasn't. The PCB layout is the same. The evaluation revision (the one
> that originally was licensed as an "AmigaOne"... LOL.) was sold with the
> solder pads for e.g. ethernet connectors empty, but the board design has
> always included on board ethernet. The VIA686A and B are of course pin
> compatible (or "ball compatible" ;-) ), and I imagine it's difficult to get
> hold of the 686A in 2002/2003.
Thanks for the listing of differences. (I didn't said it was the PCB different.) And that's only those you can notice.
> The consumer revision is not something new,
> and it's never been custom made for Eyetech or any other distributor.
MAI didn't planned to make business with this board until Eyetech has approached them. And the above mentioned modifications (even if it's the parts list only) were issued so that some 3rd party can produce it, and Eyetech (and Terrasoft) can actually sell it.
> > a 3rd party company (not MAI) manufactures the boards partly for their order.
>
> Well DUH. Here I was thinking that Mai is sitting with soldering irons doing
> their boards themselves. Thanks for the information! ;-)
It matters if some 3rd party manufactures it for the order of MAI or Eyetech (or Terrasoft). And you slipped from answering the actual question.
> > No, the VIA chips are not well-documented (in fact, VIA is not an open
> > company, they tell the details only to their close partners),
>
> What a load of crap. If you buy a VIA chip for your production, like Mai or
> bplan, you get documentation. Otherwise the chips could not be used in
> hardawre design. These old chips have been out for years and years, and are
> *extensively* documented both by VIA and a bazillion of third party
> developers.
Even some motherboard makers have whined that VIA didn't spoke them about some of the bugs, etc.
> > while Eyetech can get informations on Articia from MAI directly.
>
> What the heck would a distributor like Eyetech do with such documentation?
Tell it to the betatesters, F.ex.
> > Heh? You just said (look above, if you forgot already) Alan said it's an
> > interim fix, certainly not something made out of fun only.
>
> No, I didn't say that.
Yes, you said exacly "[...] comes from Alan's message, [...] and that the "April" fix was an interim fix while waiting for a fixed Articia S core."
> You're mistaken. He has never acknowledged any bugs apart from the DMA issues
> of the VIA southbridges. Articia bugs and the "April" fixes for those
> were "bullshit".
From http://www.eyetech.co.uk/amigaone/oct252002a.php :
"[...] and identifying - and fixing a small problem with the Articia northbridge chip - [...]
Who speak bullshit here? |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 214 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkemyst on 23-Dec-2002 06:23 GMT | In reply to Comment 192 (MIKE):
I know.
"For All you know Eyetech or Hyperion may of desided not to read or comment here no more
Like many amiga ppl i know."
I said May Not.
I did not say will not. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 215 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Senex on 23-Dec-2002 07:05 GMT | In reply to Comment 170 (LART):
@LART(#170):
No, not someone from Hyperion claimed it, but someone called Gerrit. Since you understand German, I'll quote him: "Du weisst überhaupt nicht, wie weit OS4 noch davon entfernt ist überhaupt auf irgendetwas portiert zu werden. Man ist grade dabei das Emulations-Konzept komplett von MMU auf Emulation-Traps umzustellen, welches auch von MorphOS angewendet wird und von Hermans als Zitat: "extremely primitive "emulation traps"" tituliert wurde."
This comment is almost two days old now and not denied yet by Hyperion. Although obviously several of their developers are following Amiga-News.de and the comments there (for example Hans-Joerg Frieden posted in the very same thread, and Steffen Haeuser is currently very active in another thread). Of course that's no "proof", but even if they weren't, at least several of their supporters read these comments and could have told Hyperion's staff. Since that "rumor" is a very delicate one (remember that and how Ben Hermans has spoken here about the emu-traps MorphOS is using), it certainly would have been denied by Hyperion immediately if it were not true.
@Anonymous (24.27.253.39, #171):
There's no "secret agenda" of MAI. It's just a matter of 1) for which tasks the Articia originally has been used and designed for (therefore the bugs weren't discovered until bplan used them for a real desktop computer with all its varying tasks and additional hardware), 2) if MAI wants to be publicly known that their northbridge has bugs (if bplan discovers them, they can fix them; if Hyperion reports problems to Eyetech but MAI tells them there would be no bugs, they would not be able to reproduce them, then there's nothing Eyetech can do), and 3) if MAI wants or is able to (financially, for example, not technically) remove all the bugs in silicone - especially if those bugs wouldn't be important for their main customers. (I don't claim that would be the case - but in cases like the mentioned, you'd better buy the board from a hardware-developer and not just from a distributor who's totally relying on MAI and what they want him to know.) |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 216 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by AmiTroll on 23-Dec-2002 07:29 GMT | In reply to Comment 127 (Christian Kemp):
Anyone can see this entire post is only driven to stir up the tension except the moderators here. Say what you will about "the name" supporters. They are on all sides. Don't believe me, it's not my site and i don't have any reason to care. Amiga, Eyetech, bPlan, all of them have thier own websites to make announcements if i wan't to get info.
If your site is so bad (and, yep i think it is, trolling is just a matter of course around here now. Even the moderators can't tell flamebait from real news) why do your moderators allow obvious garbage like this to live? Close it, moderate it, up to you anyway. But things will just get worse if your too afraid of offending the "censorship brigade" as Darrin put it. At least there is some guts around here to moderate if only a little.
Anyway, Merry Christmas. Even you pinheads. :)
GRUNT |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 217 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Akaru on 23-Dec-2002 07:48 GMT | One of the reasons I won't be buying morph OS is that I wouldn't want to be associated with such a nasty bunch of idiots. I mean why is it every one[ morph OS supporters] of them are trolls, liars, rude, etc.
Of course its not much better in the rest of the Amiga comunity but I don't think there are anyone more committed to being obnoxious rude, spreading lies and disinformation, troll etc. than the morphOS community. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 218 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Sam Smith on 23-Dec-2002 08:25 GMT | In reply to Comment 127 (Christian Kemp):
You can't let comments like this bother you. You are running a very successful news site and as such you are bound to get rabid - sometimes downright nasty - discussion. This is all part and parcel of the industry that you are in.
I do believe - IMHO - that moderators should stay well away from showing ANY form of bias just as any good news program attempts to do. As soon as you get pulled into it all you loose site of the goal. In your case it's running an excellent news site. So what if people are getting tense? It's all part of the fun.
In the end it's your site and if you feel that it's upsetting you then you should stop it. I can understand how it can sometimes be very difficult to stay entirely objective and let purely insulting comments wash over you. As you get more successful you will find that there are always more people willing to attempt to pull you down - just don't let them! :)
Merry XMas CK - What's Santa got you in your sack?
---
Sam |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 219 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Elwood on 23-Dec-2002 08:27 GMT | In reply to Comment 50 (Mickael):
So an Amiga-like OS is an OS with a new Exec ? And what about Dos, Graphics, Intuition, Layers, and all other "modules" ? Don't tell me they are useless... |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 220 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Emeric SH on 23-Dec-2002 08:33 GMT | Most news sites are biased. Even sites which were the idol of unbiased information in the past are supporting sides today. Ann is an exception, despite of all the whinning, and still a place for everyone - which of course induces conflicts, but that's the way of life. I wish CK and the moderators power to get past the whinning.
Happy new year for Ann |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 221 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 23-Dec-2002 08:50 GMT | In reply to Comment 197 (Troels E):
> He shouldn't have stated for a fact that OS4 wouldn't support MP.
> It has been brought up before and the answer has always been that Hyperion would
> look into it, but probably not in the initial version (OS4.0). Lart started
> this thread by his trolling news item and continued it by a little lies and/or
> false assumptions.
Come on! I would have answered EXACTLY the same. Would I be a liar too? Either annouce the support of it, or don't. The feature list of the 4.x line has been announced already, _that's_ what officially is supposed to be supported, whatever is not in that list is not _officially_ supported. Don't blame anyone for making assumptions based on that list.
By your reasoning whatever is NOT written in that list is likely to be implemented, which is blatantly stupid.
> Why answer, when you have no way of knowing the answer?
The way to know the answer exists. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 222 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Nicolas Sallin on 23-Dec-2002 09:47 GMT | In reply to Comment 219 (Elwood):
They are AmigaOS4 68k :-) |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 223 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by JoannaK on 23-Dec-2002 10:05 GMT | In reply to Comment 217 (Akaru):
Personally I don't like way people write. It does not start from one group or end there. People are having different views and different belifs. Most people are not capable (or educated enough) to make their decisions on technical details, so they have to go by instinct. And some of those people have too much blind Faith in it. (Hey.. it's computer, not Second coming of yout favorite deity or good)
What I like to see are products, working ones, not 2 years of hype, delays and excuses. And that's exactly why I'm still waiting for my decision. So if you choose to spend yours 1000USD by brand (or mere illusion) it's OK to me, it's not my money you are spending. But my money goes to team that makes working system with working OS. And ONLY when I'm happy to their product, not 6 or 12 months in adwance.
Some people have branded me as MOS-Zealot ... hey if I were one I surely had ordered one by now. But I have not that kind of trust. So far ONLY money I have spend to these NEW systems was that stupid Amigainc's PartyPack allmost 2 years ago, and It definitely was educating and eye-opening experience. Never before/since have I been hoaxed as badly on goodies I have bought. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 224 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by V on 23-Dec-2002 10:22 GMT | In reply to Comment 221 (Fabio Alemagna):
> The feature list of the 4.x line has been announced already,
On AInc.'s site? Erm, you are kidding, right? |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 225 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Ole-Egil on 23-Dec-2002 10:32 GMT | In reply to Comment 186 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
And the same PPCBoot. Really. Hyperion make the firmware, Terrasoft and Eyetech both sell the board with it. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 226 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Andreas Wolf on 23-Dec-2002 10:34 GMT | In reply to Comment 74 (ikez):
> I have waited 4 month a cybppc ordered in 2000. Phase5 saying, yep for next
> week, yep for next week. K, have waited.
As you don't seem to know, Phase5 went bust in early 2000 (February IIRC). |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 227 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alan (no not from Eyetech) on 23-Dec-2002 10:36 GMT | To many people on here are brain washed who believe anything any Amiga company tells them,
Eyetech: Sorry for the delay some theif broke in and stole a bunch of G4 chips,
Brain washed Amigan: Dont worry i can wait a few more months,
Real user: More pathetic excuses. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 228 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 23-Dec-2002 10:58 GMT | | Great job moderators, that one goes on you. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 229 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 23-Dec-2002 11:42 GMT | In reply to Comment 215 (Senex):
"There's no "secret agenda" of MAI. It's just a matter of 1) for which tasks the Articia originally has been used and designed for (therefore the bugs weren't discovered until bplan used them for a real desktop computer with all its varying tasks and additional hardware), 2) if MAI wants to be publicly known that their northbridge has bugs (if bplan discovers them, they can fix them; if Hyperion reports problems to Eyetech but MAI tells them there would be no bugs, they would not be able to reproduce them, then there's nothing Eyetech can do), and 3) if MAI wants or is able to (financially, for example, not technically) remove all the bugs in silicone - especially if those bugs wouldn't be important for their main customers. (I don't claim that would be the case - but in cases like the mentioned, you'd better buy the board from a hardware-developer and not just from a distributor who's totally relying on MAI and what they want him to know.)"
Oh give me a break! You are essentially saying that bPlan are so knowledgable that MAI would listen to them when they tell them about a bug in the chip, but if Eyetech were to do so, MAI would not listen to them. What a crock of shit. Any company is going to try and keep bugs in their product talked about to a minimum. That is only good business practice. That doesn't mean that MAI are out to push buggy products onto unsuspecting customers. You are making up fairy tale stories in your senario. You've learned well from Bill Buck, and sound more rediculous with every post. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 230 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by David Scheibler on 23-Dec-2002 12:22 GMT | In reply to Comment 229 (Anonymous):
>Oh give me a break! You are essentially saying that bPlan are so knowledgable
>that MAI would listen to them when they tell them about a bug in the chip, but
>if Eyetech were to do so, MAI would not listen to them.
No, MAI doesn't listen to any of them. When bplan first reported the bugs MAI
denied them. bplan did more research and MAI still denied them. Only when Mr.
Carda was in Fremont and *showed* them the bugs they couldn't deny them any
longer. MAI is interested in selling chips, bugs don't help them, so they deny
any bug publicly (and to other companies too) unless you prove them 1000%
wrong. IMHO the problem is that MAI has somehow currently a monopoly of
available PPC NB chips with those features so they can almost do everything
they want. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 231 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 23-Dec-2002 12:25 GMT | In reply to Comment 224 (V):
> On AInc.'s site? Erm, you are kidding, right?
Nope, I'm not kidding. After all, wasn't that what the pro-amiga-at-all-costs people like to say? |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 232 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by V on 23-Dec-2002 12:49 GMT | In reply to Comment 231 (Fabio Alemagna):
> Nope, I'm not kidding. After all, wasn't that what the pro-amiga-at-all-costs
> people like to say?
There is certainly some "pro-amiga-at-all-costs" people there, but... Do you want to say all of us belongs to that category? Well, shame on you. Anyway, most of us know - except some, incl. you - that for real feature lists we have to go to Hyperion. And Hyperion officially released the feature list of 4.0 only. And Hans-Joerg has spoken about plans to support MP in a later version. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 233 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 23-Dec-2002 12:55 GMT | In reply to Comment 217 (Akaru):
Aren't generalisations great, Akaru?
They let you spout nonsense without having to back it up...
Hint - ALL platforms have their share of loudmouthed ignorant zealots. Therefore, using your logic, ALL computer users are loudmouthed ignorant zealots, and thus you won't be buying any computer. Right? |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 234 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by V on 23-Dec-2002 13:39 GMT | | If the brand does not matter, why is that bPlan (or whatever) uses it on its sites and news-releases? Let alone Amiga, and go on their way. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 235 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by priest on 23-Dec-2002 13:44 GMT | | hmmm... the original post is not "news". There should be "troll" gategory on ANN. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 236 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by alan buxey on 23-Dec-2002 14:05 GMT | a terrible summary of Alans email. an awful and biased news
submission in general terms.
if you read Alans post you actually get to read the real information.
if you just base your knowledge on that summary then , i feel, you've been
duped.
alan |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 237 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by V on 23-Dec-2002 14:30 GMT | | Yes, it is totally OFFTOPIC in the news section. It should have go (and should have moved) into the Rant one. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 238 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Akaru on 23-Dec-2002 14:36 GMT | In reply to Comment 223 (JoannaK):
Well I dunno, whats the point of buying MorphOS I can't see a point to be honest, I'd buy Amiga because I am interested in Amiga being continued, that said its debatable whether it would be worth buying even then. But buying a completely new OS based on flawed thinking from the beginning just sounds foolish, there are OS's far more worthy than morphOS for my attention.
I don't understand MorphOS, someone after years and years of the Amiga community being without direction suddenly decides to do something about it when its already too late, so all they end up doing is diluting an already empty market with a product with nothing to make it remarkable, and damaging the legitimate effort to renew the OS. If they had just put their effort into supporting AROS instead it would have been far more sensible.
Why didn't they? Simple they wanted their own bit of power to make their own dream, and their taking a bunch of suckers along with the ride and when it dies in a few years those people will be left out of pocket with nothing except their won fanatical belief in something even less worthy than a new Amiga.
Apart from that Genesi has changed its name so often over the past few years I'd really try and avoid them, sounds very much like bad business.
I think people really need to get some perspective, in this market there is no room for professionalism, Amiga, eyetech etc. can't act like professional companys because they can't afford it, they can't afford super email servers and great admins, and great support, these companys have been making a living in the Amiga industry they don't have money, Amiga are running on very small amounts of income you can't expect much especially as their income isn't in an Amiga market. Hyperion again isn't a big company they don't have the money to have PR and all these other things that make a professional company the people making the new Amiga are just a handful of people making it work. And everytime people critise them it isn't fair because those people are expecting it still to be run by some huge commadore or microsoft corperation. its not its on a shoe string budget a lot of it is being done for free. If Amiga Eyetech or hyperion were proper companys they would be sueing the hell out of most of the idiots on ANN for libel. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 239 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Akaru on 23-Dec-2002 14:43 GMT | In reply to Comment 233 (Anonymous):
Aren't anonymous postigns great anonymous poster, you can say things you would never dream of in person.
In the real world if you don't like some people say someone who uses slashdot you can just avoid them, in the amiga community if you don't like a group of people the only way to avoid them is leave.
I don't really want to leave the Amiga community but I imagine I and a lot of others may have no other choice.
Who wants to read postings on both sides slagging each other off every day with virtually no basis in the truth either way? I don't and the worst thing is the fact that many might even believe that kind of thing.
You can avoid the more unsavoury people in other communitys, but not the Amiga one anymore. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 240 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 23-Dec-2002 15:07 GMT | In reply to Comment 238 (Akaru):
>there are OS's far more worthy than morphOS for my attention.
For a Amiga user, wath OS to use ? remember that OS4 is not availeble yet,
and ho knows when and if.
>I don't understand MorphOS, someone after years and years of the Amiga >community being without direction suddenly decides to do something about it >when its already too late, so all they end up doing is diluting an already >empty market with a product with nothing to make it remarkable, and damaging >the legitimate effort to renew the OS.
I Think the same, but pointing Amiga Inc. way they want a New OS NOW, after
MorphOS ?
Why not bring this so wanted NEWOS before MorphOS project ? as you know the PPCboards is in Amiga community a long time now.
>Apart from that Genesi has changed its name so often over the past few years >I'd really try and avoid them, sounds very much like bad business.
I have 3 cards (BPPC, BVision, Grex) from "this past" business company and my cards still working very good for 4 years now,i have nothing to complain about.
>I think people really need to get some perspective, in this market there is no >room for professionalism, Amiga, eyetech etc. can't act like professional >companys because they can't afford it, they can't afford super email servers >and great admins, and great support, these companys have been making a living >in the Amiga industry they don't have money, Amiga are running on very small >amounts of income you can't expect much especially as their income isn't in an >Amiga market. Hyperion again isn't a big company they don't have the money to >have PR and all these other things that make a professional company the people >making the new Amiga are just a handful of people making it work. And >everytime people critise them it isn't fair because those people are expecting >it still to be run by some huge commadore or microsoft corperation. its not >its on a shoe string budget a lot of it is being done for free. If Amiga >Eyetech or hyperion were proper companys they would be sueing the hell out of >most of the idiots on ANN for libel.
like Genesi sueing YOU.
If you don´t like MorphOS just SHUT you freaking MOUTH UP and don´t buy it,
i´m a Amiga user even without the LABEL, but you probably only buy LABEL´s.
I will tell to every one again, MorphOS is a OS borned in Amiga Hardware, coded for the Amiga people and FOR Amiga users, if this is so hard to understand go rush and buy your LABEL´s blind Troollsss. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 241 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by priest on 23-Dec-2002 15:35 GMT | In reply to Comment 205 (LART):
LOL! How clueless can one be!
No wait, this silly sh*t is not fun anymore... |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 242 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by JoannaK on 23-Dec-2002 15:47 GMT | In reply to Comment 238 (Akaru):
" Well I dunno, whats the point of buying MorphOS I can't see a point to be honest, I'd buy Amiga because I am interested in Amiga being continued, that said its debatable whether it would be worth buying even then. But buying a completely new OS based on flawed thinking from the beginning just sounds foolish, there are OS's far more worthy than morphOS for my attention."
Ah... Now I see biggest difference between us.. I have been using all kinds of systems since Commodore going down. Including Linuxes, Beos, OS/2 and couple variances pf windowses etc. I'm been searchin system that wouäd fit my needs and what I could use while you are looking for name-heritedge to old loved One.
" I don't understand MorphOS, someone after years and years of the Amiga community being without direction suddenly decides to do something about it when its already too late, so all they end up doing is diluting an already empty market with a product with nothing to make it remarkable, and damaging the legitimate effort to renew the OS. If they had just put their effort into supporting AROS instead it would have been far more sensible."
Actually Aros has Mos code allready (and other way around) so it's not much issue hare. I agree this all happens quite late but at least those Mos core people have been patient enough to make system into usable stage before announcing it to sale to all wannebe users.
And frankly, at least they have somethings that can be called product. Unlike that OS4-thingy that has been all talk and no show last 2 years (1 of them by Hyperion).
" I think people really need to get some perspective, in this market there is no room for professionalism, Amiga, eyetech etc. can't act like professional companys because they can't afford it, they can't afford super email servers and great admins, and great support, these companys have been making a living in the Amiga industry they don't have money,..."
IMHO they (amigaInc and Hyperion) are just total amateurs, they have no contacts to money, no direction and especially no tallent in house.
" Amiga are running on very small amounts of income you can't expect much especially as their income isn't in an Amiga market. Hyperion again isn't a big company they don't have the money to have PR and all these other things that make a professional company the people making the new Amiga are just a handful of people making it work. And everytime people critise them it isn't fair because those people are expecting it still to be run by some huge commadore or microsoft corperation. its not its on a shoe string budget a lot of it is being done for free. "
Like it's been said long time ago.. Losers who have no contats, no tallent, nothing... How long are you willing to support them just because they happened (at dot.com boom) raise enough money for purchasing old name?
" If Amiga Eyetech or hyperion were proper companys they would be sueing the hell out of most of the idiots on ANN for libel."
Unfortunately Amiga and Eyetech are not a single bit cleaner. With their annoucements and track record they would have no laugable chanche on suing anybody else for libel. After all those Bogus announcements it's wonder no user group have sued THEM. So many people have spend countless hours on trying to make free marketting for them, keep spririt up even those companies are nothing but hot air.. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 243 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by JoannaK on 23-Dec-2002 16:04 GMT | In reply to Comment 242 (JoannaK):
Oops.. A not so nice mistake on my post above
" IMHO they (amigaInc and Hyperion) are just total amateurs...."
Should be "(AmigaInc and Eyetech)"
Hyperion have shown their capabilities on Game ports, even though I don't own any myself I have heard they are not bad at all. Sorry Hyperion. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 244 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by V on 23-Dec-2002 16:10 GMT | In reply to Comment 242 (JoannaK):
What's up, Joanna, it's hollydays, and there is a missing non-amateur, hard man there? ;) |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 245 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by V on 23-Dec-2002 16:12 GMT | In reply to Comment 243 (JoannaK):
Oh, it's a bit better this way... Sorry for the aboves. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 246 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by JoannaK on 23-Dec-2002 17:45 GMT | In reply to Comment 245 (V):
I'm definitely too tired these days. If I don't stop now (and sleep a Week at least) I'll end up accidently praising AmigaInc for something... |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 247 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by alan buxey on 23-Dec-2002 18:28 GMT | In reply to Comment 50 (Mickael):
....and what defines os3.x exec ??
your logic makes AmigaOS 3.x anything but. if we go be exec then
i'm afraid that OS 3.x was just os1.8 ;-)
the OS is defined by how it operates, what hardware can be controlled,
the preferences, the appearance etc etc. the kernel is just a friggin kernel.
alan |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 248 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by MIKE on 23-Dec-2002 18:29 GMT | In reply to Comment 229 (Anonymous):
Well, Bplan has actual Hardware Engineers, Eyetech doesn't, so it makes sense that Bplan can talk Mai's language, while Eyetech can't, no offense intteded, these are the facts of the matter. |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 249 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by alan buxey on 23-Dec-2002 18:30 GMT | In reply to Comment 51 (Johan Rönnblom):
>Certainly. What's the problem? I thought this was a news site
I agree. which is why news items should NOT contain viewpoints. THATs
what the posting option is all about. the news item should ONLY
be a piece of info that points to the email held on yahoo page.
nothing more
..if this continues, then i envisage people starting to visit non-biased
sites...be they current or new.
alan |
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| Teron board delays : Comment 250 of 312 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Senex (Martin Heine) on 23-Dec-2002 19:06 GMT | In reply to Comment 229 (Anonymous):
@Anonymous:
David Scheibler told you already, what I meant - that are just the
facts. And so, while Alan Redhouse could just say what MAI told him
("bullshit, there are no bugs" - btw., then why the new Articia-mask
he mentions now?), Gerald Carda became fed up with them, took an
airplane into the USA and actually demonstrated them their
non-existing bugs himself.
> sound more ridiculous with every post.
At least MY comments aren't ridiculous enough that I wouldn't dare to
add my name to them, Mr. Anonymous... |
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