26-Apr-2024 08:55 GMT.
UNDER CONSTRUCTION
[Rant] osopinion: Close That Open Hardware!ANN.lu
Posted on 12-Jun-2002 00:21 GMT by sutro169 comments
View flat
View list
A rather unispired article at best. Read here for more.
List of all comments to this article
Sorted by date, most recent at bottom
Comment 1Alkis Tsapanidis11-Jun-2002 22:36 GMT
Comment 2TBone11-Jun-2002 23:31 GMT
Comment 3[JC]11-Jun-2002 23:31 GMT
Comment 4gz12-Jun-2002 00:16 GMT
Comment 5Adam Kowalczyk12-Jun-2002 00:24 GMT
Comment 6Marcus Sundman12-Jun-2002 00:51 GMT
Comment 7Björn Hagström12-Jun-2002 02:59 GMT
Comment 8Adam Kowalczyk12-Jun-2002 03:00 GMT
Comment 9gz12-Jun-2002 04:27 GMT
Comment 10Bill Hoggett12-Jun-2002 05:23 GMT
Comment 11Samface12-Jun-2002 05:31 GMT
Comment 12Casper12-Jun-2002 05:40 GMT
Comment 13kjetil12-Jun-2002 05:50 GMT
Comment 14Seehund12-Jun-2002 07:03 GMT
Comment 15Jack Me12-Jun-2002 07:25 GMT
Comment 16MadGun6812-Jun-2002 07:47 GMT
Comment 17Seehund12-Jun-2002 07:52 GMT
Comment 18Treke12-Jun-2002 07:57 GMT
Comment 19tinman12-Jun-2002 07:59 GMT
Comment 20Marcus Sundman12-Jun-2002 08:01 GMT
Comment 21Marcus Sundman12-Jun-2002 08:10 GMT
Comment 22Björn Hagström12-Jun-2002 08:30 GMT
Comment 23Marcus Sundman12-Jun-2002 08:42 GMT
Comment 24Samface12-Jun-2002 09:11 GMT
Comment 25adavidm12-Jun-2002 09:35 GMT
Comment 26DaveW12-Jun-2002 09:37 GMT
Comment 27Henning Nielsen Lund12-Jun-2002 09:42 GMT
Comment 28Tbone12-Jun-2002 09:43 GMT
Comment 29Henning Lund12-Jun-2002 09:47 GMT
Comment 30adavidm12-Jun-2002 09:48 GMT
Comment 31Tbone12-Jun-2002 10:05 GMT
Comment 32TBone12-Jun-2002 10:08 GMT
Comment 33Björn Hagström12-Jun-2002 10:17 GMT
Comment 34Samface12-Jun-2002 10:20 GMT
Comment 35Henning Lund12-Jun-2002 10:20 GMT
Comment 36Seehund12-Jun-2002 10:21 GMT
Comment 37Janne Sirén12-Jun-2002 10:35 GMT
Comment 38Samface12-Jun-2002 10:42 GMT
Comment 39Janne Sirén12-Jun-2002 10:43 GMT
Comment 40Samface12-Jun-2002 10:47 GMT
Comment 41Seehund12-Jun-2002 10:47 GMT
Comment 42Seehund12-Jun-2002 10:53 GMT
Comment 43TBone12-Jun-2002 10:53 GMT
Comment 44Samface12-Jun-2002 10:56 GMT
Comment 45Samface12-Jun-2002 10:58 GMT
Comment 46Marcus Sundman12-Jun-2002 10:58 GMT
Comment 47TBone12-Jun-2002 11:01 GMT
Comment 48Janne Sirén12-Jun-2002 11:04 GMT
Comment 49Janne Sirén12-Jun-2002 11:07 GMT
Comment 50Marcus Sundman12-Jun-2002 11:12 GMT
Comment 51TBone12-Jun-2002 11:14 GMT
Comment 52Samface12-Jun-2002 11:50 GMT
Comment 53Adam Kowalczyk12-Jun-2002 11:55 GMT
Comment 54Samface12-Jun-2002 12:14 GMT
Comment 55Bill Hoggett12-Jun-2002 12:21 GMT
Comment 56dammy12-Jun-2002 12:35 GMT
Comment 57Björn Hagström12-Jun-2002 12:46 GMT
Comment 58Jeff12-Jun-2002 12:51 GMT
Comment 59Janne Sirén12-Jun-2002 12:59 GMT
Comment 60Marcus Sundman12-Jun-2002 13:06 GMT
Comment 61Janne Sirén12-Jun-2002 13:18 GMT
Comment 62[JC]12-Jun-2002 13:23 GMT
Comment 63Troels Ersking12-Jun-2002 13:31 GMT
Comment 64Marcus Sundman12-Jun-2002 13:34 GMT
Comment 65DaveW12-Jun-2002 13:56 GMT
Comment 66|Lando|12-Jun-2002 13:57 GMT
Comment 67Don Cox12-Jun-2002 14:10 GMT
Comment 68Adam Kowalczyk12-Jun-2002 14:11 GMT
Comment 69DaveW12-Jun-2002 14:18 GMT
Comment 70DaveW12-Jun-2002 14:35 GMT
Comment 71Anonymous12-Jun-2002 16:30 GMT
Comment 72Anonymous12-Jun-2002 16:35 GMT
Comment 73anonymous12-Jun-2002 17:52 GMT
Comment 743seas12-Jun-2002 18:17 GMT
Comment 75Marcus Sundman12-Jun-2002 19:13 GMT
Comment 76Mikael Burman12-Jun-2002 20:55 GMT
Comment 77Samface13-Jun-2002 06:03 GMT
Comment 78Samface13-Jun-2002 07:26 GMT
Comment 79Solar13-Jun-2002 07:35 GMT
Comment 80Samface13-Jun-2002 07:52 GMT
Comment 81Akaru13-Jun-2002 08:01 GMT
Comment 82Anonymous13-Jun-2002 08:07 GMT
Comment 83Solar13-Jun-2002 08:35 GMT
Comment 84Seehund13-Jun-2002 09:04 GMT
Comment 85Akaru13-Jun-2002 09:10 GMT
Comment 86Seehund13-Jun-2002 09:15 GMT
Comment 87Seehund13-Jun-2002 09:21 GMT
Comment 88Samface13-Jun-2002 10:11 GMT
Comment 89Samface13-Jun-2002 10:28 GMT
Comment 90Janne Sirén13-Jun-2002 10:56 GMT
Comment 91Seehund13-Jun-2002 11:07 GMT
Comment 92Seehund13-Jun-2002 11:18 GMT
Comment 93Janne Sirén13-Jun-2002 11:22 GMT
Comment 94Samface13-Jun-2002 11:23 GMT
Comment 95Samface13-Jun-2002 11:34 GMT
Comment 96Samface13-Jun-2002 11:45 GMT
Comment 97Marcus Sundman13-Jun-2002 11:58 GMT
Comment 98Samface13-Jun-2002 12:09 GMT
Comment 99Marcus Sundman13-Jun-2002 12:24 GMT
Comment 100Henning Nielsen Lund13-Jun-2002 12:27 GMT
Comment 101Samface13-Jun-2002 12:29 GMT
Comment 102Marcus Sundman13-Jun-2002 12:32 GMT
Comment 103Chisholm13-Jun-2002 13:56 GMT
Comment 104Charlie13-Jun-2002 14:28 GMT
Comment 105[JC]13-Jun-2002 15:27 GMT
Comment 106Charlie13-Jun-2002 18:33 GMT
Comment 107Brad13-Jun-2002 21:28 GMT
Comment 108[JC]14-Jun-2002 01:26 GMT
Comment 109Marcus Sundman14-Jun-2002 06:04 GMT
Comment 110Marcus Sundman14-Jun-2002 06:13 GMT
Comment 111Solar14-Jun-2002 07:26 GMT
Comment 112Seehund14-Jun-2002 09:07 GMT
Comment 113hgm14-Jun-2002 10:05 GMT
Comment 114DaveW14-Jun-2002 10:07 GMT
Comment 115Janne Sirén14-Jun-2002 11:40 GMT
Comment 116Adam Kowalczyk14-Jun-2002 12:01 GMT
Comment 117Janne Sirén14-Jun-2002 12:09 GMT
Comment 118hgm14-Jun-2002 14:16 GMT
Comment 119Adam Kowalczyk14-Jun-2002 14:40 GMT
Comment 120Adam Kowalczyk14-Jun-2002 14:44 GMT
Comment 121Marcus Sundman14-Jun-2002 16:17 GMT
Comment 122Adam Kowalczyk14-Jun-2002 16:56 GMT
Comment 123Seehund14-Jun-2002 17:20 GMT
Comment 124Adam Kowalczyk14-Jun-2002 17:48 GMT
Comment 125Alkis Tsapanidis14-Jun-2002 22:26 GMT
Comment 126Adam Kowalczyk14-Jun-2002 23:49 GMT
Comment 127Alkis Tsapanidis15-Jun-2002 00:07 GMT
Comment 128Adam Kowalczyk15-Jun-2002 00:39 GMT
Comment 129DDiehl15-Jun-2002 02:45 GMT
Comment 130Samface15-Jun-2002 05:37 GMT
Comment 131Samface15-Jun-2002 05:39 GMT
Comment 132Samface15-Jun-2002 06:01 GMT
Comment 133gz15-Jun-2002 07:23 GMT
Comment 134Samface15-Jun-2002 07:40 GMT
Comment 135Alkis Tsapanidis15-Jun-2002 08:09 GMT
Comment 136Samface15-Jun-2002 08:20 GMT
Comment 137hgm15-Jun-2002 08:23 GMT
Comment 138Samface15-Jun-2002 09:14 GMT
Comment 139Alkis Tsapanidis15-Jun-2002 09:26 GMT
Comment 140Samface15-Jun-2002 09:58 GMT
Comment 141Adam Kowalczyk15-Jun-2002 12:26 GMT
Comment 142Adam Kowalczyk15-Jun-2002 12:36 GMT
Comment 143Janne Sirén15-Jun-2002 15:00 GMT
osopinion: Close That Open Hardware! : Comment 144 of 169ANN.lu
Posted by Janne Sirén on 15-Jun-2002 15:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 119 (Adam Kowalczyk):
>Oh come on now, I have a hard time believing the petition was starting in good
>faith.
Why is that? Do you know the person that started it? Do you have some inside knowledge that I do not? All I see is bias on your part. I'm not saying you are biased, I'm just saying it seems so. Please provide proof of otherwise.
>If people want an Amiga, buy an Amiga. It's truly that simple.
So it seems. However, just like with Apple clones or whatever, people are still entitled to hold another opinion. Mind you, I think Apple chose pretty wisely (for themselves) on that, but then Apple is different from Amiga Inc. in the fact that Apple themselves host a computer line AND have a larger, more established user base (a point the petition makes as well, I believe).
>I'd like to call some of you the worthless bunch of copyright infringing
>pirates that some are.
That I object to immensely. Just because one talks on behalf of, or agrees with a scheme that in someone's opinion lessens an anti-piracy scheme that does not make them pirates. I hate the idea of error-protected CD's as they don't play on some DVD players even if the player and the CD are fully legal, purchased copies (just spoke with a friend who was this unlucky), yet all my CDs are legal and I don't own any MP3's (apart from a few free ones).
Yet I still do agree with some arguments why such a protection is necessary, and I do respect people expressing their opinion and basing it on sound argumentation. I, however, personally do disagree based on my own arguments. I believe philosophers like Wittgenstein called that the concept of personal moral in the absence of absolute truth. My personal moral can tell me I'm more right than someone else, yet I must admit there is no absolute truth.
Also, this petition isn't just about copy-protection. Actually, I'm pretty sure (even though I hope it won't happen) someone will break the AmigaOS 4.x protection anyway. The scheme will probably stop some casual piracy (like the Microsoft scheme), and I think that is very good indeed. But whether or not it hurts more than it benefits is open to discussion. Nobody knows for sure.
BUT, and this is why I _really_ respect the petition, the big but is that the protection also introduces an added obstacle to the options in hardware for the user-base. Whether or not you believe this is a large-enough obstacle to merit suggesting change of plans to Amiga Inc. is also your cue to sign or not to sign the petition. Signing, creating or supoorting such a petition does not make someone a pirate. And, again, this isn't just about a copy-protection scheme.
>In short, allowing the OS to run on any unlicensed POP board does not make any
>sense for Amiga Inc.
That is your opinion and I respect it. That may also be Amiga Inc.'s opinion and I respect it as well. But I also respect other people's right to disagree and make their beliefs known to Amiga Inc. and the rest of the world.
>As far as principles go....the largest principle to speak of is that companies
>are in this to make money.
Certainly. And if you do read the petition, you will see that the undersigned believe it will benefit Amiga Inc.'s sales and thus make them more money. Since no-one has any facts on either way (just beliefs), we don't know whether or not they are indeed right. This belief, in this case, of course goes hand in hand with the argument that larger hardware-base results in a larger user-base.
Again, as was pointed out by people supporting the petition, there are other ways to prevent piracy than OEM installation. Even if they aren't as effective, they might be enough to close the gap between illegal and legal copies and still result in a larger user-base. Again, that is the opinion part and you are welcome to agree or disagree. Nobody knows how it would turn out.
>Any company that makes an unlicensed board has not taken any risk to deserve
>any reward. Period.
I can respect your opinion on that, sure. Not that capitalism really is that simple or pure these days (if it ever was), but sure. The other opinion is that the Amiga community (and via it the market) would benefit so much from the way the petition undersigned believe that giving a little extra to unlicensed manufacturers who don't deserve "any reward" is worth it.
Someone might even look at it like this: the unlicensed manufacturers deserve just as much as anyone else, since they took the risk to develop an interesting hardware platform that is succesful even in markets they are not interested in.
>Do you people not see how bad it is to not support the companies supporting
>Amiga's direction?
I believe it is far more damaging to blindly support anything. No matter how beautiful capitalism is (and I do practice it, have lived in a society practicing it all my life and believe in it very much myself, thank you), I hope people's independece of thought and freedom to express it will go even further than that. Those I value even more dearly.
>The three companies with the biggest interest in the Amiga surviving as a
>platform are Amiga Inc, Eyetech, and Hyperion.
That really doesn't mean they always make the right decisions, though. Nobody does all the time, even if they have a huge incentive to do so. Remember how many times Amiga Inc. has changed plans due to feedback so far? Like the time when they moved away from the d'Amiga-only plan to software SDK kits. They merit the change to community feedback. Imagine if everyone would've just kept their mouths shut then? Feedback is very important for any company.
Again, let me remind you and other readers that I am supporting here the right for this petition to exist. Not necessarily agreeing with it. I haven't signed it. What I do agree with is that the petition does express a legitimate opinion and that people have every right to agree or disagree with it. The thing I object to is that many still feel it was written in bad-faith, or it is FUD. No proof of that has been proposed or provided.
>Just don't slag me for not seeing that the "issue is in far larger". I DO SEE
>IT as a larger issue, I just see it more clearly than you!
Please do not presume to know what I see, know or do. I don't do so to you either. All I said, and meant, was that the issue is far larger than just some people wanting to support Pegasos.
Jump...
#145 Adam Kowalczyk
TopPrevious commentNext commentbottom
List of all comments to this article (continued)
Comment 145Adam Kowalczyk15-Jun-2002 16:21 GMT
Comment 146Janne Sirén15-Jun-2002 18:42 GMT
Comment 147Adam Kowalczyk15-Jun-2002 19:51 GMT
Comment 148Janne Sirén15-Jun-2002 20:47 GMT
Comment 149TBone15-Jun-2002 21:03 GMT
Comment 150Adam Kowalczyk15-Jun-2002 21:53 GMT
Comment 151Adam Kowalczyk15-Jun-2002 22:32 GMT
Comment 152Alkis Tsapanidis15-Jun-2002 23:23 GMT
Comment 153Adam Kowalczyk15-Jun-2002 23:29 GMT
Comment 154Alkis Tsapanidis16-Jun-2002 00:07 GMT
Comment 155Adam Kowalczyk16-Jun-2002 00:24 GMT
Comment 156DDiehl16-Jun-2002 05:03 GMT
Comment 157Samface16-Jun-2002 05:56 GMT
Comment 158hgm16-Jun-2002 07:39 GMT
Comment 159Janne Sirén16-Jun-2002 14:25 GMT
Comment 160Janne Sirén16-Jun-2002 14:31 GMT
Comment 161Janne Sirén16-Jun-2002 14:42 GMT
Comment 162Janne Sirén16-Jun-2002 15:04 GMT
Comment 163DDiehl16-Jun-2002 21:44 GMT
Comment 164Samface17-Jun-2002 08:16 GMT
Comment 165Janne Sirén17-Jun-2002 16:27 GMT
Comment 166hgm18-Jun-2002 08:40 GMT
Comment 167Adam Kowalczyk18-Jun-2002 11:59 GMT
Comment 168Samface20-Jun-2002 16:07 GMT
Comment 169Janne Sirén21-Jun-2002 11:55 GMT
Back to Top